Please just nerf Fatecarver.

AmishDefector · July 10

Its easy to counter in pvp, just move left or right of the person beaming and keep moving. Most of the ticks will miss. So there is no need to nerf it.

Its good in pve. Who cares? Let it be great in pve. Its computers and robots. It makes harder content more accessible for a broader player base. It requires aiming and positioning to get the most out of it.

Look at bringing less used skill lines up to beams power instead.

MashmalloMan · July 10

AmishDefector wrote: »

Its easy to counter in pvp, just move left or right of the person beaming and keep moving. Most of the ticks will miss. So there is no need to nerf it.

Its good in pve. Who cares? Let it be great in pve. Its computers and robots. It makes harder content more accessible for a broader player base. It requires aiming and positioning to get the most out of it.

Look at bringing less used skill lines up to beams power instead.

There is no reasonable way to bring up cleave damage to the absolute monstrosity that Beam is at. That is the underlying problem here. There is for sure a ton of buffs that should go to underused skill lines, especially the aoe dps ones, but leaving Beam in the state its in will never allow the other classes to meet it. Even builds that can deal more single target dps are only ahead by a small margin that they give up too much cleave to make it worthwhile.

No one has or will ever complain about the skill in PVP. In PVE, it's quite boring to have 21 skill lines to choose from, then be forced into 1 every time because nothing comes close or will ever come close even with buffs. Your argument is acting as if this is a single player game, but it's an MMORPG with an emphasis on Role Playing and Massive Multiplayer. I'm not saying I'm a "role player", but we all come to this game for the progression, loot, world, multiplayer, etc, etc. Even in PVE against "bots" as you put it, we seek to be as competitive as possible while also playing the way we find most enjoyable.

The gap between the ease of use, dps ceiling, and cleave that Beam offers against pretty much any other skill setup has overshadowed them so much that you feel like a detriment to your team by using them. It needs to be brought down a peg, mostly in cleave, which imo is easy to solve by just adding this:

"Every enemy beyond the first takes -15% less damage up to a cap of 55% damage done."

This is how it would look, or at least some form of it with possibly different values. The idea is the important part.

100%
85%
70%
55%
55%
55%
0%

Now you've created a situation where it still deals great cleave but at a lesser value that continues to provide the same single target damage it did previously.

At that point, they can start buffing cleave skills like Ash Cloud, Lightning Splash, Spear Shard, Barrage, Blade Cloak, Blockade, Volley, Stampede, Winter's Revenge, etc. All of these are undervalued, abandoned, weak, and don't have a major effect on pvp where they're easy to avoid. They were previously great tools for balancing classes from a pve perspective, but this was lost along the way with update 35 and skill standards.

GloatingSwine · July 10

MashmalloMan wrote: »

There is no reasonable way to bring up cleave damage to the absolute monstrosity that Beam is at. That is the underlying problem here. There is for sure a ton of buffs that should go to underused skill lines, especially the aoe dps ones, but leaving Beam in the state its in will never allow the other classes to meet it. Even builds that can deal more single target dps are only ahead by a small margin that they give up too much cleave to make it worthwhile.

Yeah, this is why I think the change the world needs is for the crux bonus damage on Fatecarver to apply in a more limited fashion. Either only to the primary target (closest/first hit) or in a small AoE from that so you still benefit from clumping enemies rather than everything everywhere all at once.

MashmalloMan · July 10

GloatingSwine wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

There is no reasonable way to bring up cleave damage to the absolute monstrosity that Beam is at. That is the underlying problem here. There is for sure a ton of buffs that should go to underused skill lines, especially the aoe dps ones, but leaving Beam in the state its in will never allow the other classes to meet it. Even builds that can deal more single target dps are only ahead by a small margin that they give up too much cleave to make it worthwhile.

Yeah, this is why I think the change the world needs is for the crux bonus damage on Fatecarver to apply in a more limited fashion. Either only to the primary target (closest/first hit) or in a small AoE from that so you still benefit from clumping enemies rather than everything everywhere all at once.

