Can you please stop being SO exhausting ?

darkriketz · July 12

Hello, Tamriel adventurers !
I'm pretty sure my post won't last long on the forum but it's a personal thought that I've been these last days, nourished by years of play and reflection in TESO. I'll try to express it as kindly as possible.

OK, you noticed that Update 47 has been recently released (or will be soon), that we're currently deeply plunged in a Golden Pursuit event (I mean, you, not me, I have completed it) and TESO being a MMORPG, it requires regular adjustments to work as fine as possible.
And even if developpers are doing their best to improve everything and repair what needs to be, there are still DOZENS of players complaining A LOT about EVERYTHING. OMG that's so annoying and exhausting. Not everyone is in cause, of course, I've seen players like DenverRalphy answering calmly and explaining why some complaints aren't really legitimate, but still, I feel like every player who takes part on the official forums has a personal grudge with Zenimax. Don't get me wrong, I also participated in that problem, I complained about daily rewards that I don't find very interesting and I clearly explained, with calm and respect, why I wish that we can sometimes get a "waw effect" from the daily rewards calendar, but this time complaints has reached a new level.

"U47 will nerf everything" "Golden Pursuits aren't retroactive" "I can't complete them and get the rewards", "stop wrecking the game" "this PvP campaign is a nightmare" and so on...
GUYS. BREATHE. CHILL DOWN. And before everything else : READ THE FORUM to check if someone has already written a post regarding what you have to say (spoiler : someone has ! you don't need 24 differents topics to complain about the GP that you can't complete because you already did the questline with your hundred characters).

The thing is, I love the Elder Scrolls games and what Bethesda does, two of my five favorite games of all times are called Fallout 4 and TESO (Subnautica, Subnautica Below Zero and Eastshade, in case you wonder), but I'm mostly a solo player, I don't believe in competitive videogames for social and philosophic reasons (I don't think videogames should add to the already existing toxic competitive spirit in society and I don't think competition is necessary at all in a functioning society), I've been a PvE player in TESO from my very beginnings.
My main character is a bosmeri huntress, nightblade with bow and dual daggers, I've followed a guide years ago to get a solo-nearly invincible werewolf build, and it works perfectly. Recently, subclassing even helped me be play in a more diverse and comfortable way without relying on the WW transformation, I love it. What I'm saying is : I'm a PvE player able to roll on most quests, World Bosses and group dungeons that I cross, difficulty isn't a problem for me. On rare occasions I went in Cyrodiil and Imperial City and was crushed by PvP players who are, obviously, much more skilled than I am in competitive fights. The very same players who often complain that the game is nerfed and their skills will be rendered useless.
[snip] You're dealing much more damage than I do whatever you're fighting, and I'm not even pushing it ! What are you complaining about exactly ?!? Your toxic need for numbers, as high as possible to the point it's becoming absurd to increase them again ? Quick remember : it's TESO, not an edgy JRPG with secret bosses who deal a million HP damage in a single strike.

"I can't complete the Golden Pursuits because I've already did the quests with my 20 characters."
OK, first : yes you can, DenverRalphy patiently explained it several times in several threads, and second : REALLY ?!? The game isn't easy as it is, you REALLY needed to endure the long Scribing questline with TWENTY characters, the base game skills weren't enough for you to play comfortably in diverse fighting styles ?!? There are more skills in the base game and its Chapters than there will ever be in Scribing ! Why do you even need so many characters in the first place ? I have six and I've barely completed most of the game content with two ! I love TESO but there isn't enough classes and weapons to create enough diversity, I don't think it's possible to have twenty UNIQUELY DIFFERENT characters (and yes each of my six characters is unique).

Again : GUYS. CHILL OUT. Go out in the sun (drink fresh water and wear a hat), touch some grass before it's completely dried up by draughts. Microsoft is doing nonsense with its studios, people have lost their jobs and you're complaining that your favorite MMORPG characters will kill enemies slightly less brutally than before. You're complaining that you can't get free rewards from workers who spend all their time studying the game to improve it. TESO works perfectly fine, it's beautiful, there's a whole world to explore, it's not buggy, ok sometimes loading screens are long but it never lasts, [snip]

This is my love cry to Bethesda workers : while many players seem unable to find the slightest satisfaction in what you're doing, many players are. Again, it's the noisy few versus the silent many. You're working hard to make this beautiful Tamriel (and beyond) world a reality, as you've been doing for years, and I thank you for that.
I have complaints, like anyone else, but they're based on wishes (housing, daily rewards and the return of Whiterun, mostly), but for the rest TESO quickly became my one and favorite MMORPG, and for a player who has always played solo games, I think that's something. I've taken some TESO breaks along the years when I got slightly bored, tried other MMORPGs to compare, but none of them had everything TESO has to offer.
You're doing great, I support you and I always will. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Liukke · July 12

Your post would make sense for a free game, I'm sorry.
As long as people pay a monthly fee and a premium for just a small update (seriously, for the micro island of Solstice alone they want the price of the old collection edition?) they are entitled to complain, especially after major disasters like happened recently.

