Hey as long as Vampire loses their damage increase I'm fine with Fighters Guild losing theirs, too. However unless Vampire is nerfed do not touch Fighters Guild. Thanks!

you have a good point. Fighters guild is stronger than mages guild and medium armor is stronger than light armor.

There should be a buff for mages guild and for light armor.

No need to nerf anything.

Nerfs just because!!! Personally, my favorite class is templar so I'd prefer they focus on nerfing all other classes to allow me to play the way I want to play.

I think it's a good idea to change slayer passive into max Stamina and Stamina regeneration per ability slotted. It would mirror the Mages Guild passive.

All guild lines need an overhaul with stronger thematic orientation.

allochthons wrote: »

Buff, not nerf.
It's always better to give players more options, rather than take them away.

Buffing would increase the need to slot FG abilities. The opportunity cost to not use them is already too high.
Buff them even further and everyone will use silver shards as spammable, because everything else is a dps loss.

Choice is an illusion in this game.

Cooperharley wrote: »

How about we just make mages guild more exciting versus making both dull?

Dont know why people always prefer to nerf things over buffing other things to make them more fun and usable

Buffs are bad for the health of the game. You can't just get free power when content doesn't get adjusted.

AlterBlika wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

How about we just make mages guild more exciting versus making both dull?

Dont know why people always prefer to nerf things over buffing other things to make them more fun and usable

Buffs are bad for the health of the game. You can't just get free power when content doesn't get adjusted.

You're right - with that logic let's just nerf everything into the ground.

End-game content is adjusted every year to be harder and harder (look at every trial since DSR). Theyre also adding optional overland difficulty sliders in the future (or an iteration of that). ZOS has been known to sledgehammer nerf the crap out of things and gut classes and sets. This doesn't feel good. Why would you want to nerf things continuously versus bringing more things into the light?

Buffs are great for the game in moderation and when done correctly.

L take IMO

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

Buff, not nerf.
It's always better to give players more options, rather than take them away.

Buffing would increase the need to slot FG abilities.

Don't buff FG, buff other things so FG isn't required. Buff Mages, or other options, to make them on par with FG.

I agree to some extent.. Barbed Trap and Dawnbreaker have been on most of my PVE builds for the better part of 10 years, that 1 mythic alleviated that issue for my alts, but it's not optimal, just satisfying to be free from Barbed Trap. That said, I'd prefer a rebalance. Something like 3% stam and 3% stam recovery, then buff mages guild to the same amount, could also just go to 2% w/s DMG and it would be fairly balanced imo. I'd then make minor force more common by adding it to some underused abilities in different categories. Eg. How they added it to Dark Deal, doesn't work for PVE, but it was a pretty solid niche addition for PVP.

Add minor force to Mages Guild Fire Rune (community has been asking for this since like 2015 and they instead came up with paywalled Channeled Acceleration everyone hated). Add it to like 2 more class skills, something like Templar's Vampire Bane and Warden's Fletcher Infection, both skills kinda underwhelming and last 20+s. Maybe take the Dark Deal approach and add it to a utility skills somewhere for PVP purposes. I'd maybe go even further and add it to 2 underused weapon skills, something like Destruction Staff's Reach and Bow's Poison Arrow morphs.

Options.. who knew. I get that people would say oh but the meta would just shift to something else. The point is, the gap between what's optimal and what isn't should be as minimal as possible, while still being rewarding. The 3% w/s DMG imo is very close which is why I see it as less of an issue, a minor tweak would be enough, but the minor force + Barbed Trap gap is pretty massive, even if you didn't need minor force, the skill still outperforms most 20s dots because it has about 8% more damage built in vs Lightweight Trap (equal to most 20s dots), then another +10% DMG passive, and high Hemorrhaging chance (one of the strongest and rarest status effects).

