Grave Lord Sacrifice

MurkyWetWolf198 · May 5

So, now that the synergy between this and the beams is dead, what’s the point of this skill?

StarOfElyon · May 5

And when can we find out who actually asked for Blighted Blastbones to be changed for GLS???

necro_the_crafter · May 5

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

So, now that the synergy between this and the beams is dead, what’s the point of this skill?

They will closely monitor it for future adjustments, we just have to wait until...

TempestM · May 5

Is it dead? Doesn't GLS buff class skills and therefore beams? At least I couldn't find mentions in PTS notes that it works only on necro skills

MurkyWetWolf198 · May 5

It does only buff Necro skills, the in-game tooltip has been changed

VoidCommander · May 5

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

necro_the_crafter · May 5

After corpse gen part had been moved to skulls baseline... whats even the point of having this... blighted once again will outdps GLS even in a full dot oriented setups, it's just bad, omg.

RandomKodiak · May 5

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

It does only buff Necro skills, the in-game tooltip has been changed

Necro Abilities and DoTs so Just killed the beam synergy. Not saying this skill is that good but it does still buff other class DoTs.

LukosCreyden · May 5

GLS was always bad. Always.
They need to delete this damn skill and either revert back to stalking blastbones, or make it do something better than "blastbones now TRIES to attack YOU!"

Yes, I have a MASSIVE hatred for GLS. I was gojng on and on for ages about adjusting one of the blastbones morphs to offer some diversity and they gave us THIS deeply cursed nonsense.

necro_the_crafter · May 5

LukosCreyden wrote: »

GLS was always bad. Always.
They need to delete this damn skill and either revert back to stalking blastbones, or make it do something better than "blastbones now TRIES to attack YOU!"

Yes, I have a MASSIVE hatred for GLS. I was gojng on and on for ages about adjusting one of the blastbones morphs to offer some diversity and they gave us THIS deeply cursed nonsense.

Absolutly agree here. Worst, the worst, uninspired, just a blunt %damage buff... Imagine if they did it with frags/spec bow/whip/backlash/flail/shalks. Its bad and needs to be deleted from the game.

Zyaneth_Bal · May 5

rip and dead sound in line with the necro fantasy

PeacefulAnarchy · May 5

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

I assume you're joking since Ritual is a big circle, but it's centered around your casting position, so not really a ranged dps skill. Eruption is tiny static aoe that's hard to target. Both are in healing lines with nothing else to offer a dps.
Also Eruption has a big upfront hit which means it maybe doesn't count as a dot? https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/dragonknight/earthen-heart/eruption This says buffed by Master-at-Arms rather than thaumateurge.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 5

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

Blastbones has a leap range of 28 meters. Not sure how thats "super melee" range.

necro_the_crafter · May 5

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

I assume you're joking since Ritual is a big circle, but it's centered around your casting position, so not really a ranged dps skill. Eruption is tiny static aoe that's hard to target. Both are in healing lines with nothing else to offer a dps.
Also Eruption has a big upfront hit which means it maybe doesn't count as a dot? https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/dragonknight/earthen-heart/eruption This says buffed by Master-at-Arms rather than thaumateurge.

Also, blighted outdpsing GLS even with dot oriented setups. arc beam and templar beam were the only ones that could make a difference, so GLS is worth slotting. It was trash, then it break the game, and now its trash again.

MurkyWetWolf198 · May 5

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

Blastbones has a leap range of 28 meters. Not sure how thats "super melee" range.

The leap takes time and affects how often it can be cast. At range, you are casting it every 4 seconds in an optimal rotation rather than 3

VoidCommander · May 5

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

Blastbones has a leap range of 28 meters. Not sure how thats "super melee" range.

Super melee range allows you to cast it once every 2 casts (where it is very valuable) versus only once ever 3 casts if the BB has to jump at all (significantly less damage).

VoidCommander · May 5

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

I assume you're joking since Ritual is a big circle, but it's centered around your casting position, so not really a ranged dps skill. Eruption is tiny static aoe that's hard to target. Both are in healing lines with nothing else to offer a dps.
Also Eruption has a big upfront hit which means it maybe doesn't count as a dot? https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/dragonknight/earthen-heart/eruption This says buffed by Master-at-Arms rather than thaumateurge.

Also, blighted outdpsing GLS even with dot oriented setups. arc beam and templar beam were the only ones that could make a difference, so GLS is worth slotting. It was trash, then it break the game, and now its trash again.

