Please put Savagery back on Shadowy Disguise

Drackolus · July 28

As per the title, I'm not sure why shadow needed an outright damage nerf. And putting it on Grim Focus just makes Assasination synergize BETTER with Herald of the Tome, which I'm pretty sure is the exact opposite of what goal is. I've argued that Grim Focus should have Brutality and Sorcery to better fit it's original function, and I still think that would be reasonable. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it doesn't need ANY passive buff. It's already an extraordinarily powerful damage skill on an extremely powerful damage line. People would still be using Assassination and Grim Focus if it just had the active effect, and for good reason. Taking damage out of Shadow just hurts pureclassed Nightblade dps more than they're already hurting.

madmufffin · July 28

Tbf, I think brutality makes more sense on cloak that savagery.

YandereGirlfriend · July 28

Indeed.

The skill never needed any "compensation" to begin with. It was SSS-Tier and now it's "only" S-Tier. Oh no!

And then, like you say, they are removing damage from Shadow, which is the precise opposite of what should be occurring.

Shadow needs giga-buffs not nerfs.

Morvan · July 28

Well, every pureblade who's running Shadowy is also running Focus, so they're just getting Minor Protection for free from this change, they'll have the crit buff either way.

But if you mean how this change could benefit people subclassing and thus making pureblades even further behind, you're correct, but that ship has long since sailed, Shadow was already one of the weakest DPS lines in the game for PvE, and so underutilised since it's also weak even for other roles.

I think they intend to make Shadow more of a Tank line, which explains swapping crit for Minor Protection and is probably easier from a balancing standpoint to only have 1 DPS line per class, but it does feel weird since Shadow is themed after being stealthy and tanking is definitely not the first thing that comes to mind.

madmufffin · July 28

Making dark cloak not be one of the worst heals in the game should be a higher priority than what random buff is on the annoying invis skill tbh.

MincMincMinc · July 28

I could also get behind distributing the excessive damage tied to merciless to the shadow skill line. Only way I can see shadow become useful tbh

Vaqual · July 28

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I could also get behind distributing the excessive damage tied to merciless to the shadow skill line. Only way I can see shadow become useful tbh

I have been saying that for years, but somehow they seem to be convinced that 75 % of NBs power should come from Concealed, Spec Bow and Incap. That one random buff to Power Extraction and the mercy buff to Mass Hysteria were probably just accidents anyway.

Ergo, 300 WD on Surprise Attack incoming.

Morvan · July 28

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I could also get behind distributing the excessive damage tied to merciless to the shadow skill line. Only way I can see shadow become useful tbh

We have subclassing now though, lines are not tied to each other like they used to be, they don't really need to take power out of Assassination to justify a buff to Shadow, especially since they already just nerfed it.

You do have a good point though, that W/S Damage taken out of Focus could definitely find its way on something for Shadow, that way the nerf wouldn't hurt pureblades the way it did.

MincMincMinc · July 28

Vaqual wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I could also get behind distributing the excessive damage tied to merciless to the shadow skill line. Only way I can see shadow become useful tbh

I have been saying that for years, but somehow they seem to be convinced that 75 % of NBs power should come from Concealed, Spec Bow and Incap. That one random buff to Power Extraction and the mercy buff to Mass Hysteria were probably just accidents anyway.

Ergo, 300 WD on Surprise Attack incoming.

Same, nb got done dirty where all of its output was pushed onto a proc playstyle. "building stacks and launching them is fun"

Morvan wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I could also get behind distributing the excessive damage tied to merciless to the shadow skill line. Only way I can see shadow become useful tbh

We have subclassing now though, lines are not tied to each other like they used to be, they don't really need to take power out of Assassination to justify a buff to Shadow, especially since they already just nerfed it.

You do have a good point though, that W/S Damage taken out of Focus could definitely find its way on something for Shadow, that way the nerf wouldn't hurt pureblades the way it did.

Sure for main buffs or skill concepts, but for filler buffs zos has been tacking on it is fine to translate around. Its no secret that assassination is the top skill line in PvP right now. The additional filler WD or savagery now could easily translate around without disrupting the playstyle of assassin. Compared to something like Lightning Form losing resolve....which was the core design concept of the skill for 10 years.

Alternatively cutting down assassin by removing the savagery doesn't necessarily mean shadow needs to get savagery, maybe a WD or a pen bonus fits with that play/buildstyle better. For example they moved the %max stat bonus to dark magic, but ward is still on daedric for some reason......which is the only thing that scales with max stats to any efficient degree

BasP · July 28

Yeah, I'm not fond of the change to Shadowy Disguise myself either. It only makes a relatively bad skill line even less attractive for subclassed setups. The fact that Shadowy Disguise doesn't work with Banner Bearer (which makes it impossible to proc Born From Shadow) and doesn't play well with some other skills doesn't do the skill line any favor either.

