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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685477
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685477
Suggestion: Daily beginner dungeon (quest gated)
ImmortalCX
✭✭✭✭✭
(I am making this suggestion because ZOS is obviously concerned with improving the new player experience, with efforts to overhaul the beginner zones.)
One of the most frustrating things about ESO has always been the inability to enjoy the dungeon story content. In fact, to this day I really never got to appreciate any of it and I have completed everything.
The reason is that once every one else has completed the quests, they have the ability to run ahead and leave behind the new players. This creates a sense of anxiety and time pressure. Even if you are allowed to watch the short quest dialogues, you are thinking about repairs, drinks, and then having to sprint to the next location to catch up.
This gets a 0/10 for new player experience.
What I am suggesting is to put gating into a set of beginner dugeons that restrict physical progression until quest markers have been complete, and also that forces everyone in the group to experience the quest. This way, anyone who participates in a "beginner" version of the dungeon is guaranteed to experience the story.
This is absolutely one of the most horrible and janky aspects of ESO that has been here from the beginning and that we have all been conditioned to live with.
What I am suggesting is that there is a daily "beginner dungeon" (quest gated), perhaps given by the undaunted that allows anyone to experience dungeons with story mode. Only one beginner dungeon per day would guarantee people get groups to run them, and would enable experienced players like me to properly experience the quests (that were all rushed through when I did them the first time.)
I just completed some of the later DLC dungeons and it was heartbreaking to have to experience them for the first time with the rest of the group in farming mode and not seeing the story or even understanding the theme of why we are there.
Please fix this. I know that putting time/location gates into the dungeons would not be without some work, might even require some invisible walls or even rooting players in place while quest dialogues play, but it would dramatically improve the new player experience.
One of the most frustrating things about ESO has always been the inability to enjoy the dungeon story content. In fact, to this day I really never got to appreciate any of it and I have completed everything.
The reason is that once every one else has completed the quests, they have the ability to run ahead and leave behind the new players. This creates a sense of anxiety and time pressure. Even if you are allowed to watch the short quest dialogues, you are thinking about repairs, drinks, and then having to sprint to the next location to catch up.
This gets a 0/10 for new player experience.
What I am suggesting is to put gating into a set of beginner dugeons that restrict physical progression until quest markers have been complete, and also that forces everyone in the group to experience the quest. This way, anyone who participates in a "beginner" version of the dungeon is guaranteed to experience the story.
This is absolutely one of the most horrible and janky aspects of ESO that has been here from the beginning and that we have all been conditioned to live with.
What I am suggesting is that there is a daily "beginner dungeon" (quest gated), perhaps given by the undaunted that allows anyone to experience dungeons with story mode. Only one beginner dungeon per day would guarantee people get groups to run them, and would enable experienced players like me to properly experience the quests (that were all rushed through when I did them the first time.)
I just completed some of the later DLC dungeons and it was heartbreaking to have to experience them for the first time with the rest of the group in farming mode and not seeing the story or even understanding the theme of why we are there.
Please fix this. I know that putting time/location gates into the dungeons would not be without some work, might even require some invisible walls or even rooting players in place while quest dialogues play, but it would dramatically improve the new player experience.
5
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tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭That seems to me the wrong way to go about it. Forcing other people to play the way you want is not good. Perhaps a story-mode instance that you could enter solo and just do the quest in your own time would allow you to complete the story and get the quest skill point?
I'd imagine if something like this was implemented as you describe, most other players would just drop out of your random dungeon group and re-queue until they got a quest-free instance.
After all, if the quester takes their time and slows the group down to a minimum movement as is possible with the OP proposal then it would be quicker for others to leave and eat the quit penalty - which would likely stop the quester from continuing with and completing the quest, especially if a beginner.3 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭New forum thread dungeon complaint: "I can't complete my quest because everyone leaves at the first quest stall point". /s4 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭That seems to me the wrong way to go about it. Forcing other people to play the way you want is not good. Perhaps a story-mode instance that you could enter solo and just do the quest in your own time would allow you to complete the story and get the quest skill point?
