PVE etiquette

Mofasa · June 4

With the recent release of subclassing, the PvE areas, particularly public dungeons, have become crowded with high-level players testing out their newly maxed-out skills. This has led to a chaotic environment where players are often "stealing" kills, frequently using powerful abilities like the Arcanist's beam attacks.

I would like to see this behavior change, although I’m not optimistic that it will, as it seems many players may not be receptive to feedback. However, I hope we can foster a sense of etiquette regarding behavior in dungeons, dolmens, and other areas.

Dungeons
If you see a player engaged in combat with one or more enemies, please refrain from assisting them unless they specifically request help or are on the verge of defeat.
When fighting a boss, consider holding back on using your ultimate abilities. Allow others to tag the boss first. While I understand that the player dealing the most damage typically receives the loot, it’s important to let everyone participate.

Dolmens
You gain more experience by defeating the mobs that spawn rather than rushing to complete the event. Please avoid activating or closing the four glowing stones as soon as they light up. We miss out on valuable experience if you do this. Let’s take the time to eliminate all the mobs until they stop spawning before closing the stones.
Additionally, please avoid using pull or knockback abilities, as they can be quite disruptive for melee players.
When I enter a dungeon, I always allow lower-level players to engage the mobs on their own. I might help out by tagging bosses or sending in my companion, but I usually stand back and let them take the lead.

Thank you for considering these points!

*This post have been translated from my personal rabbling, full of spelling errors and grammatical madness, to something more sophisticated by Duck.ai*

kargen27 · June 4

I disagree with your dungeon view. Many players now are looking to gain XP to advance new skill lines. Watching other players kill things just because they got to them first means either waiting for respawn or running ahead of the player to take the next mob. Best to join in and then both move on to next mob. I do agree you shouldn't just instant melt them because you can.

Aliniel · June 4

ZOS broke and game and you beg people not to abuse their new powers. You're barking at the wrong tree.

Mofasa · June 4

So just because ZOE made some changes we should all treat each others with no respect?

Hapexamendios · June 4

In regards to dungeons, if someone is engaged with adds, I'm killing them too and I'd expect the same from others. With bosses, most of them aren't going to be taken out by a couple ults even on normal and most fights your drug into anyway so no reason to hesitate.

Regarding dolmens, that's just not going to happen. The behavior is too ingrained into too many players.

bmnoble · June 4

In regards to dungeons, sorry but no, if there are random enemies in my way they die, to help level my skill lines and skill morphs.

Bosses however I hold off on if other players are present to ensure they can get enough damage in to count for the kill and avoid having to wait for it to re spawn.

Dolmens I agree with you for the most part, on the holding off on closing of the 4 pinions/stones whatever they are called. As for the mobs same as with dungeons if I need XP I will kill what is in front of me, if I didn't need the XP I would be doing as you say just killing just enough to count for completion.

Though at the moment haven't been bothering with dolmens, focusing on killing everything in my path questing in the new zone. Then likely to switch to questing on an alt, unless a dolmen is active on my path not likely to bother grinding them.

Desiato · June 4

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but you're peeing in a river -- because these forums have no real social reach compared to gaming forums 20-30 years ago. IMO, gaming forums generally aren't very relevant anymore. There is no game-wide connected culture in eso.

And even if you could reach everyone, there's a good chance they may not agree. This is a game played by people from around the world, from all walks of life and spanning probably at least 5 generations. That's a lot of potential gaps in understanding.

The only etiquette that I've found works is respecting that others can play how they want. I remind myself of that when a member of a dungeon pug beelines to the first boss, trapping the rest of us in combat, when players play pvp in ways I don't appreciate, etc...

During my first eso life that started in 2014, I took a different approach. I tried to encourage others to play according to the values established by my generation of gamer -- and failed spectacularly.

Irhak · June 4

Mofasa wrote: »

Dungeons
If you see a player engaged in combat with one or more enemies, please refrain from assisting them unless they specifically request help or are on the verge of defeat.
When fighting a boss, consider holding back on using your ultimate abilities. Allow others to tag the boss first. While I understand that the player dealing the most damage typically receives the loot, it’s important to let everyone participate.

If you really mean dungeons then I got newsflash for you - noone is gonna stand back and wait for 30 minutes for tank to kill the boss...
If you meant delves it's quest based not some hogging farm... same with Public Dungeons where those bosses are literally just for achievment (and maybe overland gear) and nothing more. Those bosses have no other real value.

