Past time to do away with re-queue timers

Avalon · June 23

With the number of fake-tanks and fake-healers queueing up, and ruining random runs? ZOS needs to respect our time. Giving people 8-10 minute (if not MORE) timers for leaving a dungeon due to dying over and over is NOT an acceptable thing anymore. I get that this used to be a good thing for all manner of reasons, but, anymore, there are DPS queueing up as tanks, and not tanking. Or healers, and not healing. Worse, they don't know anything about the dungeons they are signing on for, and it just gets parties wiped over and over. And, if you try and tell them what needs done, they ignore.

But, we get punished by a huge repair bill, the time we lost in trying to get through the queue, the time we lost in the dungeon, then we get that 8+ minute timer? ZOS, do you just hate your players? Fix the problem, or stop punishing us for the actions and lies of other players. We did nothing wrong, but we get punished, and THEY (the fakes) get rewarded because they didn't drop group - they were the CAUSE of the group dropping.

RealLoveBVB · June 23

What's your suggestion to fix this?

bmnoble · June 23

It is to reduce the likely hood of people in the random queue, getting a dungeon they don't like and abandoning the run after taking one look at the group members levels, never even reaching the first boss.

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

At most they should change it to after 15 minutes into the run you leave there is no penalty, you leave before that first 15 minutes is up you get the penalty time to re queue.

Heronisan · June 23

I still think we need to separate the dungeons more.

Make a "veteran" checkmark, if u check this u get qued with other who also checked it. Make an explanation when u hoover over it "check this if you are a experienced dungeon runner".

A "speedrunner" checkmark with explanation "check this if you want to go fast, and roles are not important to you"

I have suggested this for a long time, sometimes people seem to think that there is not enouhg people for this, but they have no clue, right now an enourmous amount of players is actively avoiding random que because of what a trash experience they end up getting, this would only bring in more players.

There should also probbaly be something like an option to let u choose a minimum of 5+ dungeons for random dungeon, so the transmutr farmers can choose to only que for the easy base dungeons.

Avalon · June 23

bmnoble wrote: »

It is to reduce the likely hood of people in the random queue, getting a dungeon they don't like and abandoning the run after taking one look at the group members levels, never even reaching the first boss.

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

At most they should change it to after 15 minutes into the run you leave there is no penalty, you leave before that first 15 minutes is up you get the penalty time to re queue.

Yeah, no...

Got queued into Scrivener's Hall. First boss, spent 4 attempts. No one listening, healer not healing, tank not tanking. Other DPS just dying and never trying to find the books.

I was the only person actually doing my job.

4 times.

Yet, when I gave up, called it quits, because it was obviously never going to happen because the other 3 were not EVER going to do what they were supposed to? I get punished.

I don't know the solution, but THIS is not it. DPS spends enough time trying to queue already... but, when they get a dungeon, and they actually know what they are supposed to do, and because it is a 'new dungeon' and the other teammates refuse to learn and/or listen? When they aren't even taunting (if tank) or healing (as healer)? The situation is broken.

Cool that ZOS is evolving, making new dungeons that are more intricate, complex, involved...

But, when they continue to allow players to queue as whatever, then punish players for realizing the lies and deceit? Should those players just be forced to stay for another 30 minutes or so, racking up repair bills and wasting time just so they avoid the queue time penalty?

There needs to be a fix for this. Not sure what that solution is, but expecting ME to have that solution?

If so, I need paid for being a developer. THEY are the ones getting paid, they should be the ones who find a solution to a horrible problem. It's why they get paid the big bucks, and I don't. This is a real problem, and has been for a long time. They need to be the ones (as they are paid for it) to find a solution for that problem.

Destai · June 23

I couldn't agree more. Especially when there's DLC dungeons, so many PUGs fail because of the mechanics. There's dungeons where many people leave right away - like LoM. Then if you leave too, you're stuck with a penalty. Doesn't seem fair. I just want to do a random, get my XP and transmutes and move through my toons.

bmnoble wrote: »

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

Yes, because they're not always fun or possible with PUGs. It seems like there's a strong desire for base game only randoms - people weren't buying dungeon DLCs because of that. It's great DLC dungeons have gotten progressively more complex, they really are some of the most interesting content. But not everyone wants to sit through a 30 min dungeon on a random. I think that's something they need to accommodate.

Avalon · June 23

Destai wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. Especially when there's DLC dungeons, so many PUGs fail because of the mechanics. There's dungeons where many people leave right away - like LoM. Then if you leave too, you're stuck with a penalty. Doesn't seem fair. I just want to do a random, get my XP and transmutes and move through my toons.

bmnoble wrote: »

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

Yes, because they're not always fun or possible with PUGs. It seems like there's a strong desire for base game only randoms - people weren't buying dungeon DLCs because of that. It's great DLC dungeons have gotten progressively more complex, they really are some of the most interesting content. But not everyone wants to sit through a 30 min dungeon on a random. I think that's something they need to accommodate.

Exactly, there's a reason a lot of people have a Level 10 character in their stable. Maybe the solution should be to make randoms be just the base game dungeons? People really only choose random to get the daily rewards. Very much like doing writs or whatever. They have 8-20 characters to get through, they don't want to spend half an hour on each just for the daily dungeons.

tomofhyrule · June 23

Avalon wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. Especially when there's DLC dungeons, so many PUGs fail because of the mechanics. There's dungeons where many people leave right away - like LoM. Then if you leave too, you're stuck with a penalty. Doesn't seem fair. I just want to do a random, get my XP and transmutes and move through my toons.

bmnoble wrote: »

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

Yes, because they're not always fun or possible with PUGs. It seems like there's a strong desire for base game only randoms - people weren't buying dungeon DLCs because of that. It's great DLC dungeons have gotten progressively more complex, they really are some of the most interesting content. But not everyone wants to sit through a 30 min dungeon on a random. I think that's something they need to accommodate.

