BasP wrote: »

It buffs Necromancer abilities and all DOTs.

shame, hoped it would buff all CLASS abilities for all classes selected in sub classing - they should probably change the wording to specifically say necromancer abilities

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

It buffs Necromancer abilities and all DOTs.

shame, hoped it would buff all CLASS abilities for all classes selected in sub classing - they should probably change the wording to specifically say necromancer abilities

That wording is changing in the patch.

It did used to work by buffing all Class abilities in the first week, which resulted in absurd damage output.

Wasn't most of that interaction due to Beam and Radiant Oppression, both of which are now changed.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

It buffs Necromancer abilities and all DOTs.

shame, hoped it would buff all CLASS abilities for all classes selected in sub classing - they should probably change the wording to specifically say necromancer abilities

That wording is changing in the patch.

It did used to work by buffing all Class abilities in the first week, which resulted in absurd damage output.

Wasn't most of that interaction due to Beam and Radiant Oppression, both of which are now changed.

The beams were changed from being DoT to direct, but they’re still class skills, so GLS would still buff them if not restricted to Necro only.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Which patch changed GLS to Necro only? Cuz I'm not seeing it mentioned anywhere.

I believe that change was part of the week 1 patch.

I took the new description on the spell to mean only necro abilities and necro dots...it's an ambiguous grammar thing, as it could mean either all dots or also necro dots. It is not clear, but based on the context, I think it means only necro dots.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I also just love the blatant Golden Child class favoritism.

Nightblade gets an out-of-nowhere free ~6% Crit Chance (the rarest and most valuable stat in the game) for simply existing (plus more if you slot Nightblade skills, which you will) that is like obvious and unnecessary PvE power creep.

Vs. Necro's specialist skill, that is a fairly garbo DPS loss on its own and is only strong in the context of buffing other classes' skills, gets the hard nerf because suddenly now we decide to care about power creep.

Like... make this make sense.

To be fair they went both directions with multiple skills, it seems they became hyper focused in some areas enough to nerf them, only to ignore others.

Eg.

Daedric Prey only effects Sorc pets, because all pets would of been a problem apparently even though they could have done it in a more nuanced way like "50% Daedric, 25% non-Daedric".

Then you have Templar's Barrage giving +5% class damage, seemingly left alone because the value is so low they consider this to be a negligible bonus that won't rock the boat...I gueeeeesss?

And I'm sure there's more examples elsewhere I'm not thinking of, but this idea of making some effect all classes and some effect the specific class is terrible. Either choose 1 way or the other, preferably all classes, then better incentivise pure 3/3 classes to actually be a thing. They just chose the least effort approach because they couldn't be bothered to properly balance everything in 1 patch, this is going to take years at the rate they operate.

Also if you break down the math using set standards and their patch notes, you can see why they chose the values that they did, it doesn't make it right, but it is objective. The fact of the matter is, stats like crit chance are more valuable than any other damage stat.

You can see it here: 2% w s damage for Sorc skills slotted changed to 108 w s DMG. This is 83.3% the value of a 2-4p bonus. They applied this to NB's, which is why they get 2.5% crit chance per slotted. As seen on weapons, crit DMG is double that of crit chance, so Warden's get 5% per slotted, then you have pen from Arc for 1487 x 0.833 is 1239. Same goes for the armor bonuses found elsewhere, then there is "when x is active or slotted", but just once, you get like 3.2k pen/armor, those are 2.2x stronger than a set piece.

As to why the crit from flank value is 6.6% is probably due to how they balanced Necro. They get 20% crit to enemies below 33% HP, so on paper that is an average of 6.6% crit for something you can't really control. Flanking you can control based on positioning, so they landed on 6.6% for NB too. Funny enough it initially started at 8.8% which means they thought flanking was rarer than it was, so much so they thought it should be more powerful than Necro's passive. I can see the logic of the added 2.2% because flanking isn't a guarentee in solo, but in pretty much everything else, the 270 degrees around your target makes it more than easy. Frankly the value should be like 4.4%-5% really seeing as the execute phase of any fight is the fastest.

These aren't coincidences, they're calculated decisions based on spreadsheets that paint all stats in an objective truth when that's not the case. For example, although Sorc's 108 w s DMG is equal in value to NB's 2.5% crit AND effects all Sorc skills instead of Assassination, NB's still comes out much stronger and more useful. They used 0 context for how these passives actually play out. NB's and anyone subclassing can easily front bar Grim Focus, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, and Incap for a total of 10% Crit Chance where as Sorc's will never use 4/6 abilities from Storm Calling alone, especially on front bar, Surge/Streak are utility/back bar, Lightning Splash and Hurricane are long form so back barred, Mages Fury pales in comparison to Killer's Blade and even Impale but it's the only skill you would front bar, and finally Overload is only useful for pvp and pve parse cheesing... Which you would also probably back bar lol.

