Tanking is like driving

Navaac223 · June 7

I wanted to share my shower thoughts with you : learning to tank vet trials is exactly like learning to drive. Hear me out :

The first time you get on the highway, you're panicking because there are so many things going on and you don't know exactly what to do. Then, you get used to it and you become an average driver.

After a while of driving, you are no longer the cause of accidents, you actually prevent them from happening. You become what society is sorely lacking : a good driver.

At this point you know every obscure trick to go above the speed limit without getting caught and to switch gears as smoothly as possible.

Oh and also cyclists will blame you for their bad driving even though you're also a cyclist sometimes so you know exactly how hard DDs are getting carrie... I mean how much cars are doing to protect them

preevious · June 7

Look, I do respect a good tank like most people, and indeed they are very indispensable ..

But that is unecessarily dérogative toward the other rôles, my god. Please, you can be proud of yourself, but not that much, ugh ...

A tank without the other roles is like a dd without the other roles : USELESS

ImmortalCX · June 7

The only reason I don't tank is that I don't know the directions in half of the dungeons.

If there was an addon that gave hints on where to go I would tank.

16BitForestCat · June 7

"Tanking is like driving"

Sooooo...most people are not nearly as good at it as they think, while insisting they're actually really great at it, and it's everyone else who sucks?

Renato90085 · June 7

I think all role can do this if the carry way about they work...
like in pug Vdsr,my healer take dome leave boss few sec, stop Dps parse boss in bash stage(80%) and wait Arto born
or as good dps ,check twin health need same time killed them so swap my place/when swap dome mech wrong try fix this
But I agree tank have bigest pressure,because tank mistake alway mean group wipe
and if you good but Dps very terrible,it still very pain run...

thorwyn · June 7

ok buddy...

Hapexamendios · June 7

I think this topic crashed

Urzigurumash · June 7

Totes, I used to say putting on Livewire and Battalion Defender was like driving an 8 cylinder sedan with air suspsension

Desiato · June 7

I honestly don't see the traffic analogy.

To me, a good tank does things like:
- keeps hard hitting enemies taunted
- positions enemies well, especially when utilizing pull abilities and sets
- buffs the group and debuffs enemies
- is high cpm and doesn't perma block
- pushes the pace
- doesn't keep the group stuck in combat by inexplicably trying to stack the next trash pack before the group is finished the one they're on (in dungeons, not trials)
- adapts to the content; for example, normal dungeons don't need 30k+ hp
- doesn't need a healer in dungeons and arenas

ImmortalCX wrote: »

The only reason I don't tank is that I don't know the directions in half of the dungeons.

If there was an addon that gave hints on where to go I would tank.

Throw yourself in the water and you'll learn to swim. Some dungeons can be confusing, but most are pretty linear. It helps when playing through the dungeon for the first time to make the dungeon quest active so the quest markers can guide you. Also, don't be a passenger when dpsing, try to look at the map and figure out where to go.

Jaimeh · June 7

preevious wrote: »

A tank without the other roles is like a dd without the other roles : USELESS

I'm not saying this to be contrary but I had to pose this scenario (because it does actually happen in reality): a 4-DD group can do all vet HM base game content very fast and efficiently, and if their kiting and rezzing game was on point, then this could also extend to DLC. A 4-tank or 4-healer group on the other hand...

preevious · June 7

Jaimeh wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

A tank without the other roles is like a dd without the other roles : USELESS

I'm not saying this to be contrary but I had to pose this scenario (because it does actually happen in reality): a 4-DD group can do all vet HM base game content very fast and efficiently, and if their kiting and rezzing game was on point, then this could also extend to DLC. A 4-tank or 4-healer group on the other hand...

I'm not saying they can't. They sure can, for the base game content.
However, efficient as they may be, they'll still be, IMO, less efficient that a normal group of a tank/heal/2DD.

Kiting lowers damage output
Self-healing lowers damage output
A mobile boss lowers damage output
A lack of buffs/debuffs provided by a tank and heal lowers damage output

So, yes, I'll take a normal group over a 4DD / 3DD group anyway.

Desiato · June 7

The most efficient vet 4 player group comp will be 1 tank and 3 DD -- with some support sets.

4 DD will never be optimal in tougher vet DLC dungeons because of bad positioning, but there are probably a lot that 4 elite dd can burn through. I would still rather have a full tank for buffs and debuffs though.

The optional role is healer when the DD can stay out of the red an self heal as necessary.

preevious · June 7

I, for one, thik there's no optional role.

3DDs and a tank is viable, sure, I think it's outcompeted by 1T/1H/2DD

I believe that, to self heal and to have support sets, the DD lose a chunk of his damage.
I think 2DDs, fully geared for damage, buffed by an healer that allows them to endure and not move as much are going to ultimately deal more damage than 3DDs (and since the heal also deals non negligible damage, it's even better)

Desiato · June 7

Outcompeted how? If you're talking about the highest dps and fastest clears possible, it's going to be 3 skilled DD over 1 healer and 2 DD in every scenario I can imagine.

There is a ridiculous amount of passive healing in this game without even considering pragmatic fatecarver.

Like a group determined to farm vdsa as quickly as possible is definitely going 3DD.

Soarora · June 8

ImmortalCX wrote: »

The only reason I don't tank is that I don't know the directions in half of the dungeons.

If there was an addon that gave hints on where to go I would tank.

Minimap can help. Off the top of my head here’s a few tricks: COA1 you can go left or right first, then the other way, then middle, bedlam veil go towards the long paths not the ones that end in wide areas, and frostvault (big robot room) run around till you find the khajiit because she is by the right door.