After 10 years of playing my DK I think it has reached rock bottom, it's a class whose passive only buff very particular scenarios...ardent flame only buffs flame/poison and ardent flame damage, earthen earth only buffs its skills, draconic power is the only one that gives general resistance (an extra minor resolve) and 10% block mitigation.
That's in stark contrast to sorcerer's storm calling that just raises damage and recoveries like nothing, and you get wep/spell damage for each SORCERER ability slotted, it's literally class wide compared to the DK's passives that just buff for the same class branch skills slotted. Daedric summoning is another set of flat buffs without requirements and dark magic is maybe the only that requires you to actually use those skills.

Why did I say all that? Because with the new update they'll kill (not nerf, not reduce, but flat out make useless) another DK's passive, after what happened with update 46 which halved its sustain (go check the notes).

So yeah, I can chill if you pay my ESO+ and get me Solstice

Sarannah · July 12

You are looking at this the wrong way. The reason players complain about things is because they have a passion for ESO and love ESO. Therefor they post things that bother them and want to see changed or improved, only to better the game.

This may seem to be a negative thing, because those who are fine with things will be playing. But it is actually a good thing, as this feedback may improve the game for everyone. Which makes ESO better, may attract more players, and makes ESO grow.

Granted, with so many players we have so many different opinions and viewpoints, that these sometimes clash between players. But as long as we remain respectful, post feedback, and understand we all love ESO, it will be fine.

PS: Personally I love ESO, but that does not mean I think the game is perfect or can't be improved in many ways. So I often leave feedback, mostly with ideas to fix or change things, and with as many facts as I can.
PPS: This is also why I try to help with as many technical problems as possible, so those players will also be able to enjoy ESO.

Renato90085 · July 12

I just want say you're the least susceptible player type..

darkriketz · July 12

Sarannah wrote: »

You are looking at this the wrong way. The reason players complain about things is because they have a passion for ESO and love ESO. Therefor they post things that bother them and want to see changed or improved, only to better the game.

This may seem to be a negative thing, because those who are fine with things will be playing. But it is actually a good thing, as this feedback may improve the game for everyone. Which makes ESO better, may attract more players, and makes ESO grow.

Granted, with so many players we have so many different opinions and viewpoints, that these sometimes clash between players. But as long as we remain respectful, post feedback, and understand we all love ESO, it will be fine.

PS: Personally I love ESO, but that does not mean I think the game is perfect or can't be improved in many ways. So I often leave feedback, mostly with ideas to fix or change things, and with as many facts as I can.
PPS: This is also why I try to help with as many technical problems as possible, so those players will also be able to enjoy ESO.

[snip]

As I said, I also have wishes and complaints, but I explain them (again, daily rewards and the waw effect), I send as kind and constructive possible feedback when I feel the need to, I even bring useful information when I can (I recently answered to a thread regarding rewards in the Golden Pursuits with relevant screenshots).

Someone also said before you that since they pay for the game, they're entitled to complain. True.
[snip] I see way more posts about minor problems and complaints than posts thanking Bethesda for their good work and the amazing gaming experience they offered us (...for a price, yeah), for ten years now.

[edited for flaming]

darkriketz · July 12

Renato90085 wrote: »

I just want say you're the least susceptible player type..

I feel about other people feelings before I care about mine. It's not about being susceptible, it's about empathy.

aleksandr_ESO · July 12

a very high level of generalization.
from your post, it seems like a bunch of kids are against you, but in reality, they are individual and unique players who are important to express themselves on some an important topic for them. You know what? You're doing the same thing right now

Desiato · July 12

Welcome to the general grievances forum!

Imagine quitting the game and still being outraged by everything ZOS does!

I don't have to imagine because it was me 2019 and what a sad state that was in hindsight. Life is too short.

It has nothing to do with competitive gameplay. Most of these players aren't anywhere close to competitive. It's not really possible to dissect it very far because we're not really allowed to talk about societal issues here. But let's just say the things happening all around us are happening here too.

Liukke · July 12

There will always be pointless complaints, that's the nature of any community.

What drove (in my opinion) many to just leash out and throw rage at the devs is the clear uselessness of the latest two big updates. There have been already many voices complaining about the half-assed introduction of the subclassing, saying way ahead of time that this would have lead to banal overpowering and would leave pure classes completely unusable.

Fast forward to now and yeah, those complaints don't need to be "explained", the writing was already on the wall, everything had been spelled out pretty clearly.
What's happening now with the potential U47 is even more ridiculous...it's the kid trying to fix a problem that he created.
This ultimate rework is basically a kill for ENTIRE passive skills.

As I mentioned before, my DK is a digital paperweight, and if you want proof, look at any leaderboards for solo (and group) veteran content. The DK is constantly performing the lowest in terms of points, it has the most useless skills out there and the new update is straight out KILLING maybe the only one that everybody was using.
I checked the other day, the second place of the DK is the 60th place of the arcanist...they are a bit stronger I'd say.

