Pure “Class”

Radiate77 · July 12

“Pure Class” has got to be the most anti-community identifier I’ve seen in a long time.

Lately I’ve seen people use the term “Pure Class” as a means to demonize people for utilizing Subclassing, generally right next to entitled claims that people who don’t use the system should benefit over those who do.

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

Sorry Jimmy, but your off-meta throw-together Druid build is not a “Pure Class” so we should nerf it and while we’re at it, OG Nightblade needs 200% Critical Chance for using their 3 cracked out original skill lines because they are “Pure”.

Enough. We as a community should be fostering creativity and smashing barriers, not walling ourselves in.

AcadianPaladin · July 12

I play a character, not a class, and welcome the flexibility to move among differing skillsets.

Renato90085 · July 12

I think no one want nerf many weak subclass
Like zoo or druid
But zos really nerf zoo build
People main want nerf the 90% build use strong line , beam and assassin
And is pure class not Zoe first say in subclass post?

Liukke · July 12

Dunno, maybe the fact that this is a roleplaying game?
You follow numbers, I follow a character who gets better in what he/she knows the best.

Just like staying in a single class in D&D lets you level up more in that specific knowledge.
Just like every other game out there that has limitations for meddling with skills that are not yours...but yeah, happy big numbers bro.

Radiate77 · July 12

Liukke wrote: »

Dunno, maybe the fact that this is a roleplaying game?
You follow numbers, I follow a character who get better in what he/she knows the best.

Just like staying in a single class in D&D lets you level up more in that specific knowledge.
Just like every other game out there that has limitations for meddling with skills that are not yours...but yeah, happy big numbers bro.

This is not D&D, this is an Elder Scrolls game, and you say, “Just like every other game out there that has limitations for meddling with skills that are not yours” can you name 5 different IPs?

I don’t “follow numbers” and Jimmy the Druid is roleplaying just as much as you would be running your original 3 skill lines. Also, you didn’t answer how it would be fair to Jimmy if his Druid was always 2nd place at what he’s trying to accomplish due to unfair advantages given to “Pure Classes”?

Advocating for an advantage over Subclassed builds is derivative of a need to chase numbers, and isn’t that what you’re against?

Tariq9898 · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

“Pure Class” has got to be the most anti-community identifier I’ve seen in a long time.

Lately I’ve seen people use the term “Pure Class” as a means to demonize people for utilizing Subclassing, generally right next to entitled claims that people who don’t use the system should benefit over those who do.

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

Sorry Jimmy, but your off-meta throw-together Druid build is not a “Pure Class” so we should nerf it and while we’re at it, OG Nightblade needs 200% Critical Chance for using their 3 cracked out original skill lines because they are “Pure”.

Enough. We as a community should be fostering creativity and smashing barriers, not walling ourselves in.

And I’ve seen people demonize those who stay pure! Especially on Discord, this goes both ways! I’ve seen raid leads belittle those who stay pure and ask for Aedric/Assassination/Herald skill lines for certain content… knowing that a pure DK who can parse 120-130k wouldn’t be enough for them. Hell, you could even have Ardent/Assassination/Herald and STILL be rejected just because you’re one skill line off. This is not creativity, it’s LIMITING!

I agree we should be fostering creativity. This is done by making Pure classes on par with subclassing. Why? So that way people can come up with more viable builds instead of just shooting lasers.

Then there’s also the issue of balance in the game!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 12

The vast majority of people running the same skill lines, Assassination and Herald of the Tomer and there is no way out of it now, the damage is done, Arcanist Beams everywhere, In the words of Sheogorath, It is BORING! BORING!! BORING!!! and the worst part is those of us with pure characters are suffering for it, our skills are being nerfed.

Here is a graph that was recently posted on the ESO Subreddit just to show you how bad it has gotten.

Liukke · July 12

Jimmy the druid needed to start learning new skills at the age of 27 and 52 starting from scratch in each new class line, whereas the pure classes people kept improving their already known stuff over time...are you seriously trying to make multiclassing sound more performing than stick to a single one? At least in terms of roleplay?