As for the role discussion, 3.5 dd is the ideal. Kill the boss before it does any mechanics and all you have to deal with is light and maybe heavy attacks. SCP trifecta has been done this way, there’s a video on youtube. Its even easier now with subclassing to full burn before mechanics happen. It also depends on dungeon. 3 DD is well established to be BiS in UG and its been BiS in UG this whole time because most of what kills you is one-shots. For more heal-heavy dungeons, you can run a hybrid dps-healer. More damage is always better in a skilled organized group.

Zodiarkslayer · June 8

You all get that the word "tanking" derives from the military vehicle tank, right?

So tanking can be read as operating a tank, as in driving it?

Right? 🤨

preevious · June 8

Desiato wrote: »

Outcompeted how? If you're talking about the highest dps and fastest clears possible, it's going to be 3 skilled DD over 1 healer and 2 DD in every scenario I can imagine.

There is a ridiculous amount of passive healing in this game without even considering pragmatic fatecarver.

Like a group determined to farm vdsa as quickly as possible is definitely going 3DD.

Well, we can always disagree, and you can of course play the game as you wish to play it, but I can elaborate a little with a little made-up example.

Case 1 : 2DD/1H

DD1 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD2 : 40k DPS unbuffed

Enter the heal, who knows his stuff and boost the DDs :

DD1 : 55k DPS buffed
DD2 : 55k DPS buffed
Heal : 15k DPS

Total : 125k DPS

Case 2 : 3DD

DD1 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD2 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD3 : 40k DPS unbuffed

Total : 120k DPS.
Sure, the DD can buff themselves or wear support sets, that's true. But it'll lower the base 40k, because of not being completely geared for damage. Time spent healing oneself is not spent hurting the baddies.

Also, when there's a good healer around, I know in wich AoE I can stand while staying alive and continue my rotation unabated. Without an healer, I'll move and disrupt my damage dealing a little.

And I don't speak of the benefit of having a healerfor the tank, who will have an easier time, and also deal a little more damage !

Well, as I said, you can disagree, we all have our opinions. My experience tells me that the run is much more enjoyable with an healer.
And also, the better the DDs, the better the healer's boost become.

Desiato · June 8

Buffing the group isn't a full time job. As I said previously, in an optimal 1T3 DD group, there will be support set coverage. That's why I called it an optimal group. I'm not saying 3 random DDs and a tank are going to outperform a skilled 1T1H2DD with a strong group comp. But I am saying a skilled 1T3DD group will outperform the same players in a 1T1H2DD configuration if they are both in optimal comps.

But even in pugs I prefer to have 3 DDs.

You can see the 3rd DD as the healer in terms of support sets, except instead of healing they mainly parse, in addition to buffing the group.

ESO has never truly been a trinity MMO for 4 player content because roles can be distributed among group members. Optimizing means eliminating functions that are not needed or redundant. Buffing the group is highly beneficial. Having a dedicated healer is not necessarily optimal.

preevious · June 8

Desiato wrote: »

You can see the 3rd DD as the healer in terms of support sets, except instead of healing they mainly parse, in addition to buffing the group.

Yes, I get you, that's perfectly fair. So, your third dd is a skilled healer. Because a healer parse too and do non-negligible damage.
So in fact, we agree with each other, but we don"t give the same name to stuff. I do consider someone doing what you describe as a heal. I never said an healer would not parse. A healer deals potent damage, as he's built a lot like a dps.

You might think I was refering to heal bots. Nonono, I was talking about skilled healers.
We might give them different names, but in fact we are of the same opinion.

fufu_from_ps4 · June 8

Outcompeted how? If you're talking about the highest dps and fastest clears possible, it's going to be 3 skilled DD over 1 healer and 2 DD in every scenario I can imagine.

Case 1 : 2DD/1H

DD1 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD2 : 40k DPS unbuffed

Enter the heal, who knows his stuff and boost the DDs :

DD1 : 55k DPS buffed
DD2 : 55k DPS buffed
Heal : 15k DPS

Total : 125k DPS

Case 2 : 3DD

DD1 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD2 : 40k DPS unbuffed
DD3 : 40k DPS unbuffed

Total : 120k DPS.

=============================================

yeah we had a huge arguement back in the day over this. basically, with 3 dd you're going to be slotting heals and utility and losing bar space. not to mention probably losing buffs the healer would bring. furthermore, my healer not only buffed the group but ran a decent amount of dps. i believe it was 30k self buffed on the 1 mil dummy.

we ran twice, and with the healer we set a 1st place score (back in the day, vdsa) .

perhaps now, with subclassing you might run 3 dd with 1 buff set on each or somthing, and just stack vigor and ignore mechs. but i prefered having the buff healer and i think the damage was better with it. it certainly was when we ran that score run. in todays meta im unsure how it would shake out, i'd still personally prefer a healer so i can relax a little, have synergies and buffs.

that being said, if the healer is not buffing group, id prefer 3 dps.

also tanks can pump pretty good damage too. i forgot his name, but i knew a tank once who held aggro, buffed group, and was doing like 60k dps somehow. he was an anomoly tho.

also also.... this was back before you could max crit damage out so easily. and get every buff in the game by sneezing.

Renato90085 · June 8

In my exp ,1t 3 arc burn most dungeons hm boss in 7-14 sec is meta so long ...
But 1t 1h 2d will more Stable

katanagirl1 · June 9

All I can think about is that comedian who said everyone who is driving faster than you is an idiot and everyone who is driving slower than you is a moron.