That's actually a pretty great idea if implementing a damage reduction on per enemy hit is too difficult for the server. Just applying the crux spent buff to your first enemy hit means the remaining 5 are taking half the damage which is effectively a similar result. A small aoe of 5m should be even easier for the server without requiring a single target check at all, it's essentially just a temporary Blade Cloak based on crux spent.

I'm not a coder, but I imagine those alternative solutions are more performative and thus more likely to make it to the game.

GloatingSwine · July 10

The server does single target checks for area skills all the time, like for applying your weapon enchant in things like Blockade.

So it knows which the "primary target" is (it's the closest one to the caster at the time of the check), so if you just bundle up the crux damage into a tick that happens once a second on the primary target and has a 3m AoE centred on that target you still get your cleave if you work for it but you can't get it on the whole beam all the time.

randconfig · July 10

AmishDefector wrote: »

Its easy to counter in pvp, just move left or right of the person beaming and keep moving. Most of the ticks will miss. So there is no need to nerf it.

Its good in pve. Who cares? Let it be great in pve. Its computers and robots. It makes harder content more accessible for a broader player base. It requires aiming and positioning to get the most out of it.

Look at bringing less used skill lines up to beams power instead.

You're speaking as though you don't play Arcanist. All they have is literally the beam and the class script, it's the most unfun class in the game after this change since subclassing already gave everyone else the beam (and everyone uses it), but also because the class script allowed for Arcanists to use subclassing and scribing without losing access to their own class passives.

Without bannerbearer crux generation, Arcanist relies even more heavily on the armor buff that generates crux, and inspiried scholarship that generates crux, so you can maybe swap a single skill line out, but even then you cannot use the other class's skills since you need to generate and consume crux for any of your class passives to work...

It's just such a stupid decision, ontop of continuing to ignore bugs for other Arcanist abilities that aren't the beam like Tentacular Dread's bugged crux interaction with Inspiried Scholarship....

GloatingSwine · July 10

randconfig wrote: »

You're speaking as though you don't play Arcanist. All they have is literally the beam and the class script, it's the most unfun class in the game after this change since subclassing already gave everyone else the beam (and everyone uses it), but also because the class script allowed for Arcanists to use subclassing and scribing without losing access to their own class passives.

That's why I don't play Arcanist. I have one that got set up for soloing dungeons but frankly for anything less than dungeon solos it's just such a boring class to play.

novapixel · July 10

While I wouldn't say "no" to any nerfs to beam cleave, I feel like an overall damage nerf that kicks fatecarver out of single target entirely and makes it only worth using for cleave makes more sense. Arcanist, as well as "any other class in the game" (can't forget those!!) has other options for single target already, might as well have the big beam focus on AoE.

T0kii · July 11

I believe that completely nerfing Fatecarver — for example by reducing its damage to secondary targets or limiting Crux bonuses to a single enemy — is not a good solution.
Changes like these would noticeably affect casual players, who may lose the enjoyment they get from playing Arcanist, and could potentially be discouraged from continuing to play ESO.

Personally, I enjoy playing Arcanist, even mixing in passives from Aedric Spear and Storm Calling, because it’s simply fun.
However, if the beam (Fatecarver) creates a serious imbalance that disadvantages other classes, then it’s clear that adjustments are needed — but they must not destroy what makes the class enjoyable.

Suggested Balance Options for Fatecarver
These ideas aim to keep the skill enjoyable and accessible for casual players, while offering potential solutions to the current imbalance:

1. Add a Cooldown
Introduce a 4–5 second cooldown to Fatecarver, similar to how abilities like Trample work.
This would prevent constant spamming.

2. Introduce Spam Penalties
Instead of a cooldown, using Fatecarver repeatedly could apply a penalty, such as:
A knockback effect when the skill is used too frequently
Or, in a more aggressive version, passive damage dealt to the player during sustained use

3. Revert to Update 35 (U35) Parameters
Reverting Fatecarver to its Update 35 state — slightly lower damage and cost — might help restore balance.
It’s unclear why the damage was increased later on, but returning to previous values could be a reasonable compromise.

