Unbalanced BGs or Make BGs Great Again

MightyBelarus · May 1

I play this game on the Xbox EU server and I've only played on BGs for the last 3 years.

Can someone please explain to me why you have replaced the good old 4vs4vs4 with an unbalanced 4v4?

The first problem is that in 4vs4 you either win 500 to 0 or lose 0 to 500. And there will always be 1-2 partners out of 4!! who stand on the respawn for a minute and you don't even ban them!
More or less the way out of the situation is 8v8, but the second problem is online, doesn't anybody control the situation on Xbox EU? So we just have people who don't play 8vs8 and you stand in queue for 40-50 minutes in the evening and nothing happens!
So 8v8 is dead on our platform. Even BG's weekend mini-events don't help. So it's been six months since it's been possible to play modes like Artifact Capture or Chaos Ball.

So I ask again, why is it that after several years of playing this game and buying a DLS every time, I can't continue to play it and get satisfaction from such strange innovations?

It's very sad to see that PVE will remain PVE and there are tons of entertainment for PVE players, but for PVP players we have Cyrodiil, which I do not know how many years without changes and BG, which you have made unbalanced.

MightyBelarus · May 1

Want a competitive and massive BGs? Leave only 4vs4vs4 and 8vs8, it's obvious that it's better than 4vs4 and will help platforms where small online.

Moonspawn · May 1

I'd like to apologize on behalf of Zenimax for the inexistence of balanced battleground matches. Hopefully it will happen someday. Be sure to leave your support, so the growth of the BG community can finally begin.

AngryNecro · May 1

Are you serious? This is the first time I've seen that someone doesn't like the new BG. I think they're great. Much better than the old ones.

MightyBelarus · May 1

Here is the proof that there is no online on 8vs8 on Xbox EU.

The first screen was made on the last PVP weekend. 26 minutes in the queue...

The second screen shows what we have every day. 42 minutes in the queue... and nothing happened in the end.

When we had 4vs4vs4 we didn't have any problem with the queue.

AngryNecro · May 1

but seriously lol. because of the consoles, would change the mode on all servers. Consoles are initially a compromise, why be surprised that some mode doesn't work very well there. Personally, I am in favor of cross-play PC servers and consoles for BG. This will solve the problem you are writing about xD

MightyBelarus · May 1

In the game as New World there are different conditions for each world, and it looks like a solution, plus even if you dig here on the forum you can find topics that 4vs4 is unbalanced, and in this form it can not be left.

and if you look through forum carefully, you will see that the problem is not only on our platform, I am glad that everything is fine on PC EU, let it stay, but I also want a comfortable game like it was earlier

MightyBelarus · May 1

at least give us a cross-play with PS...

AngryNecro · May 1

MightyBelarus wrote: »

In the game as New World there are different conditions for each world, and it looks like a solution, plus even if you dig here on the forum you can find topics that 4vs4 is unbalanced, and in this form it can not be left.

cose most % don't know how to play or just don't understand what's going on around them. What should developers do about it?
cors with out crossplay on console line be wary long. i think you waiting vet dange too if screach it.

Thumbless_Bot · May 1

AngryNecro wrote: »

Are you serious? This is the first time I've seen that someone doesn't like the new BG.

This... is not true.

RealLoveBVB · May 1

AngryNecro wrote: »

cose most % don't know how to play or just don't understand what's going on around them. What should developers do about it?

Introducing subclasses

Weesacs · May 1

There are quite a few problems i see with BGs at the moment and you actually touch on one of them regarding players spawn camping. However thats not really the players fault. There should be a 10 second timer then you are auto teleported onto the battle field ... as this doesnt happen then of course players are going to abuse the system. Fix this by taking that away. Players dont need to sit in respawn longer than 10 seconds.

Here are a few other problems that i see:

- MMR doesnt exist. If it does exist its either broken or implemented poorly. This should be fixed.

- Balancing of healers. One team having no healers and one team having 2 or more. This shouldnt happen.

- Domination should always have 3 flags. Having two, especially when the teams are imbalanced (which is the majority of the time) just makes it more imbalanced. At least with three flags the weaker team has a better chance of capturing them. For example, a couple of very good players can hold a flag, and if they are winning then they just need to hold the one flag until the timer runs out. Waste of time for the weaker team. Also, a good tank or healer can hold a flag on their own, again imbalances the game if the teams arent balanced and there are only two flags.

- Reduce the points awarded to healing. Healers are dominating the leader boards solely due to the points awarded to healing. Damage is just as important or in some cases more important. There are even games where players on the losing team are getting more points than the winning team solely based on thier healing in TDM. Healing shouldnt get more points than damage or kills.

