ESO Tavern in Germany

UrQuan · May 23

Tazzy wrote: »

This "Castle" is a Youth Hostel, it's not Castle Neu Schwanstein....

Wasserburg Heldrungen is a real castle dating back originally to the 12th century and then rebuilt in the 16th century. Neuschwanstein, on the other hand, is not a real castle. It was built in the 19th century, and it was designed purely for aesthetics, not for defense. It's a 19th century palace designed by a stage designer for operas, not a castle.

Syldras · May 23

UrQuan wrote: »

Wasserburg Heldrungen is a real castle dating back originally to the 12th century and then rebuilt in the 16th century. Neuschwanstein, on the other hand, is not a real castle. It was built in the 19th century, and it was designed purely for aesthetics, not for defense. It's a 19th century palace designed by a stage designer for operas, not a castle.

Isn't "castle" used rather interchangeably for both "Schloss" and "Burg"? Because while Neuschwanstein is no Burg, as the home of the Bavarian king Ludwig II it is a Schloss. Maybe "palace" would be the better word?

Tazzy · May 23

UrQuan wrote: »

Tazzy wrote: »

This "Castle" is a Youth Hostel, it's not Castle Neu Schwanstein....

Wasserburg Heldrungen is a real castle dating back originally to the 12th century and then rebuilt in the 16th century. Neuschwanstein, on the other hand, is not a real castle. It was built in the 19th century, and it was designed purely for aesthetics, not for defense. It's a 19th century palace designed by a stage designer for operas, not a castle.

Thanks for the instruction, but that wasn't my point. My aim was to explain that this castle do not drive up the costs.

UrQuan · May 23

Syldras wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Wasserburg Heldrungen is a real castle dating back originally to the 12th century and then rebuilt in the 16th century. Neuschwanstein, on the other hand, is not a real castle. It was built in the 19th century, and it was designed purely for aesthetics, not for defense. It's a 19th century palace designed by a stage designer for operas, not a castle.

Isn't "castle" used rather interchangeably for both "Schloss" and "Burg"? Because while Neuschwanstein is no Burg, as the home of the Bavarian king Ludwig II it is a Schloss. Maybe "palace" would be the better word?

No, it's not used interchangeably with both of them. A castle is specifically a fortified residence of a powerful family. If it's not fortified, it's not a castle. If it's not a family residence, it's also not a castle (this is why Roman castrums, despite giving us the root for the word castle, aren't considered castles: because they were military forts, not residences). Both elements have to be present, which is why Neuschwanstein is a palace, not a castle (despite the fact that it's frequently erroneously called Castle Neuschwanstein).

UrQuan · May 23

Tazzy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tazzy wrote: »

This "Castle" is a Youth Hostel, it's not Castle Neu Schwanstein....

Wasserburg Heldrungen is a real castle dating back originally to the 12th century and then rebuilt in the 16th century. Neuschwanstein, on the other hand, is not a real castle. It was built in the 19th century, and it was designed purely for aesthetics, not for defense. It's a 19th century palace designed by a stage designer for operas, not a castle.

Thanks for the instruction, but that wasn't my point. My aim was to explain that this castle do not drive up the costs.

Yeah, I know that wasn't your point, just correcting your usage of quotes around the word castle in reference to Wasserburg Heldrungen, when really you should have used them in reference to Neuschwanstein instead of the other way around. Being a real castle doesn't mean it's luxurious or anything: most real castles were anything but luxurious by our standards today!

Syldras · May 23

UrQuan wrote: »

No, it's not used interchangeably with both of them. A castle is specifically a fortified residence of a powerful family. If it's not fortified, it's not a castle. If it's not a family residence, it's also not a castle (this is why Roman castrums, despite giving us the root for the word castle, aren't considered castles: because they were military forts, not residences). Both elements have to be present, which is why Neuschwanstein is a palace, not a castle (despite the fact that it's frequently erroneously called Castle Neuschwanstein).