4. Add a Charge Time
A 2–3 second charge time before the beam activates would make the skill less reactive and reduce its potential for spam.
This change would also make it more manageable in PvP, where players could see the attack coming and respond accordingly.

5. Implement a DPS Cap
Placing a DPS cap on Fatecarver could prevent it from outperforming other skills at high levels.
Casual players wouldn’t be affected, as they likely wouldn’t reach the cap, but it would help balance top-end content.

6. Crux-Dependent Usage and Basic Attack
Only allow the Fatecarver to activate when the player has 3 Crux.
If the player has 0–2 Crux, the skill would instead fire a basic, low-damage projectile (similar to a Watchling’s attack).
This change would reward proper Crux management and reduce burst potential without removing the skill altogether.

7. Add a Similar Skill for Other Classes
A more extreme idea would be to add an equivalent skill to other classes.
This would level the playing field across all classes, though it may significantly reduce class identity and make content too easy.
Not the most balanced solution, but it’s an option worth mentioning.

8. Reduce Fatecarver Damage in PvP Only
Apply a PvP-only damage reduction to Fatecarver.
This would allow the skill to retain its full power in PvE while reducing its overwhelming impact in player-versus-player situations.
This could be a good starting point, with future adjustments based on community feedback. If something is taken away, it’s fair to consider giving something back to keep the class attractive.

Also, the Crux generation every 5 seconds should be put back on the class mastery, because if someone doesn’t use Fatecarver but prefers using Tentacular Dread and really likes Shield Throw with class mastery, they currently can’t generate Crux.

Sorry if my English isn’t perfect — it’s not my native language, I’m French.

MashmalloMan · July 11

T0kii wrote: »

Add a Cooldown

Introduce Spam Penalties

Revert to Update 35 (U35) Parameters

Add a Charge Time

Implement a DPS Cap

Crux-Dependent Usage and Basic Attack

Add a Similar Skill for Other Classes

Reduce Fatecarver Damage in PvP Only

No one likes cooldowns, it's one of the reasons this game works so well because abilities are available based on the situation and your resources, not a set cooldown. We have ultimates for cooldowns.
Knocking back or hurting the player for using their skill before it was ready sounds hilariously elitest on a class that was designed to be very new player friendly. Crux is easy to engage with and while it provides big bonuses for things like Beam, it's not so punishing as to hit or hurt the player when they mess up. They would never do this.
Maybe. I mean there was nothing wrong with it, but it still would be a cleave machine. The gap between single target builds or middle ground ones vs beam is so negligible it's never worth it, so this could solve it, but I think most people would be more upset about having their total beam damage reduced than just having a small penalty to targets you're not primarly focussed on.
Charge time and cooldown as discussed, really not good. Players would hate it. Pvp is fine, no one complains about beam being strong in pvp because they're sitting ducks, easy to counter, easy to avoid. The issue is in pve build diversity.
A cap on just beam seems counter intutive, a cap on all builds is a potential solution many have suggested, but many have pushed back on because it removes the skill ceiling players want to strive for. Given the fact that this game doesn't have very much vertical progression, a big factor is improving your skill, and conquering hard content.
Again, ZOS specifically designed Arcanist and crux to be rewarding, but not overly punishing. Yeah your DPS is lower if you don't have max crux, but the ability is still decent on its own without a stack. This is how skills like Bound Armaments work, you want to cast it at 4 stacks, but casting it at 3 stacks just means 25% less damage and you're 1 second closer to your next 4 stacks. They also added double stacks to that ability in an effort to make them less punishing, that is the direction they're moving, not the opposite.
This requires a ton of developement time to accomplish that wouldn't make sense from an investment standpoint. Why make 6 class aoe spammables at that level killing their class dynamics and identities instead of just addressing the root cause, Beam. Yes, other classes need buffs in their cleave department due to update 35 mostly, but the amount of buffing you'd need to do would be too much to the point where their overall single target dps would get so high, you'd also need to buff Arcanist in single target to match it. Brand new skills wouldn't fit anywhere, it would be reworks to existing skills.
Beam is not an issue in pvp, it's pve. It's perfectly fine in that environment because there is counterplay and real humans know how to move where as pve bots do not. You become a sitting duck that can be interupptted out of the cast and you actually need to aim at moving targets.