Can you name 5 famous characters in any fantasy history who were famously multitasking? I like the idea of the great wizard Saruman who also crushed skulls with his mace while burning foes in fire and freezing them in a timeloop of bears and hawks. All while cooking of course.

I actually wouldn't mind if the subclasses were just additive...just adding a feature (just the passives, just something) of another class into yours, without losing anything. It's just nonsense, you lose 2 skills because you need to make space to 2 more...but it just so happens that those 2 skills synergise more with what you have spent your time training in did.

Radiate77 · July 12

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Here is a graph that was recently posted on the ESO Subreddit.

This graph shows an imbalance in skill lines for general use and I addressed that in the body of my OP.

Radiate77 wrote: »

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

There’s no doubt that the top choices are overperforming, and they certainly need to be adjusted in ways… buffing “pure classes” is not the way to handle this.

Renato90085 · July 12

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The vast majority of people running the same skill lines, Assassination and Herald of the Tomer and there is no way out of it now, the damage is done, Arcanist Beams everywhere, In the words of Sheogorath, It is BORING! BORING!! BORING!!! and the worst part is those of us with pure characters are suffering for it, our skills are being nerfed.

Here is a graph that was recently posted on the ESO Subreddit just to show you how bad it has gotten.

and in log any where,95% dps is arc/nb/templar
And last 5%？ yes other 6 class use assassin and Herald of the Tomer

Tariq9898 · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Here is a graph that was recently posted on the ESO Subreddit.

This graph shows an imbalance in skill lines for general use and I addressed that in the body of my OP.

Radiate77 wrote: »

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

There’s no doubt that the top choices are overperforming, and they certainly need to be adjusted in ways… buffing “pure classes” is not the way to handle this.

Pure classes definitely need to be closer to the power level of subclassing though. Right now, subclassing has a whopping 40% advantage, way too *** much. I’d be okay if the gap between Pure and Sub is no more than 10%.

They can do this by nerfing when subclassing. Buffing only when on pure class. Or doing a bit of both and have them meet somewhere in the middle.

Radiate77 · July 12

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Here is a graph that was recently posted on the ESO Subreddit.

This graph shows an imbalance in skill lines for general use and I addressed that in the body of my OP.

Radiate77 wrote: »

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

There’s no doubt that the top choices are overperforming, and they certainly need to be adjusted in ways… buffing “pure classes” is not the way to handle this.

Pure classes definitely need to be closer to the power level of subclassing though. Right now, subclassing has a whopping 40% advantage, way too *** much. I’d be okay if the gap between Pure and Sub is no more than 10%.

They can do this by nerfing when subclassing. Buffing only when on pure class. Or doing a bit of both and have them meet somewhere in the middle.

Original classes were designed over time in a way to be able to accomplish every role, of course you’re going to find better results attaching a damage skill line onto a build over a tanking one when you’re trying to do damage.

Radiate77 · July 12

Power disparity is not a class problem, it’s a subclass one, you fix that by adjusting each subclass in relation to each other.

One build running a damage skill line, a healing skill line, and a tank skill line should be comparative in power to anyone else using the same three categories, and right now they are, excluding a few problem skills. Assassination is getting addressed next update. Fatecarver’s native skill line is a problem, sure.

How is Jimmy’s build a problem?

Desiato · July 12

I didn't want to see subclassing implemented, I expressed my feedback, but it happened anyway.

So what did I do?

I let it go because I knew there was no turning back and got on with it. And it's been fine and I've had a lot of fun adapting to it and trying new things.

Like many times before, ESO has changed, and even if it doesn't change in ways we prefer, we can still approach it with a good attitude and make the best of it.

And if I couldn't have done that, I would have still let go and got on with it in another way because life is too short to get stuck on changes in a video game -- something I have wasted too much of my life on before.