108 is strong, but it's only useful when you keep 2 or 3 Sorc lines, which sucks in a subclassing world where everyone is getting much more power from dropping their healing/tanking lines and Sorc is a mixed bag that feels like it needs to keep 2 or even all 3. It would have made much more sense to give it the "when slotted get a flat x" effect, but Arcanist stole that with their "284 w s DMG when restored mag/stam" and Templar's kept their 6% multiplier. They just had to make Sorc different and while I somewhat agree, it just doesn't work given the situation right now.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I also just love the blatant Golden Child class favoritism.

Nightblade gets an out-of-nowhere free ~6% Crit Chance (the rarest and most valuable stat in the game) for simply existing (plus more if you slot Nightblade skills, which you will) that is like obvious and unnecessary PvE power creep.

Vs. Necro's specialist skill, that is a fairly garbo DPS loss on its own and is only strong in the context of buffing other classes' skills, gets the hard nerf because suddenly now we decide to care about power creep.

Like... make this make sense.

To be fair they went both directions with multiple skills, it seems they became hyper focused in some areas enough to nerf them, only to ignore others.

Eg.

Daedric Prey only effects Sorc pets, because all pets would of been a problem apparently even though they could have done it in a more nuanced way like "50% Daedric, 25% non-Daedric".

Then you have Templar's Barrage giving +5% class damage, seemingly left alone because the value is so low they consider this to be a negligible bonus that won't rock the boat...I gueeeeesss?

And I'm sure there's more examples elsewhere I'm not thinking of, but this idea of making some effect all classes and some effect the specific class is terrible. Either choose 1 way or the other, preferably all classes, then better incentivise pure 3/3 classes to actually be a thing. They just chose the least effort approach because they couldn't be bothered to properly balance everything in 1 patch, this is going to take years at the rate they operate.

Also if you break down the math using set standards and their patch notes, you can see why they chose the values that they did, it doesn't make it right, but it is objective. The fact of the matter is, stats like crit chance are more valuable than any other damage stat.

You can see it here: 2% w s damage for Sorc skills slotted changed to 108 w s DMG. This is 83.3% the value of a 2-4p bonus. They applied this to NB's, which is why they get 2.5% crit chance per slotted. As seen on weapons, crit DMG is double that of crit chance, so Warden's get 5% per slotted, then you have pen from Arc for 1487 x 0.833 is 1239. Same goes for the armor bonuses found elsewhere, then there is "when x is active or slotted", but just once, you get like 3.2k pen/armor, those are 2.2x stronger than a set piece.

As to why the crit from flank value is 6.6% is probably due to how they balanced Necro. They get 20% crit to enemies below 33% HP, so on paper that is an average of 6.6% crit for something you can't really control. Flanking you can control based on positioning, so they landed on 6.6% for NB too. Funny enough it initially started at 8.8% which means they thought flanking was rarer than it was, so much so they thought it should be more powerful than Necro's passive. I can see the logic of the added 2.2% because flanking isn't a guarentee in solo, but in pretty much everything else, the 270 degrees around your target makes it more than easy. Frankly the value should be like 4.4%-5% really seeing as the execute phase of any fight is the fastest.

These aren't coincidences, they're calculated decisions based on spreadsheets that paint all stats in an objective truth when that's not the case. For example, although Sorc's 108 w s DMG is equal in value to NB's 2.5% crit AND effects all Sorc skills instead of Assassination, NB's still comes out much stronger and more useful. They used 0 context for how these passives actually play out. NB's and anyone subclassing can easily front bar Grim Focus, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, and Incap for a total of 10% Crit Chance where as Sorc's will never use 4/6 abilities from Storm Calling alone, especially on front bar, Surge/Streak are utility/back bar, Lightning Splash and Hurricane are long form so back barred, Mages Fury pales in comparison to Killer's Blade and even Impale but it's the only skill you would front bar, and finally Overload is only useful for pvp and pve parse cheesing... Which you would also probably back bar lol.

108 is strong, but it's only useful when you keep 2 or 3 Sorc lines, which sucks in a subclassing world where everyone is getting much more power from dropping their healing/tanking lines and Sorc is a mixed bag that feels like it needs to keep 2 or even all 3. It would have made much more sense to give it the "when slotted get a flat x" effect, but Arcanist stole that with their "284 w s DMG when restored mag/stam" and Templar's kept their 6% multiplier. They just had to make Sorc different and while I somewhat agree, it just doesn't work given the situation right now.

Super high-quality post, as always.

The like distilled essence of why the out-of-nowhere Nightblade Crit Chance buff is so infuriating is because they took what used to be a PvP passive that contributed nothing to PvE power creep and then decided to intentionally create an additional huge amount of PvE power creep. And then nerfed several other classes for having lesser versions of said power creep.

It is entirely incoherent and does nothing but give further grist to the mill that certain classes are the Golden Children and that they simply cannot resist randomly buffing them every single patch.