I'd imagine if something like this was implemented as you describe, most other players would just drop out of your random dungeon group and re-queue until they got a quest-free instance.
After all, if the quester takes their time and slows the group down to a minimum movement as is possible with the OP proposal then it would be quicker for others to leave and eat the quit penalty - which would likely stop the quester from continuing with and completing the quest, especially if a beginner.
This is not forcing other people to do it, because they can still run original way.
This is just a quest gated daily instance that people can run, only if they want to experience the story.
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ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭New forum thread dungeon complaint: "I can't complete my quest because everyone leaves at the first quest stall point". /s
If you read my suggestion correctly, you wouldn't have been able to make your trollish rebuke.
The suggestion was for an additional daily "beginner" instance that is quest gated and lets people experience the story.4 -
randconfig✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. It's a horrible experience when you're just getting into the game, and have no idea what's going on during your first dungeons. The following needs to be addressed:- Remove dungeon quests where you wait in place for an NPC to anime walk in and/or monologue.
- Remove walls of text from interactions with NPCs.
- Embrace a "show, don't tell" philosophy. Replace 2 and 3 with NPCs walk with the ground and talk, have a mage NPC talk telepathically with the ground, show an NPC taking out another NPC in the background, NPCs doing things during different stages of a boss fight in the background, and so on.
- Add physical barriers between players and subsequent bosses when at least 1 player in the party is doing the quest.
Doing the dungeon as intended should be the rule, and speedrunning the exception, NOT THE REVERSE. This also removes the need for the JOINING ENCOUNTER IN PROGRESS bandaid solution.Edited by randconfig on 17 May 2025 18:082 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭ImmortalCX wrote: »New forum thread dungeon complaint: "I can't complete my quest because everyone leaves at the first quest stall point". /s
If you read my suggestion correctly, you wouldn't have been able to make your trollish rebuke.
The suggestion was for an additional daily "beginner" instance that is quest gated and lets people experience the story.
You're right - I apologise: I skimmed and misread your intent( been away from forum for a while and skimming a lot in fast catch-up). In fairness, the OP can be read both ways as written but thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I have no problem with a completely separate option added to the 'Group Finder' that would permit exclusively questers to run a quest-only instance. Although, I still think a solo instance would have utility in this regard.
My additional remark was meant as nothing more than a harmless throwaway quip in good humour, nothing trollish or rebutting intended or actually in there regardless.
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ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭randconfig wrote: »Agreed. It's a horrible experience when you're just getting into the game, and have no idea what's going on during your first dungeons. The following needs to be addressed:
- Remove dungeon quests where you wait in place for an NPC to anime walk in and/or monologue.
- Remove walls of text from interactions with NPCs.
- Embrace a "show, don't tell" philosophy. Replace 2 and 3 with NPCs walk with the ground and talk, have a mage NPC talk telepathically with the ground, show an NPC taking out another NPC in the background, NPCs doing things during different stages of a boss fight in the background, and so on.
- Add physical barriers between players and subsequent bosses when at least 1 player in the party is doing the quest.
Doing the dungeon as intended should be the rule, and speedrunning the exception, NOT THE REVERSE. This also removes the need for the JOINING ENCOUNTER IN PROGRESS bandaid solution.
I agree it would take a good bit of work, but I believe it would pay dividends. The DLC dungeons are some of the best content in the game, putting the gameplay in the context of the story would really increase enjoyment and get rid of the quest anxiety we all have felt when running for the first time.
I propose that over time they provide "story mode" dungeons and add them to a daily undaunted rotation. And that dungeons will have three modes (when available): normal, vet, story. So people could explicitly choose story for guild runs.
