Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Confused on the Grim Focus changes
Avran_Sylt
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
If the point was to pivot away from passive slotted effects, why swap one passive effect for another?
Why not:
Grim Focus/Merciless: Casting grants Minor Courage for `10s
Relentless Focus: Casting grants Major Courage for 10s
Both involve active use of the ability to maintain uptime of their respective WD/SP effects while eschewing passively slotted effects nearly entirely?
Why not:
Grim Focus/Merciless: Casting grants Minor Courage for `10s
Relentless Focus: Casting grants Major Courage for 10s
Both involve active use of the ability to maintain uptime of their respective WD/SP effects while eschewing passively slotted effects nearly entirely?
1
-
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭How would we power creep without the passive effects though?We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »How would we power creep without the passive effects though?
Well I assume they're eventually going to standardize nearly all sources of unique stat buffs:
EG:
Scaled Armor - Grants Minor Resolve with 2/1 Draconic Power abilities slotted on either bar.
Piercing Spear/Hemorrhage - Grants Minor Force
Master Assassin/Pressure Points - Reworked entirely.
etc. etc.0 -
GloatingSwine✭✭✭✭Because it's been swapped for a named effect which is relatively easily sourced from lots of other places.
It wasn't just that you didn't have to use it to get the benefit, it was that it was a non-overlapping buff that you could just have for the price of a slot.
Once you change it to a named buff it matters less which one because anyone who's getting sweaty probably has that buff, and the Assassination skill line's hat is crit chance so they changed it to that one.1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »How would we power creep without the passive effects though?
Well I assume they're eventually going to standardize nearly all sources of unique stat buffs:
EG:
Scaled Armor - Grants Minor Resolve with 2/1 Draconic Power abilities slotted on either bar.
Piercing Spear/Hemorrhage - Grants Minor Force
Master Assassin/Pressure Points - Reworked entirely.
etc. etc.
Im a math guy, and IMO they really backed themselves into a hole. Certain things like all stat sets can be easily numerically balanced one for one because they are direct replacements. The things like player dependent skill lines especially with subclassing are so far from being direct replacements. On a fundamental level the skills are different but they need to be adjusted based on the rest of the available skill line COMPARED to other skill lines.
Like merciless and BA being compared HAS to include all of the passives and other skills which all depend on the rest of your build or the meta. Its impossible math wise, but players easily pick up on which is better.
This is why adding on the bloated major/minor or %buffs is nonsense. Active skills are far better off being just their active portion. Skill line passives can easily be balanced across the board on their own so long as they are not too intertwined.
Balancing is hard, adding an impossible layer to cover another impossible layer of balance is not going to help zos who is already struggling to balance as it is.- Armor enchants arent balanced
- mundus arent balanced
- jewelry enchants arent balanced
- etc
Edited by MincMincMinc on 10 July 2025 13:36We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭GloatingSwine wrote: »Because it's been swapped for a named effect which is relatively easily sourced from lots of other places.
It wasn't just that you didn't have to use it to get the benefit, it was that it was a non-overlapping buff that you could just have for the price of a slot.
Once you change it to a named buff it matters less which one because anyone who's getting sweaty probably has that buff, and the Assassination skill line's hat is crit chance so they changed it to that one.
I understand completely why they changed it to a named buff to prevent excessive overlapping, it's just that there already exist similar named buffs to the old effects already.
They poke at how this and bound armaments are used "purely passively", but then make the named buff another passive effect.
And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)3 -
pinkpom✭✭Assassination skill line is a critical skill line, so I agree with the Grim Focus changes.
But if Minor Force had been given instead of Major Prophecy and Savagery, I might have complained.1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)
Right, realistically its more of a buff than they think. Even in PvP crit has taken over due to how many easy to obtain %crit damage sources there are given out like candy.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)
Right, realistically its more of a buff than they think. Even in PvP crit has taken over due to how many easy to obtain %crit damage sources there are given out like candy.
I assume those'll fall in line eventually, getting 20% crit damage for free just because of the class lines you picked plus having minor/Major force seems like a bit of an issue.1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)
Right, realistically its more of a buff than they think. Even in PvP crit has taken over due to how many easy to obtain %crit damage sources there are given out like candy.
Probably, especially for PvE DPS and PvP brawlers (Hello 3 Relentless uses in a row w/LA weaving), but I'm a cloak user already so it'll be a nerf for my playstyle in sustained combat, and doesn't really impact my PvP ganking.1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)
Right, realistically its more of a buff than they think. Even in PvP crit has taken over due to how many easy to obtain %crit damage sources there are given out like candy.
I assume those'll fall in line eventually, getting 20% crit damage for free just because of the class lines you picked plus having minor/Major force seems like a bit of an issue.
Its just comical that we see zos try to equate lines of like 100 regen or weapon damage to lines that give 12% crit damage and 12% block damage......Like piercing spear is equivalent to around like 700wd post buff on a normal pvp build Pve im sure is worth a ton more without impen.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »GloatingSwine wrote: »Because it's been swapped for a named effect which is relatively easily sourced from lots of other places.
It wasn't just that you didn't have to use it to get the benefit, it was that it was a non-overlapping buff that you could just have for the price of a slot.
Once you change it to a named buff it matters less which one because anyone who's getting sweaty probably has that buff, and the Assassination skill line's hat is crit chance so they changed it to that one.
I understand completely why they changed it to a named buff to prevent excessive overlapping, it's just that there already exist similar named buffs to the old effects already.
They poke at how this and bound armaments are used "purely passively", but then make the named buff another passive effect.
And "gentle reworking of what they grant" strikes me as a bit odd for NB as a pure NB class lost about 300-400 WD/SP. (But more realistically 150-200 given use of the skill in rotation at 10 stacks)
The problem wasn't that they were purely passive. They used those words but that's clearly not what is meant when looking at the wider context.
The problem was they provided too much power for the amount of effort and commitment needed. The excessive power came from them being unique buffs. It's okay for major/minor buffs to be purely passive because they don't stack and are available from other passive sources. So that's an appropriate amount of power for the passive category.
ETA
Well, at least that appears to be the devs reasoning. I don't agree but I do understand.Edited by spartaxoxo on 10 July 2025 15:451
