Scribing + Vicious Death, Did the Devs miss something?

NxJoeyD · May 30

Ok, I get the point of Vicious Death and what it’s meant to counter in the game, I’m good with that.

But, I’m seeing a rapidly increasing amount of players running Soul Burst with the “Pull” script while running VD to gank bomb.

Call me confused but isn’t that the precise opposite of what VD is supposed to address in PvP? To encourage less zergs? .. So instead we setup a scribe skill that in essence creates a zerg to bomb?

Soul Burst has no telegraph, an 8 meter range, and can deal pretty heavy burst damage. This can also be combined with proximity stuns which also deal damage but require a break free before being able to dodge clear of the set proc.

IMO this combination makes VD too easy to proc and scale with little to no skill needed.

I understand bombing a group that’s intentionally bunching up; clearly we just don’t do that. But here we have a low cost spam with no telegraph that anyone can use to scoop up players for a bomb. Since it has no telegraph, unless we’re just sitting behind block, we’re going for the ride.

This is especially bobbins in PvP where the objective is area based.

What do we think about a tweak to VD whereby the damage is reduced by 50% if one has a pull ability slotted? This way you still have the full set potential, as designed, but we bypass situations like this; which I’m not sure if the Devs thought about with scribing.

Artim_X · May 30

Soul Burst is fine, the skill has a clear animation around the user that indicates that the pull will occur, the pull occurs after 2 seconds, and the range is just 8 meters.

The rush of agony set on the other hand is what needs to be addressed. (When you deal direct damage with a Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you begin to amass power. After 0.8 seconds, pull enemies within 12 meters... The pull will not apply Crowd Control Immunity to a target). The set has other features, but the range, time for activation, lack of crow control immunity applied, and trigger from a variety of skills is what makes it too strong. Also the chain pull telegraph is not the best. An additional pre pull telegraph would be nice but redundant due to how quickly it procs.

IMHO Vicious Death is fine as is and does not need a nerf. In world full of tanky bois, bombers should exist and thrive.

NxJoeyD · May 30

Artim_X wrote: »

Soul Burst is fine, the skill has a clear animation around the user that indicates that the pull will occur, the pull occurs after 2 seconds, and the range is just 8 meters.

……….

IMHO Vicious Death is fine as is and does not need a nerf. In world full of tanky bois, bombers should exist and thrive.

I hear that, but consider that the two second delay, IMO, is part of the issue. That’s because you don’t have GCD working to balance the combo. One can hit Soul Burst, then they have two seconds to set up any number of AoE damage or CC. If the two second delay wasn’t a factor this would be much less of an issue because the caster would have GCD and the recipient would have a greater opportunity to break CC or dodge before the caster could follow up to cop a death and proc the set.

Plus, Burst is a scribed ability so it doesn’t have a telegraph. This is because the ability isn’t consistent, it can do anything someone scribes it to do. So the animation isn’t really telling. If it were like Usfelds, for example, and the caster glowed orange for the 2 second delay time, well then you’d know there’s a queued action by the glow.

I agree, Rush of Agony is also a problem with this circumstance; even more-so.

I’m not so sure with the thriving bombers. What we’re talking about here is akin to putting a band aid on a compound fracture. The correct thing would be to address the heavily stacked mitigation that’s resulting in the tanky builds; not turning lose spam bombers. All that does is create a bomb vs tank situation and every other build which isn’t a bomb or a tank is left out in the proverbial cold. The upcoming subclassing could make this even worse.

Vicious Death’s existence makes sense from a game logic standpoint; I get it, it’s a way to punish the Zerg groups and I’m on board with that.

What I’m suggesting isn’t exactly a nerf, per se, it would be an adjustment to curb skill-less spam rather than what it was intended for. Remember, not every class or build is a tank so being able to bomb indiscriminately isn’t the answer. In this case, an adjustment to VD wouldn’t prevent bombers but it would prevent spamming skill-less bombers against non Zerg teams.

I run Nibenay Bay in PvP, and that’s a quasi counter here. I say quasi because it’s not a complete counter.

What could also be an option would be to setup VD like Shattered Fate whereby in order to get the damage Proc you’d need 10 pieces rather than just 5. This way you couldn’t pair RoA and VD together.

Listen; I’m not saying bombers shouldn’t exist, I’m saying they should have to work for it like everyone else.

Desiato · May 30

I largely agree with Artim_X, but I don't think AE pulls should function in PVP environments for no other reason than they represent poor, indiscriminate gameplay that disproportionately impacts frontline melee players.

Being pulled constantly is one of the worst parts of ESO PVP for me right now. Put that mechanic in any game and it will suck.

And sure, Soul Burst can be observed, but it is impossible to know its exact parameters. So just because one sees a soul burst doesn't mean they're about to be pulled.

What is the point of VD anymore? For the most part, it only punishes players with competent builds who try to help their squishy teammates by fighting alongside them -- because those squishies were going to die in the initial burst anyway. Those squishies tend to be low apm players who are not responsible for the lag in Cyrodiil. VD has basically been a total design failure.

When VD was introduced, it was highly effective against ball groups, but this hasn't been true for years. It's just a pubstomping tool now.

NxJoeyD · May 30

100% …. If you’ve got a spammy tank group and you’re rocking VD, go on, take ‘em out; that’s the idea, take out groups that are playing with no skill rat strats …. But …. A free, no cost, setup to a bomb is just as rat as what the set was designed to curb in the first place.