EDIT:
Just to explain it even clearer, this is already considering that the "DK" you see in a leaderboard is 99% a multiclass DK. So, even with multiclassing, even with 2 classes not being DK, it still performs the worst of any other class out there. This literally means that having one DK skill line is like a tumor, and just makes things worse :'D
/EDIT

I don't know how long have you been playing but to anybody who played a bit, these updates are straight up insulting, done with zero knowledge and a serious lack of foresight for consequences. All this is infantile and had been "foreshadowed" by people who have zero knowledge in programming and MMO planning.

So yeah, your "chill out" call is understandable but kinda tells me you are either new or just don't care about the game going down a spiral of "build these 2 specific builds and that's it".
Class identity is gone, you find always the same builds in the random groups, even in trials there are always the same tanks, all dps can now focus 100% on damage because any support they might have needed is now 100% on the tanks.

They cut out a huge part of content, and now they're trying to do damage control with what?
Nullifying class passives that provided ultimate because...because they were used? Turning them into minor/major heroism...that's a joke you know, if you played the game for more than 2 months you'd know that those 2 skills have already 100% uptime in any serious build...damn even Oakensoul users have a constant minor heroism.

So yeah, sorry for the big post, but if I read "Update 47 will turn tons of unique class skills into minor/major heroism" then I automatically shout at the devs being incompetent because that does NOT require any further explanation.

Jierdanit · July 12

Another player who is barely affected by ZOS horrible decisions insulting the people who are.

[snip]
[edited for flaming]

Suddwrath · July 12

What a bizarre and exhausting post to read through.

Edit: It's impossible to expect a reasonable discussion when someone is gleefully wearing blinders over their eyes.

darkriketz wrote: »

TESO works perfectly fine, it's beautiful, there's a whole world to explore, it's not buggy,

Sarannah · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

You are looking at this the wrong way. The reason players complain about things is because they have a passion for ESO and love ESO. Therefor they post things that bother them and want to see changed or improved, only to better the game.

This may seem to be a negative thing, because those who are fine with things will be playing. But it is actually a good thing, as this feedback may improve the game for everyone. Which makes ESO better, may attract more players, and makes ESO grow.

Granted, with so many players we have so many different opinions and viewpoints, that these sometimes clash between players. But as long as we remain respectful, post feedback, and understand we all love ESO, it will be fine.

PS: Personally I love ESO, but that does not mean I think the game is perfect or can't be improved in many ways. So I often leave feedback, mostly with ideas to fix or change things, and with as many facts as I can.
PPS: This is also why I try to help with as many technical problems as possible, so those players will also be able to enjoy ESO.

[snip]

As I said, I also have wishes and complaints, but I explain them (again, daily rewards and the waw effect), I send as kind and constructive possible feedback when I feel the need to, I even bring useful information when I can (I recently answered to a thread regarding rewards in the Golden Pursuits with relevant screenshots).

Someone also said before you that since they pay for the game, they're entitled to complain. True.
[snip] I see way more posts about minor problems and complaints than posts thanking Bethesda for their good work and the amazing gaming experience they offered us (...for a price, yeah), for ten years now.

The bolded part... it seems to be often forgotten that not everyone's first language is english. Mine isn't either, but my understanding of english is quite good. Many players can only speak the basics, like "This sucks" "This is good", simple things they picked up somewhere. Or they use an online translator, who just translates and does not express itself in a diplomatic way.

Often it is not that players do not care about being diplomatic or do not care about their words, most times they just do not know how to express themselves better. With all the different languages on PC EU, this happens quite often in-game. Something may seem rude, but they simply express themselves in a harsh way because they do not know how else to. (Small example: "Sit now!" vs "Please take a seat!", some do not know better, but they mean well and in the same polite way.)

Personally I take everything as though they mean well, but can't express themselves better. As that is often the case.

[edited to remove quote]

darkriketz · July 12

Liukke wrote: »

So yeah, your "chill out" call is understandable but kinda tells me you are either new or just don't care about the game going down a spiral of "build these 2 specific builds and that's it".
Class identity is gone, you find always the same builds in the random groups, even in trials there are always the same tanks, all dps can now focus 100% on damage because any support they might have needed is now 100% on the tanks.

I've been playing TESO on a regular basis since 2018, thank you.
And no, I don't care about TESO "putting the focus on 2 builds" because it isn't. There always has been many builds, many crafted and looted sets to offer players a huge diversity in terms of passive bonuses, effects, play style and so on. It's not Bethesda's fault is players suddenly decided to drop their brain, follow "the meta" like in any other online game (hello League of Legends) and use the same items instead of actually finding their own style.

Again, I have six characters, from six different races, four different classes (NB, DK, Sorcerer and Templar, I've tried Warden and Necro but I don't like them, although I like the subclassing system that let me pick specific skill lines from classes that I don't play), six different builds (one magical and one physical in each faction). Even if, again, I'm a PvE player, which obviously isn't as demanding as PvP, I imagine.
Diversity is a thing and again, if you're not using it, that's your problem.