I kinda touched on it above in a few points, but how are any of these mild to wild ideas any better than a simple nerf to the cleave damage beam deals to address the reason why it's become so popular despite other builds being able to output more dps? The only 1 I think I could see happening is point 3, but honestly their single target dps isn't a problem and you'd just be making it worse in an effort to lower cleave too, why not just only lower cleave?

On the other hand, maybe a class that is primarily aoe, should deal considerably less single target dps than other single target classes. Thats typically how other MMO's work, different classes are good at different things. I just don't think people would be too thrilled about that option.

T0kii · July 11

MashmalloMan wrote: »

T0kii wrote: »

Add a Cooldown

Introduce Spam Penalties

Revert to Update 35 (U35) Parameters

Add a Charge Time

Implement a DPS Cap

Crux-Dependent Usage and Basic Attack

Add a Similar Skill for Other Classes

Reduce Fatecarver Damage in PvP Only

No one likes cooldowns, it's one of the reasons this game works so well because abilities are available based on the situation and your resources, not a set cooldown. We have ultimates for cooldowns.

Knocking back or hurting the player for using their skill before it was ready sounds hilariously elitest on a class that was designed to be very new player friendly. Crux is easy to engage with and while it provides big bonuses for things like Beam, it's not so punishing as to hit or hurt the player when they mess up. They would never do this.

Maybe. I mean there was nothing wrong with it, but it still would be a cleave machine. The gap between single target builds or middle ground ones vs beam is so negligible it's never worth it, so this could solve it, but I think most people would be more upset about having their total beam damage reduced than just having a small penalty to targets you're not primarly focussed on.

Charge time and cooldown as discussed, really not good. Players would hate it. Pvp is fine, no one complains about beam being strong in pvp because they're sitting ducks, easy to counter, easy to avoid. The issue is in pve build diversity.

A cap on just beam seems counter intutive, a cap on all builds is a potential solution many have suggested, but many have pushed back on because it removes the skill ceiling players want to strive for. Given the fact that this game doesn't have very much vertical progression, a big factor is improving your skill, and conquering hard content.

Again, ZOS specifically designed Arcanist and crux to be rewarding, but not overly punishing. Yeah your DPS is lower if you don't have max crux, but the ability is still decent on its own without a stack. This is how skills like Bound Armaments work, you want to cast it at 4 stacks, but casting it at 3 stacks just means 25% less damage and you're 1 second closer to your next 4 stacks. They also added double stacks to that ability in an effort to make them less punishing, that is the direction they're moving, not the opposite.

This requires a ton of developement time to accomplish that wouldn't make sense from an investment standpoint. Why make 6 class aoe spammables at that level killing their class dynamics and identities instead of just addressing the root cause, Beam. Yes, other classes need buffs in their cleave department due to update 35 mostly, but the amount of buffing you'd need to do would be too much to the point where their overall single target dps would get so high, you'd also need to buff Arcanist in single target to match it. Brand new skills wouldn't fit anywhere, it would be reworks to existing skills.

Beam is not an issue in pvp, it's pve. It's perfectly fine in that environment because there is counterplay and real humans know how to move where as pve bots do not. You become a sitting duck that can be interupptted out of the cast and you actually need to aim at moving targets.

