Companions skill order?

Liukke · July 20

Hello hello,

I've read around that companions fire their skills in the order they are placed, but either it's wrong or it just doesn't work for me.

I use Isobel as a tank and her first skill is provoke. And yet, when I order her to attack, she still does all the other buffs and things and goes to the targeted enemy last.
It works for static bosses that just sit there, don't attack and are targetable but for the rest makes the tank companion pretty useless.

Namely in the infinite archive, I'd like her to tank the marauder but there are two problems, first the marauder spawns and is untargetable for like 5 seconds (yeah, this new dev feature of making things immortal until they are not without any reason) and then start chasing me. Giving Isobel any order results in her doing her crap routine and being as useful as a brick.

Is there a way to make her start with the provoke?

AcadianPaladin · July 20

I run companion tanks as well. Companions do look at the order of their skills first, but if the conditions are not met, they look at the next skill.

I typically slot (in order): Heal if below 75%, gap closer if within 22 m, provoke, shield.

If I tell her to charge from 30 m, she will skip the first three skills due to health/range considerations, start running to the enemy and cast her shield until within 22 m then use her gap closer followed by provoke.

If I didn't have the gap closer, she'd cast her shield and run all the way up to provoke range.

So. . . if you want her to get in to the action as soon as possible, consider slotting a gap closer to speed things up.

Good luck!

Liukke · July 20

I tried but sometimes it's just dumb...it took Isobel 10-15 to taunt the Replicanum, between bosses being untargetable for the pathetic animation they need to do, and the delay it takes before tanks are any useful there's lots of junk in the fight.
I was right next to the Replicanum as she appeared, as soon as she was targetable I sent Isobel, and yeah she does her beauty routine instead of taunting, tried also with provoke on place 2.

It's unmanageable at higher difficulties because every second matters, and they waste so much time

P.s.
It's quite a hit and miss, that's what I don't understand. Some Replicanum fights get taunted immediately, others have me run like a jerk until she decides that she has skills to use.

DenverRalphy · July 20

That is correct, the skills are fired from left to right until a skill can be fired. At which point it starts back at the begining from left to right again. So here's what can possibly be happening..

The conditions for Provoke is "Used when the enemy is not already taunted". Are you 100% certain that you don't have and use a skill with taunt on it ? I'm not tying to insult your intelligence or anything, just an honest question.

That being said, a lot of players report companion taunts as being bugged in IA (with Marauders specifically). However Azandar's taunt skill Scathing Rune is very effective and is a ranged taunt.

Liukke · July 20

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The conditions for Provoke is "Used when the enemy is not already taunted". Are you 100% certain that you don't have and use a skill with taunt on it ? I'm not tying to insult your intelligence or anything, just an honest question.

Don't worry, no question is dumb (ok, 99% of the time).
But as I mentioned, it happens also at a boss, even in the IA.
If provoke is the first skill and I'm at a boss arena (you know, boss is there, unbothered but targetable) she'll still do anything else before provoking.
My biggest fear is that provoke has a 5m and she'll basically ignore it until she's that close or has ran out of skills.

I like Isobel and I just feel sad about how bad the companion AI is, especially since you can bring them in the Archive and it "would" improve the experience, except they die at the first AoE around the boss that they literally cannot get out of

But well, thanks, I'm not surprised so much t,t

DenverRalphy · July 20

Liukke wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The conditions for Provoke is "Used when the enemy is not already taunted". Are you 100% certain that you don't have and use a skill with taunt on it ? I'm not tying to insult your intelligence or anything, just an honest question.

Don't worry, no question is dumb (ok, 99% of the time).
But as I mentioned, it happens also at a boss, even in the IA.
If provoke is the first skill and I'm at a boss arena (you know, boss is there, unbothered but targetable) she'll still do anything else before provoking.
My biggest fear is that provoke has a 5m and she'll basically ignore it until she's that close or has ran out of skills.

I like Isobel and I just feel sad about how bad the companion AI is, especially since you can bring them in the Archive and it "would" improve the experience, except they die at the first AoE around the boss that they literally cannot get out of

But well, thanks, I'm not surprised so much t,t

FWIW, Azandar rocks in IA. He's my favorite tank companion.

LootAllTheStuff · July 20

Is Isobel's taunt ranged or melee? That could make a difference.

Liukke · July 20

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Is Isobel's taunt ranged or melee? That could make a difference.

I though that, provoke is technically melee, 5m range.
However, I have now bashing bulwark as skill 1, then provoke as skill 2.

If I now send Isobel to the boss, she'll first get closer, then use bashing bulwark, and then provoke and the rest of the routine.
So...having provoke in first skill makes her ignore it, whereas having another skill makes her still get closer before using it...therefore I think the melee/ranged issue doesn't matter...or the game is just wrongly done because melee skills won't work outside range whereas ranged skill can work outside range

francesinhalover · July 21

I try to use lowest cooldown skills first.

DenverRalphy · July 21

francesinhalover wrote: »

I try to use lowest cooldown skills first.

Be careful doing that. Because theoretically, if the first few skills have really short cooldowns, there's a chance that the number 5 skill rarely or never fires because the cooldowns are so short that they keep bumping the sequence back to the start. Especially if your companion is wearing quickened and/or the player is wearing Telvanni Efficiency.

I prioritize my skills in this order.. [Must Always Fire When Available] -> [Conditional Skills] -> [Descending Hi-to-Low].