Now tell me if playerbase do as you propose... how long would it take to quit the game bc of the public dungeon group event you have to do solo? Or from not a single person do bosses or any other help with mobs in dungeons like Bedlam Veil? Or you having to wait for delve boss to spawn for like 1-2h bc of queue for that boss? People already are annoyed/enraged bc the cyro delves bosses spawns abnormarly long...

Mofasa wrote: »

Dolmens
You gain more experience by defeating the mobs that spawn rather than rushing to complete the event. Please avoid activating or closing the four glowing stones as soon as they light up. We miss out on valuable experience if you do this. Let’s take the time to eliminate all the mobs until they stop spawning before closing the stones.
Additionally, please avoid using pull or knockback abilities, as they can be quite disruptive for melee players.
When I enter a dungeon, I always allow lower-level players to engage the mobs on their own. I might help out by tagging bosses or sending in my companion, but I usually stand back and let them take the lead.

This make sense only with the Alik'r Dolmens since those are activly used for farming... all other dolmens (and other world events) are not done for exp but for quest for them so it makes sense to get over with it asap...

Maitsukas · June 4

In my opinion, ZOS should add NPC health scaling to various WBs, Delve Bosses, World Event Bosses, etc., depending on the amount of players fighting them. And the top 12 player DPS/HPS loot limit should be removed.

mrreow · June 4

No one is going to coddle each other like this, it is unrealistic to expect this to happen. Additionally this forum is what 0.001% of player base?

Even if we all agree to walk on eggshells in dungeons to god forbid not offend anyone (which is actually pointless because someone will always be angry at you for some reason no matter how you play) it is but a promil of playerbase

Malprave · June 4

This is something that’s going to be difficult to avoid whenever there’s a release of something new. All I can tell you is this isn’t a good time to be doing content that sees high traffic when players are power leveling. Catch up on other stuff in the game until it blows over.

Mofasa · June 4

I understand that we all have different playstyles and priorities, and I respect that. My original post wasn't meant to suggest that we should all be waiting around for each other or holding back in dungeons. Rather, I was hoping to encourage a bit more awareness and consideration for our fellow players. I think we can all agree that a positive and supportive community is a great thing to strive for, even if we don't always see eye-to-eye on the best way to achieve it.

I appreciate the points made about the importance of efficiency and progress in the game, and I agree that we shouldn't be holding each other back. At the same time, I think it's possible to balance our individual goals with a bit of courtesy and respect for our fellow players. Maybe it's just a matter of being mindful of our surroundings and the other players in the area, and trying to find ways to work together when it makes sense to do so.

I'm not looking to dictate how anyone should play or impose my own opinions on others. I just think that a little bit of kindness and consideration can go a long way in making the game more enjoyable for everyone.

*an AI helped me to transform my thoughts into something that sounds well..*

Calastir · June 4

Helping out other players without asking and shutting down dolmens asap so everyone can claim their rewards quicker is what I consider polite.

thatnewcatsmell · June 4

Waiting a couple of seconds before nuking a delve boss or public dungeon boss when you know someone’s right behind you is good etiquette IMO. Random overland mobs at dark anchors or in public dungeons however are fair game, there’s an abundance of them and they aren’t really a good XP farm or a good test bed for any slightly optimized build to begin with.

tsaescishoeshiner · June 4

I don't think there are crowds testing out subclassing in public dungeons. People are grinding random daily group dungeons (different thing) for experience, or doing other experience grinds.

It's the top 12 players who get credit for loot for a boss. As far as players missing credit, it's really just in a super crowded delve situation where that comes up. It's nice to wait like 1-2 seconds or only light attack when it gets like that in a delve (until it's over 12 people, at which point it's a free-for-all lol). I would just group with players there so credit is shared.

Why would you not attack an enemy that another player is attacking? It doesn't cut the loot or experience in half in any way. If it's personal preference to finish killing enemies yourself, that's not a matter of etiquette, but a unique playstyle that isn't reasonable to expect others to anticipate.

I don't think it's fair to ask other players to not use pulls or knockbacks in overland/casual content (as opposed to messing up tanks in group dungeons). I don't mind them at all, unless there's some specific context this is a problem in.

Maybe this is just me, but whatever editing an AI might be attempting on your posts might also change the content or phrasing, making it harder to trust that what's written is what's intended. For example, public dungeons, group dungeons, and delves are all separate things, and I don't think you have your Companion out in Group Dungeons and letting lower level players kill things slowly, so the meaning might be missed.

