Newer Motif and Style pages are looking "Rubbery","Plasticky" and do not Dye properly

Mattymoo92 · May 23

Firstly, big thanks to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom for asking me to post this issue here in todays livestream. Over the last few years the quality of motif and style pages have dropped somewhat and many people both in game and in ESO discords have noticed this too. At first, i thought that maybe the way the motifs and styles are created has changed but Jess believes it could be a bug so i decided to put some older styles next to newer ones to better explain what i mean.

On the left in these images are older styles, typically pre Necrom, if you look at the metal parts they all look somewhat similar in how it looks and the quality of the metal has a clear "metal" look to them whereas on the right the metal parts are harder to distinguish as the texture is different. Myself and others I have spoken too have said it looks "Rubbery" and "plasticky" for lack of a better word almost as if its cardboard masquerading as metal. Personally, i feel like this isn't a bug but maybe a design mishap or change in direction but it is possible it could just be a bug. Either way, i hope for better looking metals in motifs for the future as it is difficult to create outfits when the very base of the metal looks different to older styles as they dye differently. If you look at West weald legionnaire i feel like the poor quality of the metal parts are much more premiant as it looks very cardboard like and rubbery compared to Welkynar having a metallic metal look.

On older motifs black looks more black whereas on newer ones it looks a lot more washed or faded. If you look at the image below, the dye on the left is a much different quality to the right and in the second picture it is almost impossible to distinguish what material each part is made of once dyed

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin Hopefully we can get to the bottom of the issue
Account name- @UnyieldingStorm

LunaFlora · May 24

agreed!

katanagirl1 · May 24

The West Weald Legion style looks like it is made of wood, I always thought it looked odd.

Lilytetsuya · May 24

I do agree that there has been a decline in quality of styles. What is supposed to be metal often looks more like rubber and when dyed it looks more faded or washed out even when compared to some styles released earlier, around the same time and later.
Examples of more faded ones are Sancre Tor Sentry, Dreamcarver, Order of the Lamp, Cumberland Cavalier, Arkay Unending Cycle, Y'ffre's Fallen-Wood, fabric on both Gravegrasp and Dark Executioner and some more.
Examples of sets that dye well are Balfieran Sentinel, Dibella's Exaltation, Skingrad Vedette, Aldmeri Eagle Knight, All-Maker, Gold Road Dragoon, Earthbone Ayleid.
I tried to list styles that came out in 2023-2024 from crown store and ingame. Hopefully the list will be of some help when comparing the styles and finding out if it's just bug or a design direction has changed.

ApoAlaia · May 24

Newer styles do dye... weird.

Seldom I find the outcome matching the colour of the dye used.

Mattymoo92 · May 26

Lilytetsuya wrote: »

I do agree that there has been a decline in quality of styles. What is supposed to be metal often looks more like rubber and when dyed it looks more faded or washed out even when compared to some styles released earlier, around the same time and later.
Examples of more faded ones are Sancre Tor Sentry, Dreamcarver, Order of the Lamp, Cumberland Cavalier, Arkay Unending Cycle, Y'ffre's Fallen-Wood, fabric on both Gravegrasp and Dark Executioner and some more.
Examples of sets that dye well are Balfieran Sentinel, Dibella's Exaltation, Skingrad Vedette, Aldmeri Eagle Knight, All-Maker, Gold Road Dragoon, Earthbone Ayleid.
I tried to list styles that came out in 2023-2024 from crown store and ingame. Hopefully the list will be of some help when comparing the styles and finding out if it's just bug or a design direction has changed.

Thank you for more examples

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · May 28

Thanks all! Seeing the screenshots, this isn't quite what I thought it was (a more obvious texture bug), but I do see what you're saying. We'll get these over to the art team.

BahometZ · May 28

Great post, and i do agree. I have been wondering for a while now if a lot of the newer design textures were putting emphasis on less graphical demand, as the texture seems a lot more uniform, like a dress costume that can be slipped on easily and appear like armour at a glance, as opposed to actual separate armour pieces, which are distinct and materially different.