It wouldn't change the speedrunning of everyone else, but let people experience the stories if/when we want.1 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think it's a fallacy to assume that everyone who complains about speed running would all agree with each other about how much time is appropriate to read quest dialogue. And have you ever done MHK or Icereach with the players who want to loot every single container?
Furthermore, methods would need to be devised to prevent griefing -- because this involves other people. Some people would join such groups just to be __as__slow__as__possible__.
I also think such a mode sets the wrong expectations in a multiplayer game. When we play with other random strangers, we need be considerate of their preferences as well. In general, most players are going to want to complete content quickly.
But the solution to your problem already exists. I felt the same as you in 2014, so I waited before completing dungeons until I had a like-minded activity partner who I duo'd dungeons with the first time so we could give each other time to read dialogue.
I have also observed several casual guilds on PC/NA that exist for this purpose.
Ultimately, this is a social platform. There's no other reason for it to be online. The basis of human relationships is shared goals. That is, we need problems that require working with others to solve. This goes deeper than mashing buttons in pugs with people that were selected randomly for us. It also involves reaching out and making connections. This is one of the motivations players have to do so.
Edited by Desiato on 17 May 2025 18:58spending a year dead for tax reasons2 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭I think it's a fallacy to assume that everyone who complains about speed running would all agree with each other about how much time is appropriate to read quest dialogue. And have you ever done MHK or Icereach with the players who want to loot every single container?
Furthermore, methods would need to be devised to prevent griefing -- because this involves other people. Some people would join such groups just to be __as__slow__as__possible__.
I also think such a mode sets the wrong expectations in a multiplayer game. When we play with other random strangers, we need be considerate of their preferences as well. In general, most players are going to want to complete content quickly.
But the solution to your problem already exists. I felt the same as you in 2014, so I waited before completing dungeons until I had a like-minded activity partner who I duo'd dungeons with the first time so we could give each other time to read dialogue.
I have also observed several casual guilds on PC/NA that exist for this purpose.
Ultimately, this is a social platform. There's no other reason for it to be online. The basis of human relationships is shared goals. That is, we need problems that require working with others to solve. This goes deeper than mashing buttons in pugs with people that were selected randomly for us. It also involves reaching out and making connections. This is one of the motivations players have to do so.
Its not just a social problem. Once you have run the quest the first time, you don't have the option to run it again. Most people aren't going to reroll on the hope that they get a good run of an old dungeon.
So this is absolutely something that requires a technical fix.0 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »Its not just a social problem. Once you have run the quest the first time, you don't have the option to run it again. Most people aren't going to reroll on the hope that they get a good run of an old dungeon.
So this is absolutely something that requires a technical fix.
There's nothing forcing someone to utilize the activity finder! It is a convenience to help streamline activities. Like I said, in 2014 I wanted to experience the dungeon quests, so I chose as a new player to avoid dungeon pugs until I could do that.
I'm not arguing against the feature you're asking for. ZOS has said something like that is on their radar, but it is an undertaking to implement.
What I am saying is it is currently within your power to solve your problem. And considering a level 10 character can start dungeons, I think it's pretty easy to do the quests again on a second character. Obviously this is a very alt friendly game.spending a year dead for tax reasons0 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think it's a fallacy to assume that everyone who complains about speed running would all agree with each other about how much time is appropriate to read quest dialogue. And have you ever done MHK or Icereach with the players who want to loot every single container?
Furthermore, methods would need to be devised to prevent griefing -- because this involves other people. Some people would join such groups just to be __as__slow__as__possible__.
I also think such a mode sets the wrong expectations in a multiplayer game. When we play with other random strangers, we need be considerate of their preferences as well. In general, most players are going to want to complete content quickly.
But the solution to your problem already exists. I felt the same as you in 2014, so I waited before completing dungeons until I had a like-minded activity partner who I duo'd dungeons with the first time so we could give each other time to read dialogue.
I have also observed several casual guilds on PC/NA that exist for this purpose.