In the larger picture, now is the time to appreciate the wonderful things we have, including an international data network and wonderful games that cost vast resources to develop -- because we live in uncertain times.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 12

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Huh... It is a surprise for me. I was almost sure that Shadow & Storm Calling would be much higher on the list due to Cloak & Streak.... meanwhile Shadow is like... last. Interesting.

I think that a lot of people are simply mad at ZOS cuz they moved classes with no subclassing to uncompetitive segment. It is weird cuz if you think about it, sublcassing should rather be aimed at TES style "custom class" and fulfilling a character fantasy archetype, but it ended up creating more power-creep & broken combos. And now the ones who will feel the "nerf hammer" the most are normal "classic" classes without subclassing.

tomofhyrule · July 12

Its because "Subclassing" was done in the laziest, most broken way possible. And after players had ten years to get comfortable playing their characters the way they liked, before having to play something that they don't want to stay competitive.

ESO's Class system is not the same as the standard TES series' system because one is a single player game and the other is designed to be played with/against other people. Honestly the best thing to compare ESO's system to would be something like DnD's

And guess what: a character who is Paladin all the way up to level 20 will be played one way, and not horribly at a disadvantage to someone who picks a few Multiclasses along the way. Even more interestingly, multiclassing there is a choice, not a requirement. A Lv 12 Paladin will have more and stronger Paladin spells than someone who is Lv 2 Paladin/Lv 5 Wizard/Lv 4 Barbarian/Lv 3 Bard. Sure, the multiclass one has a lot more options, but they had to sacrifice some of their top level spells to get that.
But ESO's system pretty well is "Do you want to be a max level Templar? Or do you want to take the best parts of Templar and put it with the best parts of Arcanist and the best parts of Nightblade with zero weaknesses whatsoever?"

That's why it's frustrating - because the RPG element is gone. The only reason to play pure is because you want to play your character in a certain way, and because of that you're stuck with weaknesses that other builds don't have because the system is allowing you to take all power and no drawbacks. That's horrific balancing.

Most people just want Pure and Subclassed builds to be on par with each other. They want this weird thing called balance. And ESO's combat team's version of "let's just toss the balance out the window because we have zero vision in the slightest" is making everyone mad. If Subclassing had been done in a way where players had to make legitimate choices in picking their builds and not be 50% behind other builds because they don't want to participate, then there wouldn't be this frustration. Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Desiato · July 12

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think that a lot of people are simply mad at ZOS cuz they moved classes with no subclassing to uncompetitive segment. It is weird cuz if you think about it, sublcassing should rather be aimed at TES style "custom class" and fulfilling a character fantasy archetype, but it ended up creating more power-creep & broken combos. And now the ones who will feel the "nerf hammer" the most are normal "classic" classes without subclassing.

I don't think most players are upset with subclassing. I think it's fringe minority. It seems like a larger issue here than it actually is IMO. This is where people come to discuss things they are upset about and people more sane than me stay out of these discussions if they're not affected.

In this forum, you'll also see regular complaints about daily login rewards, endeavors and golden pursuits! I mean....

I'm part of a few large Discord communities and everyone has gotten on with it as far as I can see in those, gf pugs and zone chat.

Tariq9898 · July 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Agreed. If subclassing had no more than 10% extra damage output than Pure classes, I’d be okay with that. 40% is way too much. Adding a decent passive buff when on pure class could be the way to go.

Many people, myself included, are NOT asking ZOS to take away the damage output of subclassing. But simply to give some of that generosity to pure class.

Radiate77 · July 12

Desiato wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think that a lot of people are simply mad at ZOS cuz they moved classes with no subclassing to uncompetitive segment. It is weird cuz if you think about it, sublcassing should rather be aimed at TES style "custom class" and fulfilling a character fantasy archetype, but it ended up creating more power-creep & broken combos. And now the ones who will feel the "nerf hammer" the most are normal "classic" classes without subclassing.

I don't think most players are upset with subclassing. I think it's fringe minority. It seems like a larger issue here than it actually is IMO. This is where people come to discuss things they are upset about and people more sane than me stay out of these discussions if they're not affected.