I wouldn’t say its trash just because it doesn’t deal as much damage as BB. It offers a significantly easier playset for Necros at the justified cost of some min-max damage. I was ecstatic at this change to be able to have a much more relaxed damage rotation for one of my favorite classes. I think balance wise, it landed in a decent spot, with my only criticism being that it would have been nice for it to consistently generate corpses without the need to use Flame Skull.

LukosCreyden · May 6

VoidCommander wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

I assume you're joking since Ritual is a big circle, but it's centered around your casting position, so not really a ranged dps skill. Eruption is tiny static aoe that's hard to target. Both are in healing lines with nothing else to offer a dps.
Also Eruption has a big upfront hit which means it maybe doesn't count as a dot? https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/dragonknight/earthen-heart/eruption This says buffed by Master-at-Arms rather than thaumateurge.

Also, blighted outdpsing GLS even with dot oriented setups. arc beam and templar beam were the only ones that could make a difference, so GLS is worth slotting. It was trash, then it break the game, and now its trash again.

I wouldn’t say its trash just because it doesn’t deal as much damage as BB. It offers a significantly easier playset for Necros at the justified cost of some min-max damage. I was ecstatic at this change to be able to have a much more relaxed damage rotation for one of my favorite classes. I think balance wise, it landed in a decent spot, with my only criticism being that it would have been nice for it to consistently generate corpses without the need to use Flame Skull.

Whilst this IS a fair statement, it is pretty severely let down by the animation. Not only does it look dumb to summon an exploding skeleton that jumps at its own caster and explodes, it still has the same weakness of the other morph! It can get stuck, it can be cc'ed, it can be killed.

Give it a cooler animation; either a simple self buff, or a wisp or wraith or something that follows you around and buffs you. The exploding skeleton is dumb.

necro_the_crafter · May 6

VoidCommander wrote: »

I wouldn’t say its trash just because it doesn’t deal as much damage as BB. It offers a significantly easier playset for Necros at the justified cost of some min-max damage. I was ecstatic at this change to be able to have a much more relaxed damage rotation for one of my favorite classes. I think balance wise, it landed in a decent spot, with my only criticism being that it would have been nice for it to consistently generate corpses without the need to use Flame Skull.

Look, i have to spend like 6 secons to come up with this idea:

1 - you summon the skeleton at targeted loacation, wich fully assembles after 0.5 second delay
2 - Skeleton scroches the area, dealing X DoT damage and increase AoE radius by 2m each 0.5 seconds for 1.5 seconds
3 - Skeleton explodes dealing X direct AoE damage
4 - Skeleton leaves burning bone shards in the Area to deal DoT damage every 1 second for 6 seconds

Som you will have to recast it once every 8 seconds (0.5 sec assemble/1.5 sec of scroching/Explosion/6 sec of AoE ground DoT), and its a decent AoE with direct and DoT portion, simillar to burning talons, but deals overall more damage due to having no other function (talons have roots). If skeleton is killed/interrupted before it completes his scorching part he immidiatly explodes.

And by the end of a day I might end up with six quadrillion more variants that are better than GLS. Its bad and needs rework.

Vaqual · May 6

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

rip and dead sound in line with the necro fantasy

Yep it is Grave Lords Sacrifice and not Grave Lords Gain after all, hehe.

IncultaWolf · May 6

*Grave Lord's Suckrifice

Rework this trash again. How can you sacrifice something already dead, and the skeleton jumping and exploding on YOU looks really bad. If it at least had a unique animation, I wouldn't be as annoyed.

karios525 · May 6

What is the revised tooltip for GLS?

sans-culottes · May 6

It’s funny that they can revise this but not the summon’s label. Bafflingly, after well over a year this still reads “Stalking Blastbones.”

randconfig · May 6

RandomKodiak wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

It does only buff Necro skills, the in-game tooltip has been changed

Necro Abilities and DoTs so Just killed the beam synergy. Not saying this skill is that good but it does still buff other class DoTs.

"beam synergy" was literally busted, of course they were going to nerf that.

GLS is not a bad skill even with the changes.

Joy_Division · May 6

I always found this ability incredibly boring and unsatisfying to use, as all it does it provide a temporary boost to one type of damage (while not even having a interesting animation; it's just recycling a completely different skill). So the less meta this becomes the more I would be inclined to actually play a Necro.

necro_the_crafter · May 6

randconfig wrote: »

"beam synergy" was literally busted, of course they were going to nerf that.

GLS is not a bad skill even with the changes.

nuh its still bad. It was bad, and its still bad. "beam synergy" was a side effect, and was never indented or meant to be, and thankfully got fixed.