Regarding the fact that nightblades are dealing damage because the support has been shifted to tanks.... hello, have you ever played a MMORPG ? That's basically the essence of it.
One of many particularities of TESO, that has always made me think that it's more an online RPG than an actual MMORPG, is that you can play it completely alone (as I do) without the need of other players to support you. You can tank, deal damage, heal and support with any class (more or less), and if you're good enough, you can even solo group dungeons (again : as I do).

The fact that classes/characters begin (at last) to become more specialized with one player fully playing a tanking role in a group while another is purely focused on damage dealing, well... it's normal. That's how MMORPGs work. If you want to be able to fill every role by yourself, have you ever heard of The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim ?

Bubosh · July 12

"TESO works perfectly fine, it's beautiful, there's a whole world to explore, it's not buggy" made my day 😂
"not buggy and works perfectly" whenever I see such false defensive statements, I ask myself if that person is actually getting payed by zos. I mean how can you lie about literal facts that much....

Liukke · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Liukke wrote: »

So yeah, your "chill out" call is understandable but kinda tells me you are either new or just don't care about the game going down a spiral of "build these 2 specific builds and that's it".
Class identity is gone, you find always the same builds in the random groups, even in trials there are always the same tanks, all dps can now focus 100% on damage because any support they might have needed is now 100% on the tanks.

I've been playing TESO on a regular basis since 2018, thank you.
And no, I don't care about TESO "putting the focus on 2 builds" because it isn't. There always has been many builds, many crafted and looted sets to offer players a huge diversity in terms of passive bonuses, effects, play style and so on. It's not Bethesda's fault is players suddenly decided to drop their brain, follow "the meta" like in any other online game (hello League of Legends) and use the same items instead of actually finding their own style.

Again, I have six characters, from six different races, four different classes (NB, DK, Sorcerer and Templar, I've tried Warden and Necro but I don't like them, although I like the subclassing system that let me pick specific skill lines from classes that I don't play), six different builds (one magical and one physical in each faction). Even if, again, I'm a PvE player, which obviously isn't as demanding as PvP, I imagine.
Diversity is a thing and again, if you're not using it, that's your problem.

Regarding the fact that nightblades are dealing damage because the support has been shifted to tanks.... hello, have you ever played a MMORPG ? That's basically the essence of it.
One of many particularities of TESO, that has always made me think that it's more an online RPG than an actual MMORPG, is that you can play it completely alone (as I do) without the need of other players to support you. You can tank, deal damage, heal and support with any class (more or less), and if you're good enough, you can even solo group dungeons (again : as I do).

The fact that classes/characters begin (at last) to become more specialized with one player fully playing a tanking role in a group while another is purely focused on damage dealing, well... it's normal. That's how MMORPGs work. If you want to be able to fill every role by yourself, have you ever heard of The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim ?

There are many inaccuracies in my opinion.
This isn't about meta...there are multiple builds, yeah sure, but since the subclass introduction all pure class builds are several steps below anything else. We're talking about double if not more damage dealt and a whole pack of buffs thrown at once from a single character.
You can live in your little bubble and that's fine, that's what makes the game great in my opinion, but the moment you come out and want to join other people you'll find that many things are gatekept behind requirements that are subclass mandatory. Guilds organising vet trials runs want basically 100k+ dps and only 2 choices of sets for the tanks, keeping many out from the actual fun content. You can solo dungeons and have fun with that but again, there's an MMO out there.

And speaking of MMO, this is actually the first one I met that has no dedicated support class.
But it used to be great despite that, each DD brought something unique to the table, I was helping with my minor brutality, an arcanist might have helped stealing some armor with runic sunder and so on...everybody had a unique class that brought something to the mix. Now those skills are REQUIRED to be on the tank, it's all straightforward Tank/Healer/DD with no nuance and trickery involved. Ah yeah, for trash packs one DD wears Alkosh...woohoo the diversity!
So yeah, that kills diversity, I'm sorry

the game has become more banal and has lowered the access bar so much that if you follow the 2 needed builds and ignore all the rest of the content, you're good to go.

This is not meta anymore, you don't need to grind or being better, you need specific builds, it's casual. You can have 200 characters and classes for all I care but the real content is basically done with 2 :'D meta used to be just the niche where skilled players could find loopholes to nuke things, now it has become so accessible that even by sneezing you throw a 140k dps on a dummy, without any prior knowledge to the game.

But yeah, you keep shifting between "this is an MMO" and "you can play solo and have everything", and it kinda misses all the points the other people are trying to prove

Abelon · July 12

I'll have to disagree with the general premise of the post. Even though I'm one of the people who think that nerfs of pretty much any form are not a big deal, because in the past classes have only grown more overpowered with every update, while the game never really became harder... People are allowed to complain. And criticize. And give feedback. People are allowed to be "exhausting" if you wish. We all pay for this game and all kinds of micro transactions it offers, we are the consumers and clients of ZoS who offer us a product. Each and every one of us has the right to complain about what we get in return for our money.

We can disagree with each other on what we like or dislike, criticize or praise, but all of those opinions are allowed to be voiced. Eventually you too will be met with something you'll consider an issue. And guess what, then you too will want to complain about it. Just because the current issue is not an issue for you, doesn't mean it's not an issue for others. Write a disagreeing comment on an appropriate post, explain your opinion, then move on. Let other people express theirs. That's the whole damn point of a forum.