In this forum, you'll also see regular complaints about daily login rewards, endeavors and golden pursuits! I mean....

I'm part of a few large Discord communities and everyone has gotten on with it as far as I can see in those, gf pugs and zone chat.

You’re completely correct. There’s only one complaint I see regularly, and it’s always about Fatecarver. People. Don’t. Like. Beaming.

Fair.

Yet on these forums, we’re seeing the most unfair, unrealistic, resolutions to that problem suggested. People are frustrated at how overpowered Fatecarver is, so subclassing is the problem?

Nonsense.

CalamityCat · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

“Pure Class” has got to be the most anti-community identifier I’ve seen in a long time.

Lately I’ve seen people use the term “Pure Class” as a means to demonize people for utilizing Subclassing, generally right next to entitled claims that people who don’t use the system should benefit over those who do.

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

Sorry Jimmy, but your off-meta throw-together Druid build is not a “Pure Class” so we should nerf it and while we’re at it, OG Nightblade needs 200% Critical Chance for using their 3 cracked out original skill lines because they are “Pure”.

Enough. We as a community should be fostering creativity and smashing barriers, not walling ourselves in.

Nobody is being demonised, I genuinely don't care what other players use on their characters. Unless you do certain end game content, nobody cares how you get your results. You're getting offended all by yourself here.

Why is it a problem for you that players want to achieve the same level of effectiveness with a different build to yours? It's not entitlement to want a real and genuine choice in whether you subclass or not. Or to want to login your warden, NB or sorc and have a genuinely different and satisfying combat experience with each.

I haven't called for subclassing to be nerfed or do less damage, but for pure classes to get a boost so they get more damage/effectiveness too. I haven't seen many players who are asking to do more damage than a subclasser. So I don't know where you're getting that impression from. It certainly isn't going to harm you in any way if pure builds are on a par with subclass ones.

Having more choice in the builds you can use in a game is a good thing. Not something to get all insecure about.

Radiate77 · July 12

Tariq9898 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Agreed. If subclassing had no more than 10% extra damage output than Pure classes, I’d be okay with that. 40% is way too much. Adding a decent passive buff when on pure class could be the way to go.

Many people, myself included, are NOT asking ZOS to take away the damage output of subclassing. But simply to give some of that generosity to pure class.

Jimmy’s Druid build uses Earthen Heart instead of Winter’s Embrace, and his build is as strong as a normal Warden, he swapped a tank skill line for yet another tank skill line.

Let’s say someone using Warden got an exclusive buff for keeping Winter’s Embrace, how is that fair to Jimmy?

Fixing the problem is not as easy as tacking % values onto under-performers and calling it, because that just makes everything else look worse by comparison. All it does is foot the bill.

Tariq9898 · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Agreed. If subclassing had no more than 10% extra damage output than Pure classes, I’d be okay with that. 40% is way too much. Adding a decent passive buff when on pure class could be the way to go.

Many people, myself included, are NOT asking ZOS to take away the damage output of subclassing. But simply to give some of that generosity to pure class.

Jimmy’s Druid build uses Earthen Heart instead of Winter’s Embrace, and his build is as strong as a normal Warden, he swapped a tank skill line for yet another tank skill line.

Let’s say someone using Warden got an exclusive buff for keeping Winter’s Embrace, how is that fair to Jimmy?

Fixing the problem is not as easy as tacking % values onto under-performers and calling it, because that just makes everything else look worse by comparison. All it does is foot the bill.

Things are already worse with subclassing at a 40% more damage output, and that’s just the DPS side of things. Even subclass tanks get more damage shield over pure class tanks.

As of right now, that “someone” using Warden is at a huge disadvantage compared to Jimmy.

Radiate77 · July 12

CalamityCat wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

“Pure Class” has got to be the most anti-community identifier I’ve seen in a long time.

Lately I’ve seen people use the term “Pure Class” as a means to demonize people for utilizing Subclassing, generally right next to entitled claims that people who don’t use the system should benefit over those who do.