I know the difference, but I'm talking about the general use, the practice - which you have confirmed in your last sentence. We've got Schloss Charlottenburg in my hometown, which is obviously a palace, but in publications you'll find "Charlottenburg Castle" as often as you find "Charlottenburg Palace". I think many people are not aware of the difference at all, which is why I wrote it's, quote, "used rather interchangeably". I'm sure many people in Germany can't clearly define the differences between Festung, Burg, Palast and Schloss, so how would they even know how to translate it correctly?

UrQuan · May 23

Syldras wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

No, it's not used interchangeably with both of them. A castle is specifically a fortified residence of a powerful family. If it's not fortified, it's not a castle. If it's not a family residence, it's also not a castle (this is why Roman castrums, despite giving us the root for the word castle, aren't considered castles: because they were military forts, not residences). Both elements have to be present, which is why Neuschwanstein is a palace, not a castle (despite the fact that it's frequently erroneously called Castle Neuschwanstein).

I know the difference, but I'm talking about the general use, the practice - which you have confirmed in your last sentence. We've got Schloss Charlottenburg in my hometown, which is obviously a palace, but in publications you'll find "Charlottenburg Castle" as often as you find "Charlottenburg Palace". I think many people are not aware of the difference at all, which is why I wrote it's, quote, "used rather interchangeably". I'm sure many people in Germany can't clearly define the differences between Festung, Burg, Palast and Schloss, so how would they even know how to translate it correctly?

I mean, anyone can name anything whatever they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the name is accurate. People tend to call things castles if they look kind of like a castle, even if they're not castles. It's really no different than places like Cathedral Grove, which definitely isn't a cathedral despite the name (it's a grove of trees), but it's called that because it reminds people of a cathedral.

Urzigurumash · May 24

Burg is fortified, Schloß is not. Castle is fortified, Palace is not. We do use Castle for Schloß but yeah Palace is better I think.

sshogrin · May 24

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I am sure the cancellation of the NA event had to do with more than just budgetary limitations. Be that as it may.

But there is also something to consider, that nobody has brought up yet. Europe is full with historical locations that date back to the middle ages. The US is not.
Nearly all of these locations are either museums, landmarks or touristically used. In addition, central europe has an extremely well developed entertainment sector for all things medieval. For example, what americans call renaissance fairs, we call Mittelaltermarkt. And in my general region you can find a "medieval market day" (litteral translation) every weekend. You just have to be willing to drive an hour. There is so much infrastructure around that is simply there and makes getting to any location so much easier than the US.

Just to make sure you guys understand what point I am making. I live about 50km away from the EU event this summer, in Thuringia. That is a 30min drive by Autobahn or 45min by Landstraße (yes, we have more than just the autobahn, get over it). But the accessbility for the "audience" isn't the point. It's the availability of all those marketeers, showmen and artists that a community event like that needs.
You know, the guys that sell real mead, made of real honey, made by real bees.
The guys that have an archery stand and let you shoot acouple of arrows.
The musicians with the bag pipes and the other weird medieval intruments.
The food guys selling you rustic bread and real Thuringian Bratwurst! (Don't take anything else, this is the real deal, not that fatty crap we export across the big pond).
All these guys can easily get to an event in the middle of nowhere, too.
Plus, Leipzig Airport is an hour away. 45min, if you hit the gas. It is a large intercontinental airport, with a lot of daily flights to nearly all european countries. That's a big factor, too.
(Fun Fact: Leipzig is where they shot the airport fight from Captain America: Civil War).

So, if I am a company that wants to organise a community event for an medieval styled mmo, I have a much easier time doing that in central europe. And with a comparatively smaller price tag, too. It's simply infrastructure.

Also, I dont get why you are all so upset. Meeting your friends irl is not depending on a company sponsored get together. If you wanna meet, organise a meet.

There are a lot of guilds that regularly do that. Although the ones that I know of are all from EU. Including mine. We still try to meet once a year, even after we stopped raiding together a long time ago.

You don't get the point at all.