Exactly, there's a reason a lot of people have a Level 10 character in their stable. Maybe the solution should be to make randoms be just the base game dungeons? People really only choose random to get the daily rewards. Very much like doing writs or whatever. They have 8-20 characters to get through, they don't want to spend half an hour on each just for the daily dungeons.

Except that's not the point of randoms.

The purpose of the random queue is to backfill any groups looking for specific dungeons. Of course nobody wants to run through Maarselok over and over, so the idea was to give an incentive to people to do so... in the form of XP and transmutes.

The playerbase now sees that incentive and wants the reward with the least amount of work possible.

What ZOS should do would be to change the random reward to be equivalent to the dungeon level. Something like the full 10 transmutes comes only from a DLC dungeon, and then basegames get fewer, and vets give double. That would keep the idea of an incentive for people needing to run specific dungeons while also encouraging people to not spam FGI for easy transmutes.
Of course that wouldn't be popular with the playerbase, but ZOS's goal is to get people to backfill dungeons, not to give away free transmutes. Heck, I'd even say to give a bonus 10 transmutes if a player in the group completes the quest to encourage people to not speed past objectives and prevent people from earning their skill points.

PeacefulAnarchy · June 23

bmnoble wrote: »

It is to reduce the likely hood of people in the random queue, getting a dungeon they don't like and abandoning the run after taking one look at the group members levels, never even reaching the first boss.

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

At most they should change it to after 15 minutes into the run you leave there is no penalty, you leave before that first 15 minutes is up you get the penalty time to re queue.

Isn't this how it already works? the requeue timer starts when you enter a dungeon (I think it's 15 minutes). If you leave right away penalty is 15 minutes, if you leave after 5 minutes you still have to wait 10 minutes, if you leave after 15 minutes you can requeue right away. So basically you have a 15 minute timer as soon as you port in, and it gets cleared either at 15 mins, or when dungeon is completed, whichever comes first.

Darrett · June 23

They could just reduce the timer by each player death that occurs. Say 4 minutes per death, so if the group wipes twice, you have no timer for requeue.

Avalon · June 24

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

It is to reduce the likely hood of people in the random queue, getting a dungeon they don't like and abandoning the run after taking one look at the group members levels, never even reaching the first boss.

If there were no queue penalty you would have a large amount of the player base re queuing every time they got a DLC dungeon.

At most they should change it to after 15 minutes into the run you leave there is no penalty, you leave before that first 15 minutes is up you get the penalty time to re queue.

Isn't this how it already works? the requeue timer starts when you enter a dungeon (I think it's 15 minutes). If you leave right away penalty is 15 minutes, if you leave after 5 minutes you still have to wait 10 minutes, if you leave after 15 minutes you can requeue right away. So basically you have a 15 minute timer as soon as you port in, and it gets cleared either at 15 mins, or when dungeon is completed, whichever comes first.

The problem is that most of the really bad groups are the ones that try and race through, so it pulls you into the boss fight within a minute of starting the dungeon, then the party wipes over and over and over. You can die 3-5 times in under 10 minutes. So, I guess the way to handle is just lay there dead until you get kicked or the bad members leave? Doesn't sound like a solution if so, because the good players are still punished with loss of time.

Aliniel · June 24

What we need is to ensure the person queuing up as tank/heaelr IS ACTUALLY a tank/healer.

This could be a quite simple solution - minimal requirements. For example (modify numbers to what is reasonable):
- Tank: 30k HP, 25k Armor, 50%+ skills "tank" compatible, taunt mandatory.
- Healer: 50%+ skills "healer" compatible.

Unless you meet these requirements, you cannot queue as a tank/healer.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 24

It should be based on the time you spend in the dungeon, - leave right away 20m of no queuing which is then reduced whilst in the dungeon, so if you spend 20m wiping on a boss you can leave without punishment.

thorwyn · June 24

Aliniel wrote: »

What we need is to ensure the person queuing up as tank/heaelr IS ACTUALLY a tank/healer.

This could be a quite simple solution - minimal requirements. For example (modify numbers to what is reasonable):
- Tank: 30k HP, 25k Armor, 50%+ skills "tank" compatible, taunt mandatory.
- Healer: 50%+ skills "healer" compatible.

Unless you meet these requirements, you cannot queue as a tank/healer.

Alpha Gear, Dressing Room, Wizard's Wardrobe exist.
If someone wants to fake a role, a gear/skill check won't prevent them to.

MJallday · June 24

theres a simple solution - play with friends/guilds.

CalamityCat · June 24

It's rare that I've had groups that weren't capable of finishing, so the timer doesn't bother me. I can run a BG or do something else for a few minutes. Often I'm due a screen break so I go make coffee, let the dogs out and I can queue again.

When I get genuinely bad groups, especially fake tank/healer speed runners, I just let them die repeatedly and don't waste time rezzing. If they obviously wanted a quick run and it's not happening, you can often provoke a tantrum where one fake quits, then the other. Then either there's a full disband or the remaining player and myself do a fun run together. It's funny how often I've had easier runs with one person than three!

I really wish there was a way to select a random from either the base game or DLC dungeons only or both. Then a newer player on Plus can do the randoms without being surprised with DLCs until they've learned the mechs. Or even just the option to blacklist some dungeons - eg the ones you have everything collected from, or your personal nemesis picks.