In what world should you benefit for -limiting- yourself? It’s one thing to comment about certain aspects of the system over-performing, but what about all of the unique community driven creations?

Sorry Jimmy, but your off-meta throw-together Druid build is not a “Pure Class” so we should nerf it and while we’re at it, OG Nightblade needs 200% Critical Chance for using their 3 cracked out original skill lines because they are “Pure”.

Enough. We as a community should be fostering creativity and smashing barriers, not walling ourselves in.

Nobody is being demonised, I genuinely don't care what other players use on their characters. Unless you do certain end game content, nobody cares how you get your results. You're getting offended all by yourself here.

Why is it a problem for you that players want to achieve the same level of effectiveness with a different build to yours? It's not entitlement to want a real and genuine choice in whether you subclass or not. Or to want to login your warden, NB or sorc and have a genuinely different and satisfying combat experience with each.

I haven't called for subclassing to be nerfed or do less damage, but for pure classes to get a boost so they get more damage/effectiveness too. I haven't seen many players who are asking to do more damage than a subclasser. So I don't know where you're getting that impression from. It certainly isn't going to harm you in any way if pure builds are on a par with subclass ones.

Having more choice in the builds you can use in a game is a good thing. Not something to get all insecure about.

What’s stopping you from choosing those options now? Last I checked, all “pure classes” can complete any and all content within the game.

Shrieking that it’s unfair that you need to use damage skill lines to do higher damage is a choice, certainly.

Stop advocating for everyone around you to be weaker to make up for some ego choice, instead, focus on what would actually improve your experience.

Radiate77 · July 12

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Agreed. If subclassing had no more than 10% extra damage output than Pure classes, I’d be okay with that. 40% is way too much. Adding a decent passive buff when on pure class could be the way to go.

Many people, myself included, are NOT asking ZOS to take away the damage output of subclassing. But simply to give some of that generosity to pure class.

Jimmy’s Druid build uses Earthen Heart instead of Winter’s Embrace, and his build is as strong as a normal Warden, he swapped a tank skill line for yet another tank skill line.

Let’s say someone using Warden got an exclusive buff for keeping Winter’s Embrace, how is that fair to Jimmy?

Fixing the problem is not as easy as tacking % values onto under-performers and calling it, because that just makes everything else look worse by comparison. All it does is foot the bill.

Things are already worse with subclassing at a 40% more damage output, and that’s just the DPS side of things. Even subclass tanks get more damage shield over pure class tanks.

As of right now, that “someone” using Warden is at a huge disadvantage compared to Jimmy.

How so? Jimmy traded his health based burst heal and an in-class root, for a defensive ultimate? Sure his passives would make a bit more sense for tanking now, but who’s to say he’s even a tank?

Let’s say Jimmy likes to PvP… he lost a ton of damage from Chilled and Northern Storm. He can no longer maim opponents attacking him.

I’m saying, for most case scenarios, there is always a trade-off. There are a few outliers, and when they are fixed, I feel like that will solve a lot of problems.

DenverRalphy · July 12

I couldn't care less if subclassing doubled the DPS over pure classes. My only hangup is when pure class skills or passives get nerfed (sorry.. adjusted) to normalize subclassing power creep. This negatively impacts pure classes when those classes didn't deserve it.

And no, I don't think the term "Pure Classes" infers any sense of superiority, or demonizing subclassing. It's merely a term that conveys exactly what it means. I'd rather "Pure Classes" over "OG Classes" or "Virgin Classes".

Radiate77 · July 12

DenverRalphy wrote: »

And no, I don't think the term "Pure Classes" infers any sense of superiority, or demonizing subclassing. It's merely a term that conveys exactly what it means. I'd rather "Pure Classes" over "OG Classes" or "Virgin Classes".

Referring to a class as impure doesn’t imply superiority?