For example, my tank companion will have their taunt in the first skill slot because if it's not on cooldown I want it to be a guaranteed fire regardless of what else is going on around them. Next will be heals, buffs, etc.. that have conditions because they're usually pretty important (ie.. a Heal that fires when the player is below 75%). Then at the end of the line I place skills without conditions and try to order them from highest cooldown to lowest but that's not always how it works out because I'll make a debuff a higher priority than a spammable attack.

tomofhyrule · July 21

Companions are very sensitive to range (a fact which makes Basti basically never fire his ult).

If you're taunting with 1H/Shield, that's got a melee range, and they'll need to wait all the way until they're in range to get it to go. You can give them the Undaunted taunt to favor starting with that since that's not going to rely on them being right next to the boss before they decide to taunt it.

Zodiarkslayer · July 21

I think the taunt effect is tied into doing damage. If the Boss is immune to damage, it will also be to taunting. 🤷‍♂️
Provoke has a 12s cooldown, right? That means if Isobel taunts an invulnerable Boss she cannot taunt it for another 12s (without Quickened trait).

Also, I am pretty sure that companions will always prioritize the enemy that the player heavy attacks.
@Liukke If you have a heavy attack build, that would totally explain your Isobel's behavior.

Orolicious · July 21

It would be great if the Devs would look at companions again, and maybe give them more specific commands. It would be great to have companions stack on you while fighting, for example, so they don't pull mobs way to the exterior of the arena randomly. Or perhaps be able to issue commands to help them avoid standing in stupid, etc.

Vonnegut2506 · July 21

Also, there was a thread when Infinite Archive first came out where people were commenting that the only companion taunt that worked on Marauders was Azandar's ranged taunt. Maybe that bug is still in place if you are noticing the problem mostly on the Marauders with Provoke.

Orbital78 · July 21

With quickened traits putting low cast times first could cause issues. I put longest first or those with 75% health etc. I try to use range taunt first as well, they gain aggro sooner/better from what I experienced.

If you're heavy attacking don't sleep on Isobel and Bastian's buffs for them.

Liukke · July 21

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I think the taunt effect is tied into doing damage. If the Boss is immune to damage, it will also be to taunting. 🤷‍♂️
Provoke has a 12s cooldown, right? That means if Isobel taunts an invulnerable Boss she cannot taunt it for another 12s (without Quickened trait).

Also, I am pretty sure that companions will always prioritize the enemy that the player heavy attacks.
@Liukke If you have a heavy attack build, that would totally explain your Isobel's behavior.

Thanks for the idea but unfortunately it's not my case.
She does it as I said also with bosses that just stand still. The archive is the perfect example, the boss is there, and will fight you only if you get close enough or attack it. It is targetable and damageable and yet she skips the provoke if it's on skill1 going through her buffs. If I have bulwark on skill1 and provoke on skill2 she will first walk towards the boss (meaning she tries to reach the required distance) and then fire bulwark/provoke/etc.
Maybe it's an out of combat problem? Somehow melee stuff out of combat doesn't work, or just provoke, and other ranged skills are fine?

And regarding the marauders, they are simply not targetable (there's no red silhouette), not immortal. Same for the Replicanum every 5 cycles, she appears out of her mirror in her untouchableness (beautiful word, I know) and once she's targetable I see Isobel just doing other stuff

(despite me pressing the companion button + left mouse click) I need to tank the replicanum myself for a bit xD sometimes 5 seconds or more.

LootAllTheStuff · July 21

@Liukke I think you may be right about the out-of-combat thing. I've noticed in open world that a companion can be standing right beside an enemy target, but they will only attack if the enemy is in the alerted/aggro'd state. They'll just wander around like their looking for flowers to pick. Run close enough to an enemy to alert it, and your companion trailing behind you will immediately start whacking it, though.

As to getting them to switch targets, it's possible that an attacking enemy between them and the target you painted side-tracks them? Some of those boss fights in IA can get very messy!

Liukke · July 21

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

@Liukke I think you may be right about the out-of-combat thing. I've noticed in open world that a companion can be standing right beside an enemy target, but they will only attack if the enemy is in the alerted/aggro'd state. They'll just wander around like their looking for flowers to pick. Run close enough to an enemy to alert it, and your companion trailing behind you will immediately start whacking it, though.

As to getting them to switch targets, it's possible that an attacking enemy between them and the target you painted side-tracks them? Some of those boss fights in IA can get very messy!

I haven't tested attacking multiple enemies while locking on a single one, but the problem just happens the most with single bosses (once more, the Replicanum) which have no way to be mistaken

But well, at least I know I'm not the only one struggling with companions :P I'll make a solo build

LootAllTheStuff · July 21

FWIW I just completed that specific fight for the first time yesterday with Azandar - set up as a healer. I've generally done better in IA using that approach then using a brawler-oriented companion. These days, Sharp mostly just goes fishing with me!

katanagirl1 · July 22

Liukke wrote: »

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

@Liukke I think you may be right about the out-of-combat thing. I've noticed in open world that a companion can be standing right beside an enemy target, but they will only attack if the enemy is in the alerted/aggro'd state. They'll just wander around like their looking for flowers to pick. Run close enough to an enemy to alert it, and your companion trailing behind you will immediately start whacking it, though.

As to getting them to switch targets, it's possible that an attacking enemy between them and the target you painted side-tracks them? Some of those boss fights in IA can get very messy!

I haven't tested attacking multiple enemies while locking on a single one, but the problem just happens the most with single bosses (once more, the Replicanum) which have no way to be mistaken

But well, at least I know I'm not the only one struggling with companions :P I'll make a solo build

I have Bastian as tank with taunt and he works on all marauders except Gothmau.