Design-wise its the worse ZoS had ever done. Taking a powerful class burst ability that was a huge part of necros identity, and make it into effectivly a passive that's also can be cc'ed or killed. Imagine if ZoS had taken sorcerers frags, and made that into crystal weapon, whilst other morph would be the one that had no proc condition and casting time. Its exactly that. Its exactly how bad it is. There is a miriad of ways to make blastbones easier on rotation, without effectivly deleting a skill, the amount of possible solutions is limited only by ones creativity and imaginagion. And judging by the current state of GLS, there was no creativity involved. They chose simpliest and easiest solution to implement without any consideration for necros gameplay, power fantasy, and playerbase desires. And the fact they keep ignoring feedback from players and still presist with this ability patch after patch is insulting.

Lystrad · May 6

My problem with gravelord's sacrifice has always been that the concept of the skill never really gelled with me. Everything about it in it's current design just feels off... Like conceptually the idea of a necromancer sacrificing something for more power? That makes perfect sense but mechanically GLS sacrifices nothing and it's animation just feels out of place for what it's supposed to be.

The current version of the skill feels like I'm casting a buff on myself indirectly by summoning a skeleton to give me a hug. It doesn't have a health cost, it doesn't have a corpse cost, and it's functionality is the default version of the skill so it's not even an opportunity cost. Where's the sacrifice aspect?

I don't hate the idea of the skill, I just feel like it would make more sense if the buff and name were attached to a corpse consumer like siphon. I could even see an argument to attach it to one of the graveyard morphs instead blastbones.

"Gravelord's ritual. Cost x health

Fill an area with necrotic energies, dealing x damage over y seconds and gain the GLS buff. If a corpse is present it will be consumed to extend the duration of both the AoE and the buff, and no health will be consumed."

francesinhalover · May 6

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

It is useful if you want a ranged necro dps, as BB’s greatest damage can only be done from “super melee” range. It is also way more forgiving in terms of aligning dots and priorities. With subclassing, tacking on a few more good dots like ritual of retribution and Eruption can go a long way.

Blastbones has a leap range of 28 meters. Not sure how thats "super melee" range.

The leap takes time and affects how often it can be cast. At range, you are casting it every 4 seconds in an optimal rotation rather than 3

This rather confuses me, i was casting blastbones every 2 skills untill i went for the other morph because i couldnt deal with blastbones anymore.
yet i see people saying every 3 skills and you 4.

francesinhalover · May 6

Now i'm probably one of the few people that loves this skill.
but i do find it rather underpowered and would love if it got some extra stats to it.
That being said. They should had chose the other blastbones morph not this one. Because that fire dmg loss hurted it a bit.

You summon a powerfull skeleton that you sacrifice to gain more power.

Skull spammable becomes explodes in area now... or just give this to the skull spammable. it's a bad skill regardless it's fine to make it aoe.
Increases all class(any class) skills dmg by 2% per class so max 24% dmg
reduces cost of class skills by 1% per skill max 12%
Gain minor heroism or major heroism.

necro_the_crafter · May 6

Lystrad wrote: »

My problem with gravelord's sacrifice has always been that the concept of the skill never really gelled with me. Everything about it in it's current design just feels off... Like conceptually the idea of a necromancer sacrificing something for more power? That makes perfect sense but mechanically GLS sacrifices nothing and it's animation just feels out of place for what it's supposed to be.

The current version of the skill feels like I'm casting a buff on myself indirectly by summoning a skeleton to give me a hug. It doesn't have a health cost, it doesn't have a corpse cost, and it's functionality is the default version of the skill so it's not even an opportunity cost. Where's the sacrifice aspect?

I don't hate the idea of the skill, I just feel like it would make more sense if the buff and name were attached to a corpse consumer like siphon. I could even see an argument to attach it to one of the graveyard morphs instead blastbones.

"Gravelord's ritual. Cost x health

Fill an area with necrotic energies, dealing x damage over y seconds and gain the GLS buff. If a corpse is present it will be consumed to extend the duration of both the AoE and the buff, and no health will be consumed."

since templars and sorcs also have self synergie now, that is on their base skills (LL and shards), maybe its time to cro to have self graverobber on base graveyard as well? avid could then become a power zone that apllies GLS buff to necromancer while he stands in its radius. And GLS remade into an actual active burst skill other than a generic passive with flashy animation.

YandereGirlfriend · May 7

Another low-effort option would be to simply clone the Templar Solar Barrage logic and swap the art and damage type to either Disease or Frost, nerf the buff percentage a little, and call it a day. Name it like Dust to Dust or Chill of the Grave or something. In other words, let's have the skill actually DO something on its own that is interesting. And Necros need more native DOTs.