Proposed change to Oakensoul

ApoAlaia · April 30

Since release, both directly and indirectly (through the change to destro staff passives for instance) a lot of 'power' has been 'peeled back' from this mythic, to the point that in many scenarios using this mythic is a 'self imposed nerf', and a one-bar build without it is more effective.

With the coming subclassing this is going to be even more apparent.

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

Ragnarok0130 · April 30

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

I’m not expert on Oakensoul but doesn’t it already work this way? By that I mean if a skill says a buff applied while slotted on either bar” that buff should already work if it’s not already covered by Oakensoul’s buff list if it’s slotted on the back bar because the mythic just prevents you from bar swapping you can still fill out your back bar.

ApoAlaia · April 30

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

I’m not expert on Oakensoul but doesn’t it already work this way? By that I mean if a skill says a buff applied while slotted on either bar” that buff should already work if it’s not already covered by Oakensoul’s buff list if it’s slotted on the back bar because the mythic just prevents you from bar swapping you can still fill out your back bar.

Not the last time I tried.

I have to put my hand up, haven't used it for a while - because of how much of a self-nerf it is in its current form - might do tonight just in case but last time I used it equipping it completely negated anything slotted the back bar.

virtus753 · April 30

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

I’m not expert on Oakensoul but doesn’t it already work this way? By that I mean if a skill says a buff applied while slotted on either bar” that buff should already work if it’s not already covered by Oakensoul’s buff list if it’s slotted on the back bar because the mythic just prevents you from bar swapping you can still fill out your back bar.

No, the mythic disables your back bar. This was clarified in an update where they fixed an issue where some skills were working from the back bar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/640050/pts-patch-notes-v9-1-3#latest

“Fixed an issue where slotted passive effects that persisted through bar swap, such as Grim Focus, could benefit targets under the influence of Oakensoul or Werewolf."

ApoAlaia · April 30

virtus753 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

I’m not expert on Oakensoul but doesn’t it already work this way? By that I mean if a skill says a buff applied while slotted on either bar” that buff should already work if it’s not already covered by Oakensoul’s buff list if it’s slotted on the back bar because the mythic just prevents you from bar swapping you can still fill out your back bar.

No, the mythic disables your back bar. This was clarified in an update where they fixed an issue where some skills were working from the back bar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/640050/pts-patch-notes-v9-1-3#latest

“Fixed an issue where slotted passive effects that persisted through bar swap, such as Grim Focus, could benefit targets under the influence of Oakensoul or Werewolf."

Thank you, saves me having to check, much appreciated

Ragnarok0130 · April 30

virtus753 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Hence the proposal: you cannot cast active skills on the back bar but you still can passively benefit from skills slotted in the back bar (buffs, passive bonuses etc).

Without this change it will invariably sink into F tier.

I’m not expert on Oakensoul but doesn’t it already work this way? By that I mean if a skill says a buff applied while slotted on either bar” that buff should already work if it’s not already covered by Oakensoul’s buff list if it’s slotted on the back bar because the mythic just prevents you from bar swapping you can still fill out your back bar.

No, the mythic disables your back bar. This was clarified in an update where they fixed an issue where some skills were working from the back bar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/640050/pts-patch-notes-v9-1-3#latest

“Fixed an issue where slotted passive effects that persisted through bar swap, such as Grim Focus, could benefit targets under the influence of Oakensoul or Werewolf."

Thank you for the clarification.

Stx · May 1

Subclassing is an indirect nerf to Oakensoul as well because of the increased flexibility in mixing skills with those buffs together from multiple classes.

kevkj · May 1

It's not the only Mythic to fall by the wayside, and maybe that's ok. The PVE playstyle the ring originally popularized will remain quite usable especially with subclassing and scribing being added to base game, so it's no big loss. The people who have attached their ESO identity to the mythic will continue to do so whether it is buffed or nerfed.

Khanmorte · May 1

I am unsure how this suggestion would resolve the fact that Oakensoul has been a victim of power creep. In the next patch, Heavy Attack builds are getting a new Mythic, Rakkhat's Voidmantle, that will probably be the BIS subject to PTS changes.