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget". Now there's somehow money in the budget for Europe, which means they'll fly people to EU and pay for them to be put up somewhere, and pay for their food. It's more expensive to fly them to EU than let them stay at home in Baltimore. To me this is ZOS traveling to where they want to go on the company dollar. They had more events in EU for the 10 year anniversary, and zero in the states. Yes, America is bigger than the entire EU. That's not the point. People in America would travel there. People citing the current social/political state doesn't answer canceling the NA 10 year event. The reality that social/political reasons are why there aren't any events in America is also ridiculous.
The point you're making about where you live is not the same as others in the EU. There are people that live much farther away than you do, so that point is not even a point. That would be like someone from Baltimore that they live 20 minutes from downtown Baltimore, so there isn't a travel issue.
The idea that it's being done in a castle because ESO is a medieval themed mmo is also not really a point since they've held these taverns at places that aren't castles and such.
This has nothing to do with "meeting with friends", this has to do with NA having their 10 year event canceled, and NA not getting any events.
As far as the availability of marketeers, artists, etc...that's just a laughable joke. America has plenty of that, if not more. All of your points are actually non-points and can easily be debunked.

I guess the real question is was the 10 year event canceled in Baltimore because of the crime rate there.

Warhawke_80 · May 24

sshogrin wrote: »

You don't get the point at all.

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget". Now there's somehow money in the budget for Europe, which means they'll fly people to EU and pay for them to be put up somewhere, and pay for their food. It's more expensive to fly them to EU than let them stay at home in Baltimore. To me this is ZOS traveling to where they want to go on the company dollar. They had more events in EU for the 10 year anniversary, and zero in the states. Yes, America is bigger than the entire EU. That's not the point. People in America would travel there. People citing the current social/political state doesn't answer canceling the NA 10 year event. The reality that social/political reasons are why there aren't any events in America is also ridiculous.
The point you're making about where you live is not the same as others in the EU. There are people that live much farther away than you do, so that point is not even a point. That would be like someone from Baltimore that they live 20 minutes from downtown Baltimore, so there isn't a travel issue.
The idea that it's being done in a castle because ESO is a medieval themed mmo is also not really a point since they've held these taverns at places that aren't castles and such.
This has nothing to do with "meeting with friends", this has to do with NA having their 10 year event canceled, and NA not getting any events.
As far as the availability of marketeers, artists, etc...that's just a laughable joke. America has plenty of that, if not more. All of your points are actually non-points and can easily be debunked.

I guess the real question is was the 10 year event canceled in Baltimore because of the crime rate there.

@ZOS_MattFiror

Can we get a confirmation on this? Because the NA player base is left rightfully angry and confused at the current situation.....If the game is financially healthy why can't ZoS afford a ten year event? If you can afford to rent a castle in Europe why ditch the North American audience?

Woeler · May 24

Too many dev-swarmers on NA events.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · May 24

Of what I've heard so is it because the US ones weren't well planned. Using too much money and weren't exactly fun events for players because the focus wasn't on them.

While the EU ones were better planned, less costly, and were more fun for players. Kinda tells when the Amsterdam event was done by the US team instead and it was of what I've been told, to put it politely, not good.

Woeler · May 24

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

While the EU ones were better planned, less costly, and were more fun for players. Kinda tells when the Amsterdam event was done by the US team instead and it was of what I've been told, to put it politely, not good.

Can only 2nd this.

Syldras · May 24

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

If you can afford to rent a castle in Europe

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'd like to point out one thing: It has been a castle, but now it's been a youth hostel since decades, and the hostel is the owner of the whole compound. Youth hostels in Germany are dirt cheap and not luxurious at all (mass accommodation, extremely basic facilities, canteen food). The only fancy thing is the history of the building and the name. Since the structure is property of the German Youth Hostel Association DJH and I roughly know their prices, I think it's very much possible that the rent for this castle was much cheaper than if they had rented a hall at a congress center or a normal hotel.

I'm also wondering whether there's so much organization for events in Germany could be explained with the German ZOS team being dedicated very much. There's also more mod interaction in the German forum - as in actual conversations and discussions with the team.

sshogrin · May 24

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Of what I've heard so is it because the US ones weren't well planned. Using too much money and weren't exactly fun events for players because the focus wasn't on them.