An example that springs to mind is the armour in Rings of Power (right) compared to the OG LotR trilogy (left).

A lot of the newer ones like the examples given in a post higher up just look less substantial or impressive, the texture is murky and looks like a modern composite material more than iron, steel or leather. I do think the styling is quite good in most cases, like the form and fit, for me it's mostly the texture that feels lacking, and poor dyeing is an outcome of that.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · June 4

Hi all! Thanks for your patience as we looked into this. We talked with the Art team and they confirmed that what you’re seeing is not a bug. We appreciate the feedback and screenshots; they have been very helpful and we’ll keep this in mind for future work.

One thing the Art team did mention is that sometimes in-game visuals can be affected by the Ambient Occlusion settings (in the Video settings). That isn't necessarily the case here but it couldn't hurt to check and see if it’s defaulting to a different setting than what you want, and adjust as needed.

Eclipse318 · June 4

(sneaks in to say:)
On the topic of dyes and outfits... is is possible to make the dyes show up more brightly? 95% of the dyes turn dark/dull/faded/washed out on 95% of the armor and costume pieces. Some of them, like the intensely bright metallics, do seem to override the dullness, especially on metal surfaces, but mostly the colors end up being really disappointing when I try to put them on anything. Womp womp. Thanks for listening, ZeniFolks.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · June 4

Eclipse318 wrote: »

(sneaks in to say:)
On the topic of dyes and outfits... is is possible to make the dyes show up more brightly? 95% of the dyes turn dark/dull/faded/washed out on 95% of the armor and costume pieces. Some of them, like the intensely bright metallics, do seem to override the dullness, especially on metal surfaces, but mostly the colors end up being really disappointing when I try to put them on anything. Womp womp. Thanks for listening, ZeniFolks.

Thanks @Eclipse318! We passed this along to the Art team as well.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · June 4

Blind Path is an example I remember being frustrated with that got this issue, and it's not just the metal bits either. It's all so rubbery looking and you can't really make it black.

It all also look so thick and strangely designed a lot of times. Like leaning towards the unrealisticness of World of Warcraft, than the fantasy yet sensible aesethic TES used to have.

Jaimeh · June 4

Mattymoo92 wrote: »

On the left in these images are older styles, typically pre Necrom, if you look at the metal parts they all look somewhat similar in how it looks and the quality of the metal has a clear "metal" look to them whereas on the right the metal parts are harder to distinguish as the texture is different. Myself and others I have spoken too have said it looks "Rubbery" and "plasticky" for lack of a better word almost as if its cardboard masquerading as metal.

I've noticed that as well, the metals sometimes look how 3D printed armor looks, a bit rubbery, and the dyes can make this worse.

Evil_Rurouni · June 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

(sneaks in to say:)
On the topic of dyes and outfits... is is possible to make the dyes show up more brightly? 95% of the dyes turn dark/dull/faded/washed out on 95% of the armor and costume pieces. Some of them, like the intensely bright metallics, do seem to override the dullness, especially on metal surfaces, but mostly the colors end up being really disappointing when I try to put them on anything. Womp womp. Thanks for listening, ZeniFolks.

Thanks @Eclipse318! We passed this along to the Art team as well.

I'll suggest an Improvement to Eclipse's original suggestion:
Add a toggle that alters the interaction between dye and motif.

Currently, dyes act as a filter.
They nudge the visible colour towards the colour of the dye but don't override the base colour completly.
The toggle should make the dye completely override the base colour.

This toggle would fix Eclipse's dye desaturation issues AND would remove the colour matching issues people see when mixing and matching multiple motifs to make a costume then try to dye them.

If you need an example, try combining these 3 motifs then dying the metal parts with the same bronze/brass/gold dye:
Apostle
Arkthzand armory
Refabricated

The Arkthzand will look noticably darker and more corroded than the rest, and it'll be more noticable the lighter the dye you use.