TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Classes are a combination of Subclasses.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/classes
A Nightblade is only a Nightblade because they use Assassination, Shadow, and Siphoning.
When you remove one of those, it becomes a different Class. You are not a Nightblade if you remove Shadow. Illusion is part of the core identity of what a Nightblade is, just as Assassination and Siphoning are.
Nightblade = Assassination, Shadow, Siphoning
Nightblade ≠ Assassination, Shadow, Siphoning
So it should change the class name then.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
tomofhyrule wrote: »
It really seems like you are the only one referring to Subclassed builds as "impure." Everyone else is calling them "Subclassed builds."
Are you sure you know what the word Pure means? It means undiluted, the second you dilute it, it becomes Impure.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
I like your example.
My take is on the underlying messages.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
I like your example.
My take is on the underlying messages.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.
Ah okay! 👍🏼
Personally, I see more of the opposite, especially on Discord. But differences aside, I hope the community comes together in that sense. I feel this has a higher chance of happening when ZOS finds some way to balance the entire system as I feel it was rushed.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
I like your example.
My take is on the underlying messages.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.
Ah okay! 👍🏼
Personally, I see more of the opposite, especially on Discord. But differences aside, I hope the community comes together in that sense. I feel this has a higher chance of happening when ZOS finds some way to balance the entire system as I feel it was rushed.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
I like your example.
My take is on the underlying messages.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.
Ah okay! 👍🏼
Personally, I see more of the opposite, especially on Discord. But differences aside, I hope the community comes together in that sense. I feel this has a higher chance of happening when ZOS finds some way to balance the entire system as I feel it was rushed.
OP wants pure classes to be strictly weaker than subclasses as far as I can tell. At least in the OP they said something like pure classes should have no benefits for limiting themselves.
You shouldn’t have an exclusive benefit for limiting yourself. .
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Subclassing is literally a brand new term given to the brand new system.
Subclassing ≠ Subclasses
Yes. It does. Assassination is a skill line not a subclass. It has never been referred to as such prior to the implementation of the subclassing system.
Something doesn’t need to be explicitly stated for it to be the case. If I go into uncharted woods with my friends to go chop some trees, and we all go in different directions, would it not be safe to assume that if those friends returned with fresh lumber and a worn axe, they had chopped some trees?
If Nightblade is a class that uses the shadows to siphon and assassinate their victims, would it be a Nightblade if it no longer did those things.
You take Shadow and Siphoning away and you’ve taken the Night out of Nightblade. Whatever you want to call Subclasses, they make up the identity of the class.
You can see it in their Class design philosophy, as it clearly states what makes each of the 7 starter classes. Apply inverse logic and replicate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_(logic)
Nightblade = Assassination + Shadow + Siphoning
Therefore…
Assassination - Shadow - Siphoning ≠ Nightblade.
Y’all are arguing two different points that doesn’t definitively have a right answer. But is down to personal preference and even play style.
Do you consider Assassination a subclass as it makes up part of a whole (Nightblade)? Some say yes because it’s part of NB, which makes it subclass.
Some say no and consider the skill lines more akin to a skill tree, or talent tree where it’s less about class and more about choosing a pool to take skills. Another words, acting more as tools rather than formal subclass.
This may be a weird analogy. Let’s take Muay Thai.
Muay Thai - a class of martial art that utilizes hands, elbows, knees, legs, and even clinching (standup grappling/wrestling).
- Muay Femur - the technical fighter, great fight IQ
- Muay Bok - heavy puncher
- Muay Khao - knee and clinching heavy
- Muay Tae - the kicker
Would these be considered subclasses of Muay Thai? I feel there’s no right or wrong here.
I like your example.
My take is on the underlying messages.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.
Ah okay! 👍🏼
Personally, I see more of the opposite, especially on Discord. But differences aside, I hope the community comes together in that sense. I feel this has a higher chance of happening when ZOS finds some way to balance the entire system as I feel it was rushed.
OP wants pure classes to be strictly weaker than subclasses as far as I can tell. At least in the OP they said something like pure classes should have no benefits for limiting themselves.
You shouldn’t have an exclusive benefit for limiting yourself. That doesn’t mean that starter classes shouldn’t feel more similar to like-class comps.
Damage-Support-Tank should never feel worse than another Damage-Support-Tank, only different.
Subclass or skill line, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that people consider builds that utilize Subclassing as important as those that don’t, and lately this hasn’t been happening.