SpiritKitten · June 4

I only pass by others' combat if they seem to be a lowbie (I can tell by their outfit). I want them to be able to figure out their rotation and have fun with the combat. Otherwise, everything in my path dies. I do pause a few seconds before killing bosses to see if someone else is coming. If they are a lowbie I just light attack until they get their hit in.

Like in Spellscar for instance, I aoe only once if there are multiple people trying to reach my cluster of mobs, then after they get hits in I do real damage.

But it should be noted that once someone gets a hit in, they get the xp and loot when a mob dies. Unless it's a world boss.

Thysbe · June 4

Mofasa wrote: »

If you see a player engaged in combat with one or more enemies, please refrain from assisting them unless they specifically request help or are on the verge of defeat.

interesting - I personally regard it as rude to run by and not help while I have to clear the adds - especially if they run by, drag the whole dungeon and everything is coming back to me

I do pause a sec in front of bosses too and see that everyone gets a hit

LootAllTheStuff · June 4

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I only pass by others' combat if they seem to be a lowbie (I can tell by their outfit). I want them to be able to figure out their rotation and have fun with the combat. Otherwise, everything in my path dies. I do pause a few seconds before killing bosses to see if someone else is coming. If they are a lowbie I just light attack until they get their hit in.

Like in Spellscar for instance, I aoe only once if there are multiple people trying to reach my cluster of mobs, then after they get hits in I do real damage.

But it should be noted that once someone gets a hit in, they get the xp and loot when a mob dies. Unless it's a world boss.

If in that first situation I see that their health is getting low, I'll drop a group heal which also deals some enemy damage. If it's a tougher boss, I'll make sure to throw in whatever buffs/debuffs I have available, and interrupt the dickens out of its stronger attacks. And if I happen to be on my tank character, I'll taunt/group as much as possible so that the lower level player can whack away from behind the target(s).

Cardhwion · June 4

Dungeons - there is no real "kill stealing" as things are shared. So there is no need to hold back, IMHO. Anf if public dungeons get too crowded, simply go to a base level normal dungeon, which is instanced, problem solved. I tested my new setup in Wayrest Sewers, it was fine.

Dolmens - sorry, but no. I do Dolmens on Fighters Guild Dailys, so to me finishing them fast is what is needed. And others will also wait at other dolmens in the zone to do the same, so do not hold off the dolmen finishing longer than necessary.

Pixiepumpkin · June 4

You see, WOW (and maybe EQ before it, I dunna never played EQ) solved this issue over TWO decades ago.

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Those old devs from decades ago, who pioneered MMORPG's did things for a reason. The issue is devs today do not understand those reasons and undo much of what was done initially for fair and balanced gameplay.

ESO_player123 · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

You see, WOW (and maybe EQ before it, I dunna never played EQ) solved this issue over TWO decades ago.

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Those old devs from decades ago, who pioneered MMORPG's did things for a reason. The issue is devs today do not understand those reasons and undo much of what was done initially for fair and balanced gameplay.

No, thank you. There was tagging in Runescape, so higher level players would just tag a lot of mobs when grinding so that newer players would not have a chance of getting the kills.

Thysbe · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

averyfarmanb14_ESO · June 4

I've little time for this, unfortunately. The mechanics of the game preclude the considered actions because, quite frankly, everyone's here, now, already.

Cardhwion wrote: »

Dungeons - there is no real "kill stealing" as things are shared. So there is no need to hold back, IMHO. Anf if public dungeons get too crowded, simply go to a base level normal dungeon, which is instanced, problem solved. I tested my new setup in Wayrest Sewers, it was fine.

Dolmens - sorry, but no. I do Dolmens on Fighters Guild Dailys, so to me finishing them fast is what is needed. And others will also wait at other dolmens in the zone to do the same, so do not hold off the dolmen finishing longer than necessary.

This, in essence. The suggested "etiquette" expresses preferences, not policies. For dungeons, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people exist and have lives - no orderly queues behind every dungeon encounter so that the previous party can get their photo taken with the talent. For dolmens, you're going to have to accept that not everyone wants to kill every last mob before finishing it off - no need to turn every dolmen into a grind because someone might miss a kill. Neither preference interferes unduly with the game or with other players, as Cardhwion points out, so there's no need for it to become "etiquette."

averyfarmanb14_ESO · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Those old devs from decades ago, who pioneered MMORPG's did things for a reason.