I kinda touched on it above in a few points, but how are any of these mild to wild ideas any better than a simple nerf to the cleave damage beam deals to address the reason why it's become so popular despite other builds being able to output more dps? The only 1 I think I could see happening is point 3, but honestly their single target dps isn't a problem and you'd just be making it worse in an effort to lower cleave too, why not just only lower cleave?

On the other hand, maybe a class that is primarily aoe, should deal considerably less single target dps than other single target classes. Thats typically how other MMO's work, different classes are good at different things. I just don't think people would be too thrilled about that option.

Thanks for the reponse, it helped me realize my previous suggestions weren't viable (even the least drastic Option 3). Reconsidering your response, I think adjusting the Beam’s cleave damage is the only solution, but it must be simple for developers to implement and not too punishing for casual players.

Here are my proposals for a targeted rebalancing:
(I think that was already proposed as well)

Option 1: Primary Target Focus
This option maintains the Fatecarver's power on the primary target while reducing damage to other enemies.

The primary target receives the full Crux damage bonus.

Secondary enemies receive only a 33% bonus, regardless of the number of Crux used.

Examples:
0 Crux: No damage bonus for anyone.
1 Crux: 33% damage bonus for everyone.
2 Crux: 66% damage bonus for the primary target, 33% for others.
3 Crux: 99% damage bonus for the primary target, 33% for other mobs.

The development challenge would be managing target switching if the player moves the beam or the primary target dies.

Option 2: Progressive Crux Scaling

This option offers a precise adjustment of the Crux bonus for secondary targets:
1 Crux: 33% bonus damage for the primary target, 11% for others.
2 Crux: 66% bonus damage for the primary target, 22% for others.
3 Crux: 99% bonus damage for the primary target, 33% for others.

This ensures the Fatecarver is most potent when optimally used while gradually reducing damage to secondary targets based on Crux investment.

However, as I mentioned, if something is removed something must be added in compensation, even if it’s small :

- Fatecarver (Base Skill): No compensation.
- Pragmatic Fatecarver: Provides 3% reduced damage taken. This is a small but useful defensive bonus for players who sacrifice some cleave damage for survivability.
- Exhausted Fatecarver: Provides 8% increased resource regeneration (Magicka or Stamina, depending on the resource used). This increases sustain, allowing for smoother rotations and better resource management.

universal_wrath · July 11

novapixel wrote: »

It has been over a year of roughly half of pretty much every high tier raid group being Arcanists using the meme beam. Stop giving tiny roundabout baby touches to it by making banner give less crux sometimes or something, please just make the obvious problem skill worse. It is a giant five second ranged AoE damage skill, it doesn't have to be able to be close in damage to single target melee spammables. Some weapon damage off grim focus or coral riptide also don't matter for diversity if at the end of the day there is just one damage skill so gratingly obviously a better choice for nearly every situation than all others.

To make the skill interuptable in PvP is a non starter, for PvE, limting the number of targets or making the skill a single target are decent option.

ellmarie · July 11

meekmiko wrote: »

Or we could, like, not nerf everyone and everything into the ground like always. Bring other classes up to par if need be.
Especially in PvE. Why should you CARE who or what is doing the most DPS? As long as people are having fun and content is being ran and completed it's OKAY.

However things needing to be toned down in PvP I could understand, but that REALLY needs to be balanced separately from PvE.

Soooo this!!

mdjessup4906 · July 11

Option 1: Primary Target Focus
This option maintains the Fatecarver's power on the primary target while reducing damage to other enemies.

The primary target receives the full Crux damage bonus.

I am not against this in principle, IF trying to target anything in this game wasn't a *** nightmare, especially when your trying to hit priority adds in a sea of trash.
I been on templar/arc for a while and I stg the number of executes ive missed because the *** single target beam insists on latching onto everything but what im actually aiming at so help me.

The 6 target limit on arc beam already screws with being able to properly pull it off of stuff im not actually trying to hit. Imagine trying to force it to point at just one thing consistently?

Yes I use tab target.
And no i dont have aim assist on.

Fix that insanity and then they can do whatever.