Translations Addons - Language Addons?

FabresFour · June 23

I would like to confirm with the other translation addon creators whether their respective addons are working on consoles or not. We had to remove the ESOBR addon due to some bugs we identified, and only recently did we notice the information on the website stating that language addons are not supposed to be compatible with consoles.

Baertram · June 23

I'm no unofficial language patch creator but you can trust me if I say:
They simply do not work atm, as ZOs clearly wrote!
Why do you want to have confirmed something that the game developers and maintainers already told you there?

Reasons that I know off are limitations in size of files, memory usage and also other issues.
Maybe this can be managed to work in teh future but consoles are simply working differently than PCs and thus addons are following a very strickt path, in many terms. Means some adodns of PC simply cannot work or only work with hacks (which are against the TOS).

FabresFour · June 23

Baertram wrote: »

I'm no unofficial language patch creator but you can trust me if I say:
They simply do not work atm, as ZOs clearly wrote!
Why do you want to have confirmed something that the game developers and maintainers already told you there?

Reasons that I know off are limitations in size of files, memory usage and also other issues.
Maybe this can be managed to work in teh future but consoles are simply working differently than PCs and thus addons are following a very strickt path, in many terms. Means some adodns of PC simply cannot work or only work with hacks (which are against the TOS).

The reason: I noticed that several translation addons were published on Bethesda's addon website. That might have indicated that, despite the lack of official support, they could work on consoles.

I mean, during the short period of time we left our addon online, some people managed to get our translation addon semi-working on consoles, and I wanted to see what the cause might be by checking reports from other translation addons creators.

Baertram · June 23

I noticed that several translation addons were published on Bethesda's addon website.

Well afaik they have been even told that their addons won't work (Sharlikran at least told them, that's what I saw).
But they either way published them. I don't know why, maybe you guys love to work on bug reports that cannot be solved

I mean, during the short period of time we left our addon online, some people managed to get our translation addon semi-working on consoles

Most probably it will partially work on some of the consoles (like xbox which is "nearer to PC-like OS etc.") but fail on others (PS).
I do not know the exact issues why ZOs says it is currently non-working, but if they say so you should not try to force-make it work.
Just be patient and wait for them to fix their stuff first. Console players waited for addons how long now? So why not wait a bit longer and benefit at least from the other addons meanwhile

Telmatoscopus · June 26

I don't believe that working on bugs and errors is a waste of time.

I believe that this way we learn more from our own mistakes and that this makes us acquire more knowledge. It is the questions that move the world, not the answers.

I believe that Mr. FabresFour's post was not to complain or question ZOs, but rather to share other errors so that they can be fixed. I believe that it is due to the 100 MB limitation that exists, and the translation files are large, as they carry all the texts of the game.
I don't have a console and I can't test add-ons directly. But I am happy that there are people working on add-ons that others like and can use.
Keep up the great work. Congratulations on the EsoBR add-on initiative.

Baertram · June 26

I don't believe that working on bugs and errors is a waste of time.
I believe that this way we learn more from our own mistakes and that this makes us acquire more knowledge. It is the questions that move the world, not the answers.

Yes you are totally right!
But if the game developer officially says "do not do that now, it won't work" -> It's wasted time to even try to, AND it will also maybe cause issues which makes console players suffer from it.
Means overall: Don't do that!

Instead invest your time into PC addons and bug reports there

I believe that Mr. FabresFour's post was not to complain or question ZOs, but rather to share other errors so that they can be fixed.

And I can only repeat: You do not need to even try to fix anything which isn't officially supported and where the game owners already told you so? In the end it might even lead to problems with the ESO installations on the consoles!
Here is only 1 example post by ZOs why it could lead to problems:

There's two major issues:

1. Sheer size in memory
2. Where the string/lang files live. They're not really considered to be part of the add-on. So if you disable the add-on, it doesn't disable loading the strings.

So please, let ZOs decide what you can do, and when you can do it! If they already said: "Please, do not create and release custom translation addons for consoles until we tell you to do so!" -> Follow their wish/rules.
And focus on PC addons so long.
Thank you

FabresFour · June 26

Baertram wrote: »

I don't believe that working on bugs and errors is a waste of time.
I believe that this way we learn more from our own mistakes and that this makes us acquire more knowledge. It is the questions that move the world, not the answers.

Yes you are totally right!
But if the game developer officially says "do not do that now, it won't work" -> It's wasted time to even try to, AND it will also maybe cause issues which makes console players suffer from it.
Means overall: Don't do that!

Instead invest your time into PC addons and bug reports there

I believe that Mr. FabresFour's post was not to complain or question ZOs, but rather to share other errors so that they can be fixed.

And I can only repeat: You do not need to even try to fix anything which isn't officially supported and where the game owners already told you so? In the end it might even lead to problems with the ESO installations on the consoles!
Here is only 1 example post by ZOs why it could lead to problems:

There's two major issues:

1. Sheer size in memory
2. Where the string/lang files live. They're not really considered to be part of the add-on. So if you disable the add-on, it doesn't disable loading the strings.