As for the Weapon and Spell Damage that Grim Focus used to give pure Nightblades - it would definitely be nice if at least some of that was added to one of the Shadow passives in some way. Perhaps Dark Vigor could also increase your W/S Damage by X% for each Shadow ability slotted, or maybe Shadow Barrier could give you X W/S Damage alongside the Major Resolve (though that would make Shadow Barrier a pretty OP passive).

Ratzkifal · July 28

I liked the Savagery on Cloak. It's thematic with the guaranteed crit from Cloak and you get an excuse to have invisibility slotted in PvE, which feels cool very on brand for a Nightblade. Right now my NB dps has Cloak slotted. Next update I won't be able to justify it and my Nightblade won't be as fun anymore.

This is a downgrade. Major Brutality would work as a replacement, but I think Savagery is preferable. I also don't think Assassination need that major savagery either, considering how popular that skill line is anyway.

This mess wouldn't have happened without multiclassing...

madmufffin · July 28

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I liked the Savagery on Cloak. It's thematic with the guaranteed crit from Cloak and you get an excuse to have invisibility slotted in PvE, which feels cool very on brand for a Nightblade. Right now my NB dps has Cloak slotted. Next update I won't be able to justify it and my Nightblade won't be as fun anymore.

This is a downgrade. Major Brutality would work as a replacement, but I think Savagery is preferable. I also don't think Assassination need that major savagery either, considering how popular that skill line is anyway.

This mess wouldn't have happened without multiclassing...

It's funny that subclassing was sold for people wanting to be allowed to play however they want RP wise, with elementalist being like the poster child for the change, and they've actively done everything possible to make elementalist not viable

Morvan · July 28

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I liked the Savagery on Cloak. It's thematic with the guaranteed crit from Cloak and you get an excuse to have invisibility slotted in PvE, which feels cool very on brand for a Nightblade. Right now my NB dps has Cloak slotted. Next update I won't be able to justify it and my Nightblade won't be as fun anymore.

This is a downgrade. Major Brutality would work as a replacement, but I think Savagery is preferable. I also don't think Assassination need that major savagery either, considering how popular that skill line is anyway.

This mess wouldn't have happened without multiclassing...

If you're running Shadow on PvE you still want to have Shadowy Disguise, they moved the crit buff but you'll still get that 10% against monsters with it.

silky_soft · July 29

Fix hemorrage to also give minor prophecy. Even to have magic and martial separated at this point is silly. They could use those extra buff/debuff slots for something else or just omit them. I'd like to see anti regen debuffs just like cowardice.

Dark cloak should give a major buff for its duration or resource return. Something cool like hero.

Shadowy disguise direct damage 100% crit chance should be changed to melee direct for the next 1s. Not just next 1 attack. Get some cool close combat moves going.

It's just all so stale.

Vaqual · July 29

silky_soft wrote: »

Fix hemorrage to also give minor prophecy. Even to have magic and martial separated at this point is silly. They could use those extra buff/debuff slots for something else or just omit them. I'd like to see anti regen debuffs just like cowardice.

Dark cloak should give a major buff for its duration or resource return. Something cool like hero.

Shadowy disguise direct damage 100% crit chance should be changed to melee direct for the next 1s. Not just next 1 attack. Get some cool close combat moves going.

It's just all so stale.

Maybe they should learn from the past and stop buffing the abilities that are already sufficiently good and the play styles in which NB already excels...

Veinblood1965 · July 29

Well the fun meter was over 50% for NB's, something had to be done.

LittlePinkDot · July 29

Drackolus wrote: »

As per the title, I'm not sure why shadow needed an outright damage nerf. And putting it on Grim Focus just makes Assasination synergize BETTER with Herald of the Tome, which I'm pretty sure is the exact opposite of what goal is. I've argued that Grim Focus should have Brutality and Sorcery to better fit it's original function, and I still think that would be reasonable. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that it doesn't need ANY passive buff. It's already an extraordinarily powerful damage skill on an extremely powerful damage line. People would still be using Assassination and Grim Focus if it just had the active effect, and for good reason. Taking damage out of Shadow just hurts pureclassed Nightblade dps more than they're already hurting.

Nooooo it's so convenient with major savagery. It synergizes well with animal companions skill line. The Netch gives me major Brutality and resources and a cleanse. It's just an insanely top tier PvP combination.

silky_soft · July 29

Vaqual wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Fix hemorrage to also give minor prophecy. Even to have magic and martial separated at this point is silly. They could use those extra buff/debuff slots for something else or just omit them. I'd like to see anti regen debuffs just like cowardice.

Dark cloak should give a major buff for its duration or resource return. Something cool like hero.

Shadowy disguise direct damage 100% crit chance should be changed to melee direct for the next 1s. Not just next 1 attack. Get some cool close combat moves going.

It's just all so stale.

Maybe they should learn from the past and stop buffing the abilities that are already sufficiently good and the play styles in which NB already excels...

Will have to see if there is a sharp direction change in a couple of days or will we continue to see the same things going on.