Renato90085 · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

I just want say you're the least susceptible player type..

I feel about other people feelings before I care about mine. It's not about being susceptible, it's about empathy.

me too, i play eso from 2018, can easy got anything in eso,so for me , i hope zos delete daily rewards
but i never go there whining reward post say they should delete daily rewards,because i know not all player like me
and i know what did i say,solo player main play part is game easyest part can use any build done
like i can run my pure nb give up best line (Assassin) ,and save other 2 bad line with animal companionsand still kill anything in 10 sec..if i want hard story/overland game, i need nude(no armor no weapon )
i mean not you bad,but your type really Will not feel any impact

darkriketz · July 12

Liukke wrote: »

There are many inaccuracies in my opinion.
This isn't about meta...there are multiple builds, yeah sure, but since the subclass introduction all pure class builds are several steps below anything else. We're talking about double if not more damage dealt and a whole pack of buffs thrown at once from a single character.
You can live in your little bubble and that's fine, that's what makes the game great in my opinion, but the moment you come out and want to join other people you'll find that many things are gatekept behind requirements that are subclass mandatory. Guilds organising vet trials runs want basically 100k+ dps and only 2 choices of sets for the tanks, keeping many out from the actual fun content. You can solo dungeons and have fun with that but again, there's an MMO out there.

And speaking of MMO, this is actually the first one I met that has no dedicated support class.
But it used to be great despite that, each DD brought something unique to the table, I was helping with my minor brutality, an arcanist might have helped stealing some armor with runic sunder and so on...everybody had a unique class that brought something to the mix. Now those skills are REQUIRED to be on the tank, it's all straightforward Tank/Healer/DD with no nuance and trickery involved. Ah yeah, for trash packs one DD wears Alkosh...woohoo the diversity!
So yeah, that kills diversity, I'm sorry the game has become more banal and has lowered the access bar so much that if you follow the 2 needed builds and ignore all the rest of the content, you're good to go.

This is not meta anymore, you don't need to grind or being better, you need specific builds, it's casual. You can have 200 characters and classes for all I care but the real content is basically done with 2 :'D meta used to be just the niche where skilled players could find loopholes to nuke things, now it has become so accessible that even by sneezing you throw a 140k dps on a dummy, without any prior knowledge to the game.

But yeah, you keep shifting between "this is an MMO" and "you can play solo and have everything", and it kinda misses all the points the other people are trying to prove

I litteraly said that TESO was more a online RPG in my opinion rather than an actual MMORPG, [snip]
Again, there's much content and it's not class-specific, or faction-specific, or race-specific, you're free to play however you want. It's a consistancy problem in my opinion since, for example, when you play a Daggerfall character, you're facing Daggerfall invaders on Auridon which isn't very lore-friendly, but in terms of gameplay, it's total freedom.

And... you do know that guilds are made of people, right ? If a guild is barring you access to some content because you don't meet the arbitrary requirements, you can start your own. This is litteraly the same way of thinking that made trading guilds so powerful and rich that they now can demand gold incomes that would make TESO a full time job.
It's a videogame, if other players are too demanding, play without them, do your thing.

Also, "no dedicated support class." I may lack some information because, it's a little obvious since the beginning of this thread, I'm not into technical details and way of thinking, I don't care about numbers and performances, I just casually play TESO, but the Templar class provides shields and heals to both the templar and the teammates. Isn't what defines a support class ?

[edited for baiting]

fizzybeef · July 12

„Dont ask question, just consume product and then get exctied for the next product.“

[snip]
[edited for flaming]

RMW · July 12

Sometimes people on the forums overreact. That's normal for an MMO.
But calling others whinning children and then complaining that there isn't constructive critisim is equally exhausting.

Renato90085 · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Liukke wrote: »

There are many inaccuracies in my opinion.
This isn't about meta...there are multiple builds, yeah sure, but since the subclass introduction all pure class builds are several steps below anything else. We're talking about double if not more damage dealt and a whole pack of buffs thrown at once from a single character.
You can live in your little bubble and that's fine, that's what makes the game great in my opinion, but the moment you come out and want to join other people you'll find that many things are gatekept behind requirements that are subclass mandatory. Guilds organising vet trials runs want basically 100k+ dps and only 2 choices of sets for the tanks, keeping many out from the actual fun content. You can solo dungeons and have fun with that but again, there's an MMO out there.

And speaking of MMO, this is actually the first one I met that has no dedicated support class.
But it used to be great despite that, each DD brought something unique to the table, I was helping with my minor brutality, an arcanist might have helped stealing some armor with runic sunder and so on...everybody had a unique class that brought something to the mix. Now those skills are REQUIRED to be on the tank, it's all straightforward Tank/Healer/DD with no nuance and trickery involved. Ah yeah, for trash packs one DD wears Alkosh...woohoo the diversity!
So yeah, that kills diversity, I'm sorry the game has become more banal and has lowered the access bar so much that if you follow the 2 needed builds and ignore all the rest of the content, you're good to go.