While the EU ones were better planned, less costly, and were more fun for players. Kinda tells when the Amsterdam event was done by the US team instead and it was of what I've been told, to put it politely, not good.

Then let's take a page from the people that planned the EU events that were so successful, even get those people involved, and get something planned over here in North America.
I know people that went to the Vegas event a few years back and enjoyed themselves. If event planning is the problem, then get the people planning the EU events involved so we can have the fun events here.

Urzigurumash · May 25

sshogrin wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I am sure the cancellation of the NA event had to do with more than just budgetary limitations. Be that as it may.

But there is also something to consider, that nobody has brought up yet. Europe is full with historical locations that date back to the middle ages. The US is not.
Nearly all of these locations are either museums, landmarks or touristically used. In addition, central europe has an extremely well developed entertainment sector for all things medieval. For example, what americans call renaissance fairs, we call Mittelaltermarkt. And in my general region you can find a "medieval market day" (litteral translation) every weekend. You just have to be willing to drive an hour. There is so much infrastructure around that is simply there and makes getting to any location so much easier than the US.

Just to make sure you guys understand what point I am making. I live about 50km away from the EU event this summer, in Thuringia. That is a 30min drive by Autobahn or 45min by Landstraße (yes, we have more than just the autobahn, get over it). But the accessbility for the "audience" isn't the point. It's the availability of all those marketeers, showmen and artists that a community event like that needs.
You know, the guys that sell real mead, made of real honey, made by real bees.
The guys that have an archery stand and let you shoot acouple of arrows.
The musicians with the bag pipes and the other weird medieval intruments.
The food guys selling you rustic bread and real Thuringian Bratwurst! (Don't take anything else, this is the real deal, not that fatty crap we export across the big pond).
All these guys can easily get to an event in the middle of nowhere, too.
Plus, Leipzig Airport is an hour away. 45min, if you hit the gas. It is a large intercontinental airport, with a lot of daily flights to nearly all european countries. That's a big factor, too.
(Fun Fact: Leipzig is where they shot the airport fight from Captain America: Civil War).

So, if I am a company that wants to organise a community event for an medieval styled mmo, I have a much easier time doing that in central europe. And with a comparatively smaller price tag, too. It's simply infrastructure.

Also, I dont get why you are all so upset. Meeting your friends irl is not depending on a company sponsored get together. If you wanna meet, organise a meet.

There are a lot of guilds that regularly do that. Although the ones that I know of are all from EU. Including mine. We still try to meet once a year, even after we stopped raiding together a long time ago.

You don't get the point at all.

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget". Now there's somehow money in the budget for Europe, which means they'll fly people to EU and pay for them to be put up somewhere, and pay for their food. It's more expensive to fly them to EU than let them stay at home in Baltimore. To me this is ZOS traveling to where they want to go on the company dollar. They had more events in EU for the 10 year anniversary, and zero in the states. Yes, America is bigger than the entire EU. That's not the point. People in America would travel there. People citing the current social/political state doesn't answer canceling the NA 10 year event. The reality that social/political reasons are why there aren't any events in America is also ridiculous.
The point you're making about where you live is not the same as others in the EU. There are people that live much farther away than you do, so that point is not even a point. That would be like someone from Baltimore that they live 20 minutes from downtown Baltimore, so there isn't a travel issue.
The idea that it's being done in a castle because ESO is a medieval themed mmo is also not really a point since they've held these taverns at places that aren't castles and such.
This has nothing to do with "meeting with friends", this has to do with NA having their 10 year event canceled, and NA not getting any events.
As far as the availability of marketeers, artists, etc...that's just a laughable joke. America has plenty of that, if not more. All of your points are actually non-points and can easily be debunked.

I guess the real question is was the 10 year event canceled in Baltimore because of the crime rate there.

So youve "debunked" every other idea by simply saying you reject it and then say it's because of crime? That was a joke right?