It's in this unique position as bleed damage because of the 3 high DPS status effects that you want close to 100% uptime on, burning and poisoned are covered via enchants, getting at least 1 source of Hemorrhaging in this case provides a great deal of value because there is no other viable source for it. It also happens to be a strong skill with a necessary buff, a 1 stop shop for 3 different categories.. which is why indirectly, to solve this problem, a Bleed enchant option is also necessary.

Frankly none of this will happen given how well they rebalanced the classes for a subclassing future of ESO. We're gonna be slotting DB and Barbed Trap for the next 9 years and people will act like that's okay.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I agree to some extent.. Barbed Trap and Dawnbreaker have been on most of my PVE builds for the better part of 10 years, that 1 mythic alleviated that issue for my alts, but it's not optimal, just satisfying to be free from Barbed Trap. That said, I'd prefer a rebalance. Something like 3% stam and 3% stam recovery, then buff mages guild to the same amount, could also just go to 2% w/s DMG and it would be fairly balanced imo. I'd then make minor force more common by adding it to some underused abilities in different categories. Eg. How they added it to Dark Deal, doesn't work for PVE, but it was a pretty solid niche addition for PVP.

Add minor force to Mages Guild Fire Rune (community has been asking for this since like 2015 and they instead came up with paywalled Channeled Acceleration everyone hated). Add it to like 2 more class skills, something like Templar's Vampire Bane and Warden's Fletcher Infection, both skills kinda underwhelming and last 20+s. Maybe take the Dark Deal approach and add it to a utility skills somewhere for PVP purposes. I'd maybe go even further and add it to 2 underused weapon skills, something like Destruction Staff's Reach and Bow's Poison Arrow morphs.

Options.. who knew. I get that people would say oh but the meta would just shift to something else. The point is, the gap between what's optimal and what isn't should be as minimal as possible, while still being rewarding. The 3% w/s DMG imo is very close which is why I see it as less of an issue, a minor tweak would be enough, but the minor force + Barbed Trap gap is pretty massive, even if you didn't need minor force, the skill still outperforms most 20s dots because it has about 8% more damage built in vs Lightweight Trap (equal to most 20s dots), then another +10% DMG passive, and high Hemorrhaging chance (one of the strongest and rarest status effects).

It's in this unique position as bleed damage because of the 3 high DPS status effects that you want close to 100% uptime on, burning and poisoned are covered via enchants, getting at least 1 source of Hemorrhaging in this case provides a great deal of value because there is no other viable source for it. It also happens to be a strong skill with a necessary buff, a 1 stop shop for 3 different categories.. which is why indirectly, to solve this problem, a Bleed enchant option is also necessary.

Frankly none of this will happen given how well they rebalanced the classes for a subclassing future of ESO. We're gonna be slotting DB and Barbed Trap for the next 9 years and people will act like that's okay.

I think that lines like mages and fighter guilds sholdn't had been hybridised. Mages guild has to be about spell damage and mana, while fighters - about weapon damage and stamina. Its a big part of their fanatsy.

Maggusemm wrote: »

I agree with you. As I remember the mages guild does not give spell damage but only mag magicka. In the past, max magicka was more valuable than it is now and somehow comparable to spell damage. Now, max magicka is not really giving so many bonuses to damage compared to previous patches.

In addition, fighters guild gives also bonus to ultimate generation. Mages guild does not.

Thats why mages guild is by far weaker than fighters guild, is this correct?

Initialy fighters guild was all about undead/daedra/vimpire hunting, its was a nice role-play element that played into rpg of mmo. Too sad that over time it devolved into just another skill line you level for passives.

Mages guild is only good for a mag sorc to stack max mana for shield size, and maybe for plar to make notorious meteor-jav combo, and for everybody else, its just another set of mediocre passives.

It would be nice if ZoS once again made those lines a fun role-playing element, with mages guild buffing magical types of damage and fighters - physycal, especialy now, when they adding "fun" into the game with subclassing, could made those "fun" as well.

Don't worry now you are losing damage by not slotting Incap instead of Dawnbreaker and Siphon instead of Camo Hunter. You have got your wish.