This is not meta anymore, you don't need to grind or being better, you need specific builds, it's casual. You can have 200 characters and classes for all I care but the real content is basically done with 2 :'D meta used to be just the niche where skilled players could find loopholes to nuke things, now it has become so accessible that even by sneezing you throw a 140k dps on a dummy, without any prior knowledge to the game.

But yeah, you keep shifting between "this is an MMO" and "you can play solo and have everything", and it kinda misses all the points the other people are trying to prove

I litteraly said that TESO was more a online RPG in my opinion rather than an actual MMORPG, [snip]
Again, there's much content and it's not class-specific, or faction-specific, or race-specific, you're free to play however you want. It's a consistancy problem in my opinion since, for example, when you play a Daggerfall character, you're facing Daggerfall invaders on Auridon which isn't very lore-friendly, but in terms of gameplay, it's total freedom.

And... you do know that guilds are made of people, right ? If a guild is barring you access to some content because you don't meet the arbitrary requirements, you can start your own. This is litteraly the same way of thinking that made trading guilds so powerful and rich that they now can demand gold incomes that would make TESO a full time job.
It's a videogame, if other players are too demanding, play without them, do your thing.

Also, "no dedicated support class." I may lack some information because, it's a little obvious since the beginning of this thread, I'm not into technical details and way of thinking, I don't care about numbers and performances, I just casually play TESO, but the Templar class provides shields and heals to both the templar and the teammates. Isn't what defines a support class ?

all class can do heal and shield, templar not good buff can give group
i think he mean is all class can do this

[edited to remove quote]

amiiegee · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Hello, Tamriel adventurers !
I'm pretty sure my post won't last long on the forum but it's a personal thought that I've been these last days, nourished by years of play and reflection in TESO. I'll try to express it as kindly as possible.

OK, you noticed that Update 47 has been recently released (or will be soon), that we're currently deeply plunged in a Golden Pursuit event (I mean, you, not me, I have completed it) and TESO being a MMORPG, it requires regular adjustments to work as fine as possible.
And even if developpers are doing their best to improve everything and repair what needs to be, there are still DOZENS of players complaining A LOT about EVERYTHING. OMG that's so annoying and exhausting. Not everyone is in cause, of course, I've seen players like DenverRalphy answering calmly and explaining why some complaints aren't really legitimate, but still, I feel like every player who takes part on the official forums has a personal grudge with Zenimax. Don't get me wrong, I also participated in that problem, I complained about daily rewards that I don't find very interesting and I clearly explained, with calm and respect, why I wish that we can sometimes get a "waw effect" from the daily rewards calendar, but this time complaints has reached a new level.

"U47 will nerf everything" "Golden Pursuits aren't retroactive" "I can't complete them and get the rewards", "stop wrecking the game" "this PvP campaign is a nightmare" and so on...
GUYS. BREATHE. CHILL DOWN. And before everything else : READ THE FORUM to check if someone has already written a post regarding what you have to say (spoiler : someone has ! you don't need 24 differents topics to complain about the GP that you can't complete because you already did the questline with your hundred characters).

The thing is, I love the Elder Scrolls games and what Bethesda does, two of my five favorite games of all times are called Fallout 4 and TESO (Subnautica, Subnautica Below Zero and Eastshade, in case you wonder), but I'm mostly a solo player, I don't believe in competitive videogames for social and philosophic reasons (I don't think videogames should add to the already existing toxic competitive spirit in society and I don't think competition is necessary at all in a functioning society), I've been a PvE player in TESO from my very beginnings.
My main character is a bosmeri huntress, nightblade with bow and dual daggers, I've followed a guide years ago to get a solo-nearly invincible werewolf build, and it works perfectly. Recently, subclassing even helped me be play in a more diverse and comfortable way without relying on the WW transformation, I love it. What I'm saying is : I'm a PvE player able to roll on most quests, World Bosses and group dungeons that I cross, difficulty isn't a problem for me. On rare occasions I went in Cyrodiil and Imperial City and was crushed by PvP players who are, obviously, much more skilled than I am in competitive fights. The very same players who often complain that the game is nerfed and their skills will be rendered useless.
[snip] You're dealing much more damage than I do whatever you're fighting, and I'm not even pushing it ! What are you complaining about exactly ?!? Your toxic need for numbers, as high as possible to the point it's becoming absurd to increase them again ? Quick remember : it's TESO, not an edgy JRPG with secret bosses who deal a million HP damage in a single strike.

"I can't complete the Golden Pursuits because I've already did the quests with my 20 characters."
OK, first : yes you can, DenverRalphy patiently explained it several times in several threads, and second : REALLY ?!? The game isn't easy as it is, you REALLY needed to endure the long Scribing questline with TWENTY characters, the base game skills weren't enough for you to play comfortably in diverse fighting styles ?!? There are more skills in the base game and its Chapters than there will ever be in Scribing ! Why do you even need so many characters in the first place ? I have six and I've barely completed most of the game content with two ! I love TESO but there isn't enough classes and weapons to create enough diversity, I don't think it's possible to have twenty UNIQUELY DIFFERENT characters (and yes each of my six characters is unique).