Urzigurumash · May 25

and with the lovely opener, "you dont get it at all"

sshogrin · May 25

Urzigurumash wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I am sure the cancellation of the NA event had to do with more than just budgetary limitations. Be that as it may.

But there is also something to consider, that nobody has brought up yet. Europe is full with historical locations that date back to the middle ages. The US is not.
Nearly all of these locations are either museums, landmarks or touristically used. In addition, central europe has an extremely well developed entertainment sector for all things medieval. For example, what americans call renaissance fairs, we call Mittelaltermarkt. And in my general region you can find a "medieval market day" (litteral translation) every weekend. You just have to be willing to drive an hour. There is so much infrastructure around that is simply there and makes getting to any location so much easier than the US.

Just to make sure you guys understand what point I am making. I live about 50km away from the EU event this summer, in Thuringia. That is a 30min drive by Autobahn or 45min by Landstraße (yes, we have more than just the autobahn, get over it). But the accessbility for the "audience" isn't the point. It's the availability of all those marketeers, showmen and artists that a community event like that needs.
You know, the guys that sell real mead, made of real honey, made by real bees.
The guys that have an archery stand and let you shoot acouple of arrows.
The musicians with the bag pipes and the other weird medieval intruments.
The food guys selling you rustic bread and real Thuringian Bratwurst! (Don't take anything else, this is the real deal, not that fatty crap we export across the big pond).
All these guys can easily get to an event in the middle of nowhere, too.
Plus, Leipzig Airport is an hour away. 45min, if you hit the gas. It is a large intercontinental airport, with a lot of daily flights to nearly all european countries. That's a big factor, too.
(Fun Fact: Leipzig is where they shot the airport fight from Captain America: Civil War).

So, if I am a company that wants to organise a community event for an medieval styled mmo, I have a much easier time doing that in central europe. And with a comparatively smaller price tag, too. It's simply infrastructure.

Also, I dont get why you are all so upset. Meeting your friends irl is not depending on a company sponsored get together. If you wanna meet, organise a meet.

There are a lot of guilds that regularly do that. Although the ones that I know of are all from EU. Including mine. We still try to meet once a year, even after we stopped raiding together a long time ago.

You don't get the point at all.

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget". Now there's somehow money in the budget for Europe, which means they'll fly people to EU and pay for them to be put up somewhere, and pay for their food. It's more expensive to fly them to EU than let them stay at home in Baltimore. To me this is ZOS traveling to where they want to go on the company dollar. They had more events in EU for the 10 year anniversary, and zero in the states. Yes, America is bigger than the entire EU. That's not the point. People in America would travel there. People citing the current social/political state doesn't answer canceling the NA 10 year event. The reality that social/political reasons are why there aren't any events in America is also ridiculous.
The point you're making about where you live is not the same as others in the EU. There are people that live much farther away than you do, so that point is not even a point. That would be like someone from Baltimore that they live 20 minutes from downtown Baltimore, so there isn't a travel issue.
The idea that it's being done in a castle because ESO is a medieval themed mmo is also not really a point since they've held these taverns at places that aren't castles and such.
This has nothing to do with "meeting with friends", this has to do with NA having their 10 year event canceled, and NA not getting any events.
As far as the availability of marketeers, artists, etc...that's just a laughable joke. America has plenty of that, if not more. All of your points are actually non-points and can easily be debunked.

I guess the real question is was the 10 year event canceled in Baltimore because of the crime rate there.

So youve "debunked" every other idea by simply saying you reject it and then say it's because of crime? That was a joke right?

Not blaming it on crime, just making a comment about that issue in the Baltimore area.

Yes, I did debunk your "claims". I actually addressed each one of your points, and pointed out that they are baseless. To you they might not be, but to others they are. Western Europe all together only has 2/3rds the population that America alone has. To think that we couldn't get markateers, artists, etc. is a laughable joke. To think that an event couldn't be planned here just because the Americas doesn't have the medieval history is also a joke.
Again, we had a 10 year anniversary event "planned" in NA, and they canceled due to "budget", but yet they can have multiple events in Europe, which in reality is more expensive for an American based company to participate in due to travel. It will be even more expensive for people in the Americas to try to participate in anything in the EU.
You are truly missing the point with this thread. The real point NA had their events canceled citing budget, but EU had a number of them last year, and now they're planning more in EU. It's not a budget issue. It's things like this that leave a bad taste in customer's mouths and will drive even more players away when they feel like they're being dumped on.