- Capture the relic. The points allocated should be better. Most of these games end with literally no points awarded which is silly, as there is good work being done defending or attempting to pick up the relic on attack. Yes their should be more points allocated in actually capturing the relic but playing 3 games and only getting 50 points is silly.

- Auto teleport players onto the battlefield after 10 secs. As i stated above, have a 10 second auto teleport onto the battlefield after respawning to stop players time wasting.

- Remove attacking to and from the spawn points. No need for this. Is silly and unfair.

- Start each game with either no ultimates or full ultimates. This balances the game more as currently, players begin the game with different ultimate levels, which can inbalance the game, especially right at the start on Crazy King.

- Remove the werewolf and vampire from Chaosball as many players just wont pick them up for different reasons, i see it all the time. I personally would also always pick up the normal ball over the other two balls.

Thats just my view of a few problems that i currently encounter on a daily basis within BGs.

ArchMikem · May 1

We're they ever great? I've had more fun in Cyrodiil, and even that's stretching it.

Desiato · May 1

Weesacs wrote: »

- Remove the werewolf and vampire from Chaosball as many players just wont pick them up for different reasons, i see it all the time. I personally would also always pick up the normal ball over the other two balls.

This is so frustrating to me because I would think most players want to actually play the build they assembled.

Great post overall, I agree with most of your points.

xR3ACTORx · May 2

It's been said before the BG Rework. Since Xbox EU player population declined a bit the rework had the potential to kill BGs entirely on Xbox EU.

And that's basically what happened. BGs should never have been reworked.

Same about reworking cyro to increase population cap. Xbox EU barely reaches population cap so no need to change this.

Decimus · May 2

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

It's been said before the BG Rework. Since Xbox EU player population declined a bit the rework had the potential to kill BGs entirely on Xbox EU.

And that's basically what happened. BGs should never have been reworked.

Same about reworking cyro to increase population cap. Xbox EU barely reaches population cap so no need to change this.

That's interesting, because the complete opposite happened on PC/EU... There was one lobby, same players every time before the rework and there still is multiple simultaneous lobbies now (both 4v4 and 8v8) where I still come across new names frequently, months after BG rework.

This sounds like more of an issue with Xbox EU population in general, especially given what you wrote about Cyrodiil - keeping the same format wouldn't magically stop the population from declining, and it seems to me like whatever remains has decided to concentrate in Cyrodiil mostly.

It's a shame, hopefully console addons (coming next update) is the first step towards cross-platform, that'd solve the issues.

That's not to say current BGs are perfect, they badly need adjustments and improvements... But the format change definitely made them more fun for me, and most people I talk to on PC EU.

MightyBelarus · May 2

Weesacs wrote: »

There are quite a few problems i see with BGs at the moment and you actually touch on one of them regarding players spawn camping. However thats not really the players fault. There should be a 10 second timer then you are auto teleported onto the battle field ... as this doesnt happen then of course players are going to abuse the system. Fix this by taking that away. Players dont need to sit in respawn longer than 10 seconds.

Here are a few other problems that i see:

- MMR doesnt exist. If it does exist its either broken or implemented poorly. This should be fixed.

- Balancing of healers. One team having no healers and one team having 2 or more. This shouldnt happen.

- Domination should always have 3 flags. Having two, especially when the teams are imbalanced (which is the majority of the time) just makes it more imbalanced. At least with three flags the weaker team has a better chance of capturing them. For example, a couple of very good players can hold a flag, and if they are winning then they just need to hold the one flag until the timer runs out. Waste of time for the weaker team. Also, a good tank or healer can hold a flag on their own, again imbalances the game if the teams arent balanced and there are only two flags.

- Reduce the points awarded to healing. Healers are dominating the leader boards solely due to the points awarded to healing. Damage is just as important or in some cases more important. There are even games where players on the losing team are getting more points than the winning team solely based on thier healing in TDM. Healing shouldnt get more points than damage or kills.

- Capture the relic. The points allocated should be better. Most of these games end with literally no points awarded which is silly, as there is good work being done defending or attempting to pick up the relic on attack. Yes their should be more points allocated in actually capturing the relic but playing 3 games and only getting 50 points is silly.

- Auto teleport players onto the battlefield after 10 secs. As i stated above, have a 10 second auto teleport onto the battlefield after respawning to stop players time wasting.

- Remove attacking to and from the spawn points. No need for this. Is silly and unfair.

- Start each game with either no ultimates or full ultimates. This balances the game more as currently, players begin the game with different ultimate levels, which can inbalance the game, especially right at the start on Crazy King.