Again : GUYS. CHILL OUT. Go out in the sun (drink fresh water and wear a hat), touch some grass before it's completely dried up by draughts. Microsoft is doing nonsense with its studios, people have lost their jobs and you're complaining that your favorite MMORPG characters will kill enemies slightly less brutally than before. You're complaining that you can't get free rewards from workers who spend all their time studying the game to improve it. TESO works perfectly fine, it's beautiful, there's a whole world to explore, it's not buggy, ok sometimes loading screens are long but it never lasts, [snip]

This is my love cry to Bethesda workers : while many players seem unable to find the slightest satisfaction in what you're doing, many players are. Again, it's the noisy few versus the silent many. You're working hard to make this beautiful Tamriel (and beyond) world a reality, as you've been doing for years, and I thank you for that.
I have complaints, like anyone else, but they're based on wishes (housing, daily rewards and the return of Whiterun, mostly), but for the rest TESO quickly became my one and favorite MMORPG, and for a player who has always played solo games, I think that's something. I've taken some TESO breaks along the years when I got slightly bored, tried other MMORPGs to compare, but none of them had everything TESO has to offer.
You're doing great, I support you and I always will. [snip]

Who exactly are you to tell other people how to behave and try to belittle their problems and concerns?

Youre stating yourself youre playing a online multiplayer game as a somo game and dont interact with others really.

So thats fine, great that the game is perfect for you.

Other people who love the game exactly in the same way as you, may have a different opinion on its being perfect, and BECAUSE they love it they come here as a active part of the community, are trying to be heared and help with their feedback and concerns.

The devs should more often listen to their community then just pressuring their path throught.
Then we wouldnt have such a decline in the playing numbers.

But youre nobodys parents and not in charge of telling others what to do with that funny attitude.

[edited to remove quote]

Koshka · July 12

I legitimately don't understand people who want to shut down all criticism just because they themselves are happy with the game and don't care about pve endgame or pvp or things like performance issues.
The game doesn't actually work "perfectly fine". Even if you don't care about balance, there's still bugs, random disconnects and other issues. Some of these bugs persist for literal years, and ZOS deserves to be criticised for this. ESO is a commercial product, not a charity. They are making the game for us, so that we can have fun. And when a significant portion of the playerbase stops having fun, it is objectively a bad thing.

Bubosh · July 12

Very well worded @Koshka

BretonMage · July 12

The forums are often a bit prickly after a big combat overhaul like U46 was (or U35). People also often complain about PVP events, as well as endeavor/daily rewards. So we have, this month, the trifecta of reasons for complaints. It will subside.

darkriketz · July 12

amiiegee wrote: »

Who exactly are you to tell other people how to behave and try to belittle their problems and concerns?

Youre stating yourself youre playing a online multiplayer game as a somo game and dont interact with others really.

So thats fine, great that the game is perfect for you.

Other people who love the game exactly in the same way as you, may have a different opinion on its being perfect, and BECAUSE they love it they come here as a active part of the community, are trying to be heared and help with their feedback and concerns.

The devs should more often listen to their community then just pressuring their path throught.
Then we wouldnt have such a decline in the playing numbers.

But youre nobodys parents and not in charge of telling others what to do with that funny attitude.

Where exactly did I say that I was playing TESO as a solo game and that I never interact with other players ?
"It's more an online RPG than an actuall MMO in my opinion" isn't the same thing as "I genuinely ignore everyone else while I'm playing."
I often take time to help people against WBs, Mirrormoor events, to transport them into desired provinces and so on...

Besides, the critics I've expressed against other players aren't directly linked to players interactions. It's more about players vs studio behaviour and discontent towards Golden Pursuits and updates.

Liukke · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

Also, "no dedicated support class." I may lack some information because, it's a little obvious since the beginning of this thread, I'm not into technical details and way of thinking, I don't care about numbers and performances, I just casually play TESO, but the Templar class provides shields and heals to both the templar and the teammates. Isn't what defines a support class ?

That's a good sentiment, and it was the core idea of the game.
As I said, ESO was unique in that every class could do everything. Each class has roughly one skill line for damage, one for sustain/tanking and one for sustain/healing. In the past this was playing a crucial role, because all your skills could help everybody and the more the merrier.

The templar example is kinda bad though, yeah it heals but as support didn't shine that much. But still, as a templar DD you could randomly throw a minor sorcery to the group due to one of its passives...now it won't happen because a templar DD will definitely ditch everything but aedric spear to do more damage, and because probably an healer might take that templar skill line to do the same.
It was such a beautiful synergy of classes working together, and now it's all crammed up in 2-3 players max, and the rest just follows a blueprint of 3 damaging skill lines per character with no support and dps that skyrockets tenfold upwards.

Just as a mini example, as a tank I provide major resolve (stolen from warden class), minor resolve (stolen from the arcanist), minor brutality (from the DK), minor evasion (arcanist) and the biggest defensive shield ultimate (again, arcanist). If you include scribing there's also some minor courage and minor intellect/endurance. All while also afflicting enemies with minor/major breach, giving myself constant major heroism (yeah, RIP passives with U47), and a panic healing overtime for me and burst heal for an ally.