Urzigurumash · May 25

America is less densely populated and more expensive than Western Europe, with longer travel times and more travel expense not only from city to city, but from hotel to venue, and so forth. Right? But you go straight to the

"We're getting dumped on by not having a party thrown for us"

I'd love to attend a party and maybe you're right, I have no idea what's true so I can't "debunk" you, really my point was just that this isn't surprising, like I said concerts draw huge crowds in Europe that they don't in the states. Europeans generally speaking live a more social life than Americans, everyone knows that, and it's really just because of population density.

We have MORE concerts and probably more bars and restaurants and such? But theyre all less attended. That's my read, I could be wrong.

So I find budget, in light of expected attendance, a plausible reason, since they might need 3 to get the same attendance as 1 in Deutschland.

Madarc · May 25

A little off-topic:
Greetings, noble warriors and shieldmaidens of all realms and kingdoms!
Should your paths ever lead you to Germany, to the so-called dark ‘Sauerland’ ... don't miss one of the most beautiful medieval (and intact) castles on your way: ‘Burg Altena’

THIS is what you can call a castle!

(Google Earth Screenshot)
https://earth.google.com/web/@51.30017709,7.67482065,251.782896a,260.09403683d,35y,122.86406338h,71.15711025t,0r/data=CgRCAggBQgIIAEoNCP___________wEQAA

But don't be too sad, because at least visually and ambience-wise you won't miss too much at the 2025 celebration.
Sure, I also think it's a shame that there's no event in the motherland of “The Elder Scrolls”.
At least I would have been interested to see photos of this gathering and how you all would celebrate there.
Even if it were to take place in Cinderella's castle in Disneyland, Ceasars Palace to ensure a medieval ambience...or somewhere in any nice places...

But it's not the ambiance that makes a meetup like this great, it's the live meetup and getting to know the own community, maybe in-game friends, and all that kind of stuff.
Anyway, so I can understand the disappointment of the US community very well.

Maybe, even if only a weak compensation... an in-game community meeting on the NA server would be a nice idea.
That way players from all nations could participate. (...until the servers crash...

)

So good luck to you all and may our paths cross one day, at least in Tamriel!

Zodiarkslayer · May 25

sshogrin wrote: »

You don't get the point at all.

I do. The point is that EU got something that NA didn't.

And ZOS doesn't even bother to explain why. Because "budgetary reasons" is such an obvious scapegoat, that a company would only use that kind of terminology to soften up perception of some serious mess, that needs to be handled internally. Not publicly.

And some people just can't handle that.

My previous post was just a speculation on soft facts that might have influenced the decision as well, by giving examples from personal experience in the hopes of broadening the perspective of others reading this thread.

You know, instead of spreading anger and bitterness.

Tazzy · May 25

sshogrin wrote: »

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget".

I have never seen any justification from ZOS that they have canceled the event for budget reasons. Where did you get that from? The forum announcement provided no justification.

That was their statement in the forum:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/669977/an-update-on-the-2025-eso-10-year-anniversary-celebration-in-person-event-plans

sshogrin · May 29

Tazzy wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

We had a 10 year anniversary even planned in America. ZOS cancelled it due to "budget".

I have never seen any justification from ZOS that they have canceled the event for budget reasons. Where did you get that from? The forum announcement provided no justification.

That was their statement in the forum:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/669977/an-update-on-the-2025-eso-10-year-anniversary-celebration-in-person-event-plans

Maybe so, but they could have kept their word since it was already being planned. They could have also made a small gathering here in the states then.

If they plan on focusing on the game, they need to fix the "booted from server" issues and "an unexpected error has occurred" issues. Not plan events over in Europe to go to while doing nothing for NA.