Ultimately, this is a social platform. There's no other reason for it to be online. The basis of human relationships is shared goals. That is, we need problems that require working with others to solve. This goes deeper than mashing buttons in pugs with people that were selected randomly for us. It also involves reaching out and making connections. This is one of the motivations players have to do so.
I was lucky to find a weekly dungeon group a couple of years ago, but they have moved on. It was really great, we could farm dungeons quickly for the stickerbook because there was no waiting in the queue. It is not easy to find players in your guild that are available to run at the same time you do or are willing to do so.
Also, no one in these threads say they want to loot every container, they are just talking about being able to hear the dialogue and be able to turn in the quest at the end (and be able to pick up the quest before some player causes them to miss it). Mentioning this just exaggerates the reply to make it sound worse than it is.
I get frustrated with these responses because it should be obvious that no one would post a thread on this topic if they had like-minded people to play with in the first place. Why would they wait out the queue, which is typically 30 minutes for me as a dps, if that option was available to them? Also, yes, there is the group finder but my success with that has been zero at this point if I post them. I don’t see others posting groups for dungeons either, just trials when they come up for Endeavors or Golden Pursuits. I think if that tool had been in place years ago people might be using it more now.
Lastly, the argument that someone who wants to complete the content as intended, using the dungeon finder for a group as intended, is supposed to be alright with either not being able to pick up the quest the first time, not being able to complete the quest, and being pulled into every boss encounter is unreasonable.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA0 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭katanagirl1 wrote: »Also, no one in these threads say they want to loot every container, they are just talking about being able to hear the dialogue and be able to turn in the quest at the end (and be able to pick up the quest before some player causes them to miss it). Mentioning this just exaggerates the reply to make it sound worse than it is.
The point is that we all have different preferences about how much time we like to spend on things and therefore not everyone in the 'slow mode' dungeon camp would have the same preference. I pointed out that many players like to loot all containers -- especially overland players! -- to illustrate this.
You would have to ask them why. I would assume that they don't want to expend time and energy necessary to do so. I choose to do things alone for this reason sometimes -- it might be faster with others, but it is not worth the social investment and requirements.katanagirl1 wrote: »I get frustrated with these responses because it should be obvious that no one would post a thread on this topic if they had like-minded people to play with in the first place. Why would they wait out the queue, which is typically 30 minutes for me as a dps, if that option was available to them? Also, yes, there is the group finder but my success with that has been zero at this point if I post them. I don’t see others posting groups for dungeons either, just trials when they come up for Endeavors or Golden Pursuits. I think if that tool had been in place years ago people might be using it more now.
But I know those environments are plentiful in ESO. I am in trade and trial guilds and I observe players make arrangements to do so. And when browsing the guild finder I always see multiple active guilds that advertise this.Lastly, the argument that someone who wants to complete the content as intended, using the dungeon finder for a group as intended, is supposed to be alright with either not being able to pick up the quest the first time, not being able to complete the quest, and being pulled into every boss encounter is unreasonable.
The purpose of the dungeon finder is to streamline the creation of pick up groups which used to happen in zone chat. The reason why quests have such elaborate stories with dialogue that takes time to observe is because of the schism that exists between its identity as a TES game and its identity as an MMO. Just because elaborate quest dialogue exists doesn't mean it was intended to be consumed in pugs with random strangers.
Again, I am not arguing against the feature. But I am saying there are currently solutions available and when this mode is finally implemented, it might not be as nice as people think because the preferences among slow runners will still vary.
Edited by Desiato on 17 May 2025 20:34spending a year dead for tax reasons0 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just wanted to add you might be surprised how well a low level but well geared character(crafted gear too) can solo a lot of the base game dungeons, DLC's are another matter but my level 13 Templar solo-ed a lot when I got my free Epic account, I did have a companion too but that was also low level.
She had no CP's to slot at that time either!When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!0