My tank has become a demigod, why should anybody else use their skills when between me and a healer we're covering 90% of the needed buffs? Not considering the equipment which give me the choice of giving either major force, major slayer, major courage and dumping major vulnerability on monster.

This is it, you can play your multibuild fun all you want, but (sadly) at high levels all your efforts are in vain. You'd be either an hindrance for those who try to play harder content or simply left aside until you can raise your dps to specific standards, or until you drop that specific set if you want to tank, and if you want to tank you need to take soldier of apocrypha mandatory or you're several steps under all the rest.

Am I happy about it? Of course not, I'd like to play my DK and just have fun, instead of following a blueprint that becomes stricter and stricter after each update.
And don't get me wrong, in story/overland content I have fun, and despite the lowest levels reached by the lore (yeah, since High Isle I think they outsourced the story writing to middle schools) it's still enjoyable.
But the highest parts of the game have been in my opinion the most scripted of all time...I could happily do serious trials with my DK, my 83k dps was more than enough, now it will be laughed upon, despite the content being the same :'D

Askys94 · July 12

@darkriketz

[snip]
I got almost 5000 hours in this game now, 20 characters all lvl 50, maxed crafting lines and so on. but i'm still enjoying myself.

The PVP have been dead for so long, a few regulars but no one seemed to enjoy themself. Was a game of Who had the biggest ball wearing some of the like... 5 meta sets.

then vengeance came, completely shook it all up, i saw old timers and new having fun, big battles where either side could win, and a constantly moving game. And that was with just class skills.

And then the complaints rolled in which i feel narrowed down to 3 things "I don't like change" to bad? "There's no identity or customization!" Its a test, congrats next test we got weapon and some guild skills, next test maybe we get some limited sets

or "Buhu i cant ball group a tower for hours till peapol get so bored they log of and i can claim victory" [snip]

ESO's pvp has a lot of cool ideas, but lets be honest, its awful. So bring fourth the vengeance! BURN IT ALL DOWN! >:D and then, we rebuild it from the ashes better then before!

The other part i find is a source of alot of complaints is late game Trial's and such. Mainly since its also alot of "You have to wear one of these half a dozen sets, and you have to stand here do that at this time and nothing else" i used to tank in trials, it was the worst experience i ever done. Not because it was hard, or we didn't make it.... but because everyone was like "Oh you cant use that set! you throwing! gg we gonna lose.

And then i solo tank the *** out of it and we apparently beat the run in record time for that group >:3 Old Tormentor was fun...
but somehow peapol still complained.....

Yes, some complaints are valid, im not a fan of the new Season pass thing, im not a fan of certain skill changes, and how eso is constantly nerfing, instead buffing some of the old "Weak sets" because some of them have such cool effects. But a cool effect cant justify doing like 50% less then any other sets. Or the state of certain stuff, like my poor WW's ;-;

All in all, [snip] and doomsday saying that ESO is dead, it was there when i started over 6 years ago, still here today.

At-least there is enough sweetrolls to drown it all out.

[edited for flaming]

Iriidius · July 12

It is like a swimmer liking hot water notswimmer saying:"Nobody should complain the swimming pool is too hot nor should it be coolded down but rather heated even more because I do not get burned/cooked/harmed so nobody does."

Plusscher · July 12

darkriketz wrote: »

TESO works perfectly fine, it's beautiful, there's a whole world to explore, it's not buggy,

Then I might just have been having a skooma induced fever dream since u46 hit live (and PTS back in April for that matter) that the class I have been playing for forever is just nonfunctional and is currently unplayable because of a bug, a paid class mind you, necromancer.

Yes okay, there are bugs that are like "yeah whatever it's a bug, happens", but ESO has several bugs that make the game unplayable. Any content you do, it doesn't have to be group/endgame, it can be solo as well. If you wish I can list out all the wonderful experiences (both group and solo) I had with bugs and how much my account suffered because of them.

And do you know why we complain? Because we want the game to be better to do better, so we can enjoy it and love it again. Also the argument "if you don't like just play something else" is so utterly flawed. Yes let me leave years of time input, emotional input, financial input, the friends I made along the way, etc just because there are a handful of stuff I hate currently and some I wish to be fixed (which I do comment about on forums, yes).

Iriidius · July 12

Koshka wrote: »

I legitimately don't understand people who want to shut down all criticism just because they themselves are happy with the game and don't care about pve endgame or pvp or things like performance issues.
The game doesn't actually work "perfectly fine". Even if you don't care about balance, there's still bugs, random disconnects and other issues. Some of these bugs persist for literal years, and ZOS deserves to be criticised for this. ESO is a commercial product, not a charity. They are making the game for us, so that we can have fun. And when a significant portion of the playerbase stops having fun, it is objectively a bad thing.

As they are not affected by the changes they would also not be affected by the changes not happening.
They could decide to not read the critic and not waste time complaining about it but seems like ZOS and other critics should not be allowed to read the critic either.