You can already put together a build with a passive backbar for buffs only without Oakensoul and in the next patch you will be able to build an Oakensoul equivalent using passive skills on the backbar and subclassing. Allowing backbar abilites to apply while Oakensoul is equiped will not help Oakensoul. With 3 or 4 exceptions the effects you will gain from the backbar are already provided by Oakensoul. For Oakensoul to remain relevant it will have to be reverted close to its orginal incarnation, Minor Force, Beserk, and Courage, would need to be changed to the Major versions for example.

ApoAlaia · May 1

Khanmorte wrote: »

I am unsure how this suggestion would resolve the fact that Oakensoul has been a victim of power creep. In the next patch, Heavy Attack builds are getting a new Mythic, Rakkhat's Voidmantle, that will probably be the BIS subject to PTS changes.

You can already put together a build with a passive backbar for buffs only without Oakensoul and in the next patch you will be able to build an Oakensoul equivalent using passive skills on the backbar and subclassing. Allowing backbar abilites to apply while Oakensoul is equiped will not help Oakensoul. With 3 or 4 exceptions the effects you will gain from the backbar are already provided by Oakensoul. For Oakensoul to remain relevant it will have to be reverted close to its orginal incarnation, Minor Force, Beserk, and Courage, would need to be changed to the Major versions for example.

Was just something that might allow it to stay at least a little bit relevant in some scenarios without 'alerting the horde'.

Having skills slotted on the back bar that may enable beneficial class passives from different classes might give it a bit of an 'oomph'?

While the spotlight is on Arcanist maybe something mildly nice can slip through.

LunaFlora · May 1

i would like this change a lot, if it happened

SkaiFaith · May 1

Khanmorte wrote: »

For Oakensoul to remain relevant it will have to be reverted close to its orginal incarnation, Minor Force, Beserk, and Courage, would need to be changed to the Major versions for example.

Agree, at least Major Berserk and Major Courage should return to Oakensoul. Especially since the minor versions it has now are the ones often found in scribing skills, making them redundantly useless.

Renato90085 · May 1

I doubt it never happen...Zos never buff any old weak mythics when they add any new meta mythics..

dark_hunterxmg · May 2

I bet we could put together something with Monomyth Reforged and outperform Oakensoul while spending minimal time on the back bar.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

Zyaneth_Bal · May 2

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

Indeed. Not to mention, that the “self imposed nerf” OP mentions is the very core of oakensoul. If you don’t like the set or think it’s too weak, then just don’t use it? There is an infinite number of sets that need buffs, why oakensoul when it isn’t even one of them? I swear some ppl build their whole personalities around oakensoul

Zyaneth_Bal · May 2

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I bet we could put together something with Monomyth Reforged and outperform Oakensoul while spending minimal time on the back bar.

There are already better mythics for one bar builds on live

Orbital78 · May 3

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

They nerfed destruction weapon passives which nerfed a lot of the oakensoul builds. Oakensoul will still be okay for soloing but I'll take 1.5 or 2bars and that Rakkat shoulder mythic. Hopefully that makes heavy attacks more viable. Other weapons need some love besides lightning though.

Zyaneth_Bal · May 3

Orbital78 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

They nerfed destruction weapon passives which nerfed a lot of the oakensoul builds. Oakensoul will still be okay for soloing but I'll take 1.5 or 2bars and that Rakkat shoulder mythic. Hopefully that makes heavy attacks more viable. Other weapons need some love besides lightning though.

All weapon types are fine and see lots of use, other than fire destruction staff which is only used on bb in pve for it’s respective wall of elements effect but never on front bar for it’s weapon type bonus.

TheKaan · May 3

While the OP is 100% correct about the indirect nerfs to Oakensoul, it's probably not a coincidence. This Mythic has become such a hilariously divisive and toxic issue that the devs may regard the situation as unsalvageable.

Better to patch it into obscurity and drop the new Mythic Rakkhat's Voidmantle as a superior replacement; encouraging us to move on, quit bickering and try something different.

Just a thought.

Orbital78 · May 3

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

They nerfed destruction weapon passives which nerfed a lot of the oakensoul builds. Oakensoul will still be okay for soloing but I'll take 1.5 or 2bars and that Rakkat shoulder mythic. Hopefully that makes heavy attacks more viable. Other weapons need some love besides lightning though.