- Remove the werewolf and vampire from Chaosball as many players just wont pick them up for different reasons, i see it all the time. I personally would also always pick up the normal ball over the other two balls.

Thats just my view of a few problems that i currently encounter on a daily basis within BGs.

I totally agree with every word. It's minimal changes that should be applied ASAP, but it seems like PVP for ZOS is not a priority. Just take a look at the new golden pursuits. There is only one PVP task, a very sad picture.

Necrotech_Master · May 2

i genuinely did not enjoy the 4v4v4 BGs, it consistently felt like 2 teams would just be off fighting and the 3rd team would play objectives, or 2 teams would gang up on 1 team until that team almost rage quit

BGs ive felt have always had poor matchmaking, there is always times where it puts in 1 team that absolutely is out of league for the rest and will dominate the match

for the current BGs, i dont mind the 8v8 (though still occasionally have curbstomp matches due to poor matchmaking), i dont enjoy the 4v4 BGs much (i especially hate the limited lives deathmatch unique to 4v4 BGs)

MightyBelarus · May 4

yeah

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i genuinely did not enjoy the 4v4v4 BGs, it consistently felt like 2 teams would just be off fighting and the 3rd team would play objectives, or 2 teams would gang up on 1 team until that team almost rage quit

BGs ive felt have always had poor matchmaking, there is always times where it puts in 1 team that absolutely is out of league for the rest and will dominate the match

for the current BGs, i dont mind the 8v8 (though still occasionally have curbstomp matches due to poor matchmaking), i dont enjoy the 4v4 BGs much (i especially hate the limited lives deathmatch unique to 4v4 BGs)

I think people who enjoy 4vs4 should have arena mode like 3vs3,4vs4 smth like these and BG should be only 8vs8 and we players should have MMR, cos without MMR it's a terrible situation that we have at this moment

Kelenan7368 · May 4

With subclassing no one will ever be able to say unbalanced again.
Only your skill and builds will mean anything in PVP

MightyBelarus · May 4

Kelenan7368 wrote: »

With subclassing no one will ever be able to say unbalanced again.
Only your skill and builds will mean anything in PVP

Personally, I want to see that a personal skill and balanced condition of BG solves more than build and the skills on the panel, which sometimes has a greater advantage in this game and constantly change from patch to patch.

Necrotech_Master · May 5

MightyBelarus wrote: »

yeah

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i genuinely did not enjoy the 4v4v4 BGs, it consistently felt like 2 teams would just be off fighting and the 3rd team would play objectives, or 2 teams would gang up on 1 team until that team almost rage quit

BGs ive felt have always had poor matchmaking, there is always times where it puts in 1 team that absolutely is out of league for the rest and will dominate the match

for the current BGs, i dont mind the 8v8 (though still occasionally have curbstomp matches due to poor matchmaking), i dont enjoy the 4v4 BGs much (i especially hate the limited lives deathmatch unique to 4v4 BGs)

I think people who enjoy 4vs4 should have arena mode like 3vs3,4vs4 smth like these and BG should be only 8vs8 and we players should have MMR, cos without MMR it's a terrible situation that we have at this moment

from many posts that the devs have stated there is an MMR, the problem is theres barely enough players in the queues to support going into matches, so the system just matches any players in the queue together which makes it feel like theres no MMR

when i was doing like 5-6 8v8 matches a day to get the to the victor quest done for the style pages and furnishings, usually on avg 30-50% of the players in each match were the same people (ive even seen a few matches were as many as 80% of the people were the same between 2 matches, it just shuffled the teams around)

Cooperharley · May 5

It's unbalanced because we have an MMR system that requires significant numbers of people to be playing to be as accurate as possible. Given that ESO PvP is not the most popular aspect of the game by a long shot, it's hardly surprising. I think the new structure is fine - every PvP game pretty much ever is 1 side versus another versus the 4v4v4 we used to have, it's just the way ZOS implemented it that's poor.

Poor implementation + small number of people playing (badly optimized MMR) = bad experience

Orbital78 · May 5

The MMR does seem out of whack, but I only queue for BG's when there are bonus weekends or some sort of incentive to do so. I don't take PVP very seriously, so when I go in and get matched up against youtube pvp content creators and there are bombers killing half+ of you team in a second... I tend to nope out and find something more fun to do with my game time. I don't have the balancing answers, nor do I care about BG's like I do Dungeons and Trials. I have seen Stream Team members get frustrated about the poor matching and potential "rigging" of matches with friends. I hope they can get things into a "FUN" state though, or casuals will just nope out and the few bg players will be suck in the finding players loop.