Recently I saw an OP refer to a player-made class as muddied. The imagery is clear, and while you may not mean for it to be derogatory, it most certainly is.

spartaxoxo · July 12

If you want to change the terminology to something that gives you less "ick" and want to foster community, then you'd get better results showing some community towards those who have just gotten tons of nerfs to characters they have had for years.

Suggest a better name and offer up a proposal that works for both groups.

I don't know. That's just me. I don't think it is entitlement to want to continue to be able to play a video game with the same character you have used for 10 years.

Nobody asked to be superior to subclasses. They asked to be equivalent. It is subclassing that is stronger.

Tariq9898 · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

And no, I don't think the term "Pure Classes" infers any sense of superiority, or demonizing subclassing. It's merely a term that conveys exactly what it means. I'd rather "Pure Classes" over "OG Classes" or "Virgin Classes".

Referring to a class as impure doesn’t imply superiority?

Recently I saw an OP refer to a player-made class as muddied. The imagery is clear, and while you may not mean for it to be derogatory, it most certainly is.

Whether it is or not is dependent on the receiver as well as the execution. It’s not black and white. In a similar vein, I’ve seen players flex their superiority through subclassing. Which, from my perspective, is far more common. Just look at the various videos of subclassing parses and tank builds.

Tariq9898 · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Heck, I can even get behind pure classes being a bit behind Subclasses... but not this far behind.

Agreed. If subclassing had no more than 10% extra damage output than Pure classes, I’d be okay with that. 40% is way too much. Adding a decent passive buff when on pure class could be the way to go.

Many people, myself included, are NOT asking ZOS to take away the damage output of subclassing. But simply to give some of that generosity to pure class.

Jimmy’s Druid build uses Earthen Heart instead of Winter’s Embrace, and his build is as strong as a normal Warden, he swapped a tank skill line for yet another tank skill line.

Let’s say someone using Warden got an exclusive buff for keeping Winter’s Embrace, how is that fair to Jimmy?

Fixing the problem is not as easy as tacking % values onto under-performers and calling it, because that just makes everything else look worse by comparison. All it does is foot the bill.

Things are already worse with subclassing at a 40% more damage output, and that’s just the DPS side of things. Even subclass tanks get more damage shield over pure class tanks.

As of right now, that “someone” using Warden is at a huge disadvantage compared to Jimmy.

How so? Jimmy traded his health based burst heal and an in-class root, for a defensive ultimate? Sure his passives would make a bit more sense for tanking now, but who’s to say he’s even a tank?

Let’s say Jimmy likes to PvP… he lost a ton of damage from Chilled and Northern Storm. He can no longer maim opponents attacking him.

I’m saying, for most case scenarios, there is always a trade-off. There are a few outliers, and when they are fixed, I feel like that will solve a lot of problems.

This is how:

https://youtu.be/oOT1vAUFrWc?si=-EKMt9sbLjWYCqvm

There will always be a trade-off, agreed. But right now, that “trade-off” is largely in favor of subclassing.

spartaxoxo · July 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

And no, I don't think the term "Pure Classes" infers any sense of superiority, or demonizing subclassing. It's merely a term that conveys exactly what it means. I'd rather "Pure Classes" over "OG Classes" or "Virgin Classes".

Referring to a class as impure doesn’t imply superiority?

Recently I saw an OP refer to a player-made class as muddied. The imagery is clear, and while you may not mean for it to be derogatory, it most certainly is.

It isn't pure vs impure though. That is not a popular term remotely. Pure in this case means unaltered. And subclassing means that you substituted in a skill line.

Pure Classes vs Sub Classes.

Impure or muddled would be insulting. But so is stuff like calling people who would like the two options to be somewhat balanced "entitled."

spartaxoxo · July 12

DenverRalphy wrote: »

. I'd rather "Pure Classes" over "OG Classes" or "Virgin Classes".

OG/Classic vs DLC classes is already a phrase people use to refer to the originally available classes vs those added in later.

I guess we could call them unadulterated classes, pristine classes, immaculate classes, authentic classes. IDK. My Warden is pristine. IDK maybe 🤔🤣