All weapon types are fine and see lots of use, other than fire destruction staff which is only used on bb in pve for it’s respective wall of elements effect but never on front bar for it’s weapon type bonus.

I meant for heavy attack build viability, I know all of the weapons are used with light attack builds or back bar. I have tried a few off meta heavy attack builds just for kicks, mostly bow and two hand.

Zyaneth_Bal · May 3

Orbital78 wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm confused about what the issue is.

Content did not become any harder so anything that an Oakensoul player was already clearing will still be able to be cleared. Oakensoul did not get nerfed. Nobody is losing anything except perhaps in their own minds trying to "Keep up with the Joneses" seeing the various triple-DPS subclassing parses. But the best advice is to steer clear of that rat race mentality. You are fine and you are doing fine. Ignore the YouTube hypebeasts.

They nerfed destruction weapon passives which nerfed a lot of the oakensoul builds. Oakensoul will still be okay for soloing but I'll take 1.5 or 2bars and that Rakkat shoulder mythic. Hopefully that makes heavy attacks more viable. Other weapons need some love besides lightning though.

All weapon types are fine and see lots of use, other than fire destruction staff which is only used on bb in pve for it’s respective wall of elements effect but never on front bar for it’s weapon type bonus.

I meant for heavy attack build viability, I know all of the weapons are used with light attack builds or back bar. I have tried a few off meta heavy attack builds just for kicks, mostly bow and two hand.

Ha isn’t a class, it’s isn’t a weapon or any other skill line. It’s simply a mechanic to restore resources alongside some other unique interactions. Builds are not divided into ha and la. There is a single build that uses lightning ha as a spammable to due to it’s unique nature, that some players have developed an obsession with, that is all. It is definitely not something devs should be bothered with from design perspective.

Solariken · May 3

Not a bad idea... Either way Oakensoul needs a huge buff.

Losing skill slots to save APM/globals on buffing is nice but it needs something additional to account for the loss of a monster set or a more useful mythic.

Thoriorz · May 5

Yes, I'm all for either allowing a back bar for "while slotted" buffs or giving to Oakensoul buffs Major Berserk and Courage.
But I don't think either will happen, unfortunately.

Khanmorte · May 6

Well since they have changed Pearls of Ehlnofey after 5 years, maybe we can have some changes to Oakensoul as well.

Having given it some thought, I have changed my mind from my earlier post. I suggest they add Major Courage and Major Slayer, instead of allowing backbar buffs to transfer. This will give the Mythic a small boost in PVP from Major Courage, a bigger buff in PVE (Major Courage + Major Slayer) and also give werewolves a buff since they have a source of Major Berserk already.

This should allow the abilities on the one-bar to have the same damage as a two bar build. Overall damage will be less since you still loose a backbar's worth of DOTs. Two bar heavy attack builds will still be stronger but one-bar heavy attack builds will still have a small buff so they are not as far behind. And Werewovles get some love in PVE at least so that they are also not left as far behind due the planned changes in the current PTS cycle. Here is hoping ZOS can slip this change in this PTS cycle for testing.

Renato90085 · May 6

Khanmorte wrote: »

Well since they have changed Pearls of Ehlnofey after 5 years, maybe we can have some changes to Oakensoul as well. Having given it some thought, I have changed my mind from my earlier post. I suggest they add Major Courage and Major Slayer, instead of allowing backbar buffs to transfer. This will give the Mythic a small boost in PVP from Major Courage, a bigger buff in PVE (Major Courage + Major Slayer) and also give werewolves a buff since they have a source of Major Berserk already.

This should allow the abilities on the one-bar to have the same damage as a two bar build. Overall damage will be less since you still loose a backbar's worth of DOTs. Two bar heavy attack builds will still be stronger but one-bar heavy attack builds will still have a small buff so they are not as far behind. And Werewovles get some love in PVE at least so that they are also not left as far behind due the planned changes in the current PTS cycle. Here is hoping ZOS can slip this change in this PTS cycle for testing.

This is 2nd time Poe nerf,because in PTS nPve endgame can use subclass easy got ult point and put 3ult in 45sec
Zos still never buff old mythic any time