"They didn't know any better" is a reason, as is "they ran on limited resources" and "they had fewer options." There's a reason that WoW Classic exists - so that folks who can't adapt don't get forgotten and have a nice home in which to convalesce. The world moved on.

Ezhh · June 4

Etiquette means something different depending on the people and situation.

If I'm overland grabbing skyshards on a healer or tank build I can't stress how much I welcome people jumping in to kill whatever thing is hitting me. Even on a DD build, I don't mind because overland enemies give me pretty much nothing and are not why I'm there.

Even if I'm farming for actual experience somewhere, I don't mind if someone steps in. Two people sharing targets is really no issue (more can be). If you really want to be alone for levelling there's ways to do that.

If I'm doing dolmens it's almost always for a golden pursuit and I just want it finished as soon as possible (the same as many others will when such a pursuit is up).

So, while I appreciate the overall sentiment, it's not as clear cut as you suggest.

AcadianPaladin · June 4

When in a fight that is not overly dangerous and there are numerous players, I change my rotation to simply weaving light attacks with heals. That helps ensure the boss lasts long enough that everyone gets some hits in.

When soloing a WB and others join in, I don't mind; when encountering someone fighting a WB I normally do jump in. If I really want to ensure solo, I can go to a normal group dungeon for that.

Pixiepumpkin · June 4

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

Just as of a couple hours ago, I was not getting any XP in a dungeon for mobs that I had tagged, that someone else nuked fast.

If what I have witnessed is true and ESO still has a form of "tagging" based on DPS, then I'd definitely prefer the wow system were at least I get something if I tag the mob.

Wuduwasa13 · June 4

Mofasa wrote: »

With the recent release of subclassing, the PvE areas, particularly public dungeons, have become crowded with high-level players testing out their newly maxed-out skills. This has led to a chaotic environment where players are often "stealing" kills, frequently using powerful abilities like the Arcanist's beam attacks.

I would like to see this behavior change, although I’m not optimistic that it will, as it seems many players may not be receptive to feedback. However, I hope we can foster a sense of etiquette regarding behavior in dungeons, dolmens, and other areas.

Dungeons
If you see a player engaged in combat with one or more enemies, please refrain from assisting them unless they specifically request help or are on the verge of defeat.
When fighting a boss, consider holding back on using your ultimate abilities. Allow others to tag the boss first. While I understand that the player dealing the most damage typically receives the loot, it’s important to let everyone participate.

Dolmens
You gain more experience by defeating the mobs that spawn rather than rushing to complete the event. Please avoid activating or closing the four glowing stones as soon as they light up. We miss out on valuable experience if you do this. Let’s take the time to eliminate all the mobs until they stop spawning before closing the stones.
Additionally, please avoid using pull or knockback abilities, as they can be quite disruptive for melee players.
When I enter a dungeon, I always allow lower-level players to engage the mobs on their own. I might help out by tagging bosses or sending in my companion, but I usually stand back and let them take the lead.

Thank you for considering these points!

*This post have been translated from my personal rabbling, full of spelling errors and grammatical madness, to something more sophisticated by Duck.ai*

robwolf666 · June 4

Mofasa wrote: »

With the recent release of subclassing, the PvE areas...

If there's one thing I've learned from playing MMOs, it's that many players prioritize their own progression over the broader player experience. Personally, I think ZoS should introduce penalties for those who camp specific locations to farm XP endlessly. How? I’m not entirely sure, but perhaps implementing diminishing returns—where XP gradually drops to zero if farming continues for too long—could help mitigate the issue.

AlnilamE · June 4

You do realize that if two people are killing the same mobs, they each get loot and that there is an experience bonus, so you actually get more XP, right?

DenverRalphy · June 4

The ESO playerbase as a whole operates under the "Me First" mentality. That's why if there is more than one person at a dolmen, one if not both players will start dropping their nukes where they know the boss will spawn moments before they do. Same in public dungeons and delves. Why fake role queueing is so prevalent in group dungeons. Why events that drop rewards boxes are often a very not-fun experience for new players. Why the moment any one player gets their hands on something others don't, several others will protest loudly unless they too can have it with minimal effort or opportunity. Etc..

It's a mindset that's ran unchecked for over a decade now, and not likely to improve any time soon.