So please, let ZOs decide what you can do, and when you can do it! If they already said: "Please, do not create and release custom translation addons for consoles until we tell you to do so!" -> Follow their wish/rules.
And focus on PC addons so long.
Thank you

But that’s exactly the problem — at no point did they say: “Please, do not create and release custom translation addons for consoles until we tell you to do so!” They said that there is no support. But “no support” is a complex concept when they also state that no addon is supported. It’s a communication issue.

What they said is that these addons don’t receive support. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be posted. In fact, this warning only appeared when the addon section launched. Throughout the entire previous month, when people were given the ability to publish addons, that warning wasn’t there.

This notice doesn’t imply that translation addons are forbidden or that they shouldn’t be uploaded. It implies that they probably won’t work. But some of them do work — I’ve seen several reports of translation addons functioning.

That’s the issue: inefficient and unclear communication.

I would like to know if there were any reported errors, as this was not communicated in advance, and several translations were published beforehand because ZOS had not warned creators about this limitation. They only issued the warning right around the launch, and that may have caused issues for all creators — which I’d like to know about or see in order to try to find possible solutions.

Could a ZOS dev please confirm whether uploading translation addons is strictly prohibited, or merely not recommended?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Dolgubon · June 26

FabresFour wrote: »

I would like to confirm with the other translation addon creators whether their respective addons are working on consoles or not. We had to remove the ESOBR addon due to some bugs we identified, and only recently did we notice the information on the website stating that language addons are not supposed to be compatible with consoles.

You haven't shared info on the specific bugs, so I don't know if there's anything that could be done surrounding them or if it's anything you could work around.

That said, ZOS has said that the unofficial language patches are supported 'unofficially', buyer beware. The information that they were not supported was shared in the esoui gitter/matrix chat, and my understanding is that they did attempt to reach various translation devs, without success.

The two main limitations are that:
1. Memory limits
2. It can't be fully removed without uninstalling (which is apparently an issue on PC as well?)

So if you keep those limits in mind you should be ok. Personally, I'd recommend possibly splitting the translations up into two or more: maybe one which includes the most recent patch+dailies+UI and another that has everything else. That would help with memory limits and allow most users to run more+other addons.

> If the community can make things work without breaking people, without crashing the consoles, and while keeping people happy and dealing with the fallout of any weird unexpected behavior, who am I to tell you not to do it? -> ZOS_DanBatson

Also, side note, it says that eso BR is incompatible with writ crafter? Not sure what's up with that. If you mean you need a patch, that's somewhat changed. ~98% of LWC features should be language agnostic now.

FabresFour · June 26

Telmatoscopus wrote: »

I don't believe that working on bugs and errors is a waste of time.
I believe that this way we learn more from our own mistakes and that this makes us acquire more knowledge. It is the questions that move the world, not the answers.
I believe that Mr. FabresFour's post was not to complain or question ZOs, but rather to share other errors so that they can be fixed. I believe that it is due to the 100 MB limitation that exists, and the translation files are large, as they carry all the texts of the game.
I don't have a console and I can't test add-ons directly. But I am happy that there are people working on add-ons that others like and can use.
Keep up the great work. Congratulations on the EsoBR add-on initiative.

Thank you! So, our team is currently divided on whether or not to publish the addon. This is mainly because our translation weighs around 85 MB when installed, including all the texts and content. Out of the 100 MB limit, that's a fairly large amount of text, but it can still be installed. Additionally, it has been proven that the addon can be installed/uninstalled and enabled/disabled via the addon menu.

That said, it seems to work. And that alone was enough for some people to go ahead and publish the addon.
My concern is: could there be other issues that might lead to more serious errors, ultimately preventing the use of translation addons on consoles? That's why I feel the communication around this matter should be clearer.

I mean, since there was no prior warning about this, we had already prepared and organized the console version of the addon well in advance for the launch. It was only on launch day that we were informed it was "unsupported." But what exactly does "unsupported" mean in this context?

This caused a lot of frustration in the Brazilian community, as many players reinstalled the game expecting to use the translation—some even bought the game thinking they’d be able to install it. So, the late notice and lack of clarity felt like a major letdown not only for us, the developers of the tool, but also for the players.

FabresFour · June 26

Dolgubon wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

I would like to confirm with the other translation addon creators whether their respective addons are working on consoles or not. We had to remove the ESOBR addon due to some bugs we identified, and only recently did we notice the information on the website stating that language addons are not supposed to be compatible with consoles.

You haven't shared info on the specific bugs, so I don't know if there's anything that could be done surrounding them or if it's anything you could work around.

That said, ZOS has said that the unofficial language patches are supported 'unofficially', buyer beware. The information that they were not supported was shared in the esoui gitter/matrix chat, and my understanding is that they did attempt to reach various translation devs, without success.

The two main limitations are that:
1. Memory limits
2. It can't be fully removed without uninstalling (which is apparently an issue on PC as well?)

So if you keep those limits in mind you should be ok. Personally, I'd recommend possibly splitting the translations up into two or more: maybe one which includes the most recent patch+dailies+UI and another that has everything else. That would help with memory limits and allow most users to run more+other addons.

> If the community can make things work without breaking people, without crashing the consoles, and while keeping people happy and dealing with the fallout of any weird unexpected behavior, who am I to tell you not to do it? -> ZOS_DanBatson

Also, side note, it says that eso BR is incompatible with writ crafter? Not sure what's up with that. If you mean you need a patch, that's somewhat changed. ~98% of LWC features should be language agnostic now.

Ah, good to know then! The addon will remain published, since in our tests it was working perfectly. Of course, the more people testing, the higher the chance of finding bugs.

Considering that ZOS has a forum section specifically for addons, I expected them to communicate things like this there. And honestly, Bethesda Brasil and the LATAM community manager have the entire translation team’s contact and email—so I don’t really understand how they weren’t able to reach out to us. It’s unfortunate, really. But at least we managed to address the issues that popped up on day one.

About your addons: there are some compatibility patches that a few devs have created, but I don’t use many crafting addons, so I don’t know much about that. I can talk to them and let them know about your addon’s situation so they can remove the patch dependency. Ask them to run some tests and so on. The fewer compatibility patches needed, the better lol.

Dolgubon · June 26

I mean, it was communicated somewhat, I know that at least the ZOS UI devs tried to get ahold of the Italian translators to let them know, I'm not sure if they tried for others but I wouldn't be surprised. But maybe they didn't think to check with the ZOS translation team. And it was known and shared in the esoui gitter/matrix chat. Not sure where else. There is a discussion thread about it there right now, I do suggest checking it out since this info is from there.

They're looking into potentially increasing the allowed storage to 200 MB, but this is subject to change and won't be for a while.

Until then, you could always split it up to help deal with memory limits, letting users only download the translations they need. For larger translations that might even be mandatory.

You also still have not shared any info on what kind of bugs you are encountering. It could very well simply be a normal console add-on issue that can be fixed. I doubt there would be any kind of serious errors preventing translations, but if there was you'd probably have run into it already.

FabresFour · June 26

Dolgubon wrote: »

I mean, it was communicated somewhat, I know that at least the ZOS UI devs tried to get ahold of the Italian translators to let them know, I'm not sure if they tried for others but I wouldn't be surprised. But maybe they didn't think to check with the ZOS translation team. And it was known and shared in the esoui gitter/matrix chat. Not sure where else. There is a discussion thread about it there right now, I do suggest checking it out since this info is from there.

They're looking into potentially increasing the allowed storage to 200 MB, but this is subject to change and won't be for a while.

Until then, you could always split it up to help deal with memory limits, letting users only download the translations they need. For larger translations that might even be mandatory.

You also still have not shared any info on what kind of bugs you are encountering. It could very well simply be a normal console add-on issue that can be fixed. I doubt there would be any kind of serious errors preventing translations, but if there was you'd probably have run into it already.

So, at the moment, the issues we found have been resolved. There are still a few specific ones—like some texts not appearing—that left us a bit confused, but we're currently investigating the cause. (For example, when creating a character, the race description text doesn't appear for some players—while it shows up normally for others. It's nothing really serious, though).

I heard from someone who downloaded the Italian translation that their controller stopped working after the installation. That bug seemed really strange to me, especially considering it's just a translation addon, but I’m not sure. I only saw one report like that.

I actually made this post because I wanted to hear about any bug reports. Considering it’s a new platform for addons, I just wanted to stay aware of things lol.

Oh, and thank you for letting me know where the discussion is happening—I'll keep an eye on it!

Dolgubon · June 26

There are some differences between Xbox and PS. So if you have issues affecting some users and not others, that could be why. Some of those issues ZOS will probably look into but I something in Char select might not be one of those things, since they aren't officially supporting that kind of thing

ZOS_DanBatson · June 27

The original announce back in update 45 did not include a caveat about languages because we didn’t know we weren't going to have official support. We did provide an update to addon developers shortly after, and we included the same note in our communications after.

That said, it really does boil down to this: no official support... yet. As you've found, there can be ways to make it work. As long as you make it work within the parameters of legitimate use of tools, stability, adhering to the TOS and EULA, and remaining within the bounds of the memory limitations, you are welcome to do it. The limitations with language support were already mentioned above, but we’ll update when we have those support tools ready. However, we're happy to see things working out in the meantime, we know how much people want language add-ons.

If you are working on console language addons, we encourage you to test any console addons using ForceConsoleFlow on PC before uploading. A number of broken add-ons have been uploaded without testing, and using ForceConsoleFlow would have revealed at least some of those issues.