I can't remember the last time anyone assigned a role in a Dungeon or Trial to be honest with you...just take my runs yesterday we ran VetTrials with two fake tanks one fake healer and a DPS....No one cared.

It's been the way things are for awhile now...I would be shocked if anyone these days demanded a old School Trinity...

As a 3k+ CP main (selfish) tank, I want to actually be the one rezzing as well. So I agree with you OP.

As I am a selfish tank, I practically do 0 dps. If I have the aggro, this gives me 15 seconds to rez a player, without lowering the group's dps. As when another dps rezzes, this actually lowers the overall dps. Therefor I always try to be the one rezzing first and asap. It's a matter of higher overall dps to me.

But no, there aren't any defined which role has to rez rules. And there shouldn't be any, as sometimes it is easier for the dps or healer to rez. Be it distance from death person, multiple bosses aggro'd, or the tank being busy with something.

PS: This(rezzing) to me is actually one of those things that shows a good tank vs an average or bad tank. Tanking is sooo much more than only holding aggro.
PPS: Gave you an awesome!

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I can't remember the last time anyone assigned a role in a Dungeon or Trial to be honest with you...just take my runs yesterday we ran VetTrials with two fake tanks one fake healer and a DPS....No one cared.

It's been the way things are for awhile now...I would be shocked if anyone these days demanded a old School Trinity...

The trinity is necessary in an MMORPG. Each role nonverbally communicates to other players what they will be doing in the dungeon/trial/raid etc.

This is how we know who will heal, who will DPS and who will tank.

Guild Wars 2 when it first came out did not have the trinity. This made running dungeons a royal pain in the bottom and not even remotely fun. Everyone ends up running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to dodge boss attacks.

If you do not want the "trinity" then you must also make the claim that you do not want 1 shot mechanics which would homogenize the game further than it already is.

The grip on end game in ESO has loosened you're just flat out wrong about it being integral in GW2 OR ESO ...even in WoW we can see the Trinity slowly dying

As for ESO...

When you can complete Vet Sunspire or RG with just Fake tanks and Healers? (Like NEFASQS complained about before he left ESO)

Yeah the Trinity is dead...

I have and will always play as the role I'm in when I dungeon, I just have different levels of healing support builds so my healer can heal as much or as little as the group needs. If I can rez and the group are clearly not needing my heals for a few seconds, I'll rez. I have no issue with a tank doing the same.

It does make sense if the group are managing and you're able to quickly switch back to your role if things start going pear-shaped mid-rez. As a healer I tend to over-heal everyone and put down my HOTs to give them some cover before I try to rez. But practice does help you know what the group are able to manage and when it's not safe. It's one of those things that makes me enjoy healing now, where I was an over-healing paranoid medic to start with!

It kind of depends on the experience of the tank and if they are an OFF tank. Ideally people would just stop dying so often.

In hard mode progs and such it is going to happen, our off tank often reses after getting a t-bag off.

You’re a TEMPLAR tank. Templars have a passive that make them res abnormally fast which is why you’re having no problems. I res on my templar tank too because it’s just that fast. On other classes however, making the tank res makes tanking a whole lot harder because you have to time mechanics and boss attacks perfectly to get the res off with how much longer it takes.

Edit: I think the same applies to healers too. If possible templar > dps > healer > tank. They’re the exception. Even a good non-templar tank can’t guarantee they can res efficiently as the res may have to be cancelled to block or move.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I can't remember the last time anyone assigned a role in a Dungeon or Trial to be honest with you...just take my runs yesterday we ran VetTrials with two fake tanks one fake healer and a DPS....No one cared.

It's been the way things are for awhile now...I would be shocked if anyone these days demanded a old School Trinity...

The trinity is necessary in an MMORPG. Each role nonverbally communicates to other players what they will be doing in the dungeon/trial/raid etc.

This is how we know who will heal, who will DPS and who will tank.

Guild Wars 2 when it first came out did not have the trinity. This made running dungeons a royal pain in the bottom and not even remotely fun. Everyone ends up running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to dodge boss attacks.

If you do not want the "trinity" then you must also make the claim that you do not want 1 shot mechanics which would homogenize the game further than it already is.

The grip on end game in ESO has loosened you're just flat out wrong about it being integral in GW2 OR ESO ...even in WoW we can see the Trinity slowly dying

As for ESO...

When you can complete Vet Sunspire or RG with just Fake tanks and Healers? (Like NEFASQS complained about before he left ESO)

Yeah the Trinity is dead...

Incorrect. There are mechanics in ESO that will one shot any non tank build even to this day. Being able to cheeese content is not the same as not needing a tank.

When pugs can run every vet dungeon and trial in game with no experience and down the content THEN the idea that the trinity is dead will be legitmate.

But regardless. Everything I stated is true. The trinity exists for reasons I already laid out and this hold true today even in wow, especially in wow.

/sigh....

Big Hits? No Tank Needed: You said vet dungeons and trials got attacks that’ll flatten non-tanks. Sure, some moves hit like a truck, but you can dodge, pop a shield, or heal yourself to stay upright. If your crew’s got solid DPS, you can melt bosses before those hits even come. Seen groups smash Sunspire or Cloudrest with just DPS and some survival tricks. Tanks are cool, but you don’t need ‘em, ‘specially in 4-man stuff.

PUGs Don’t Care About Trinity: You’re saying PUGs can’t handle vet content without tanks. Nah, that’s off. most vet dungeons are cake for random groups, even without a tank, as long as people aren’t half-asleep. Even in vet trials, regular players hop into PUGs all the time, and no one’s whining about “where’s the trinity?”—you can mix and match roles. Saying newbies gotta clear everything is a stretch.

Trinity’s More Like a Vibe: You’re all about the trinity being key, even in WoW. But ESO’s chill—Nightblades or Templars can DPS, heal, and take hits with the right setup. WoW’s newer stuff’s got classes doing the same. Trinity’s still a thing, but it’s not like you’re locked into it.

Cheesing’s Just Smart: You dissed “cheesing,” but that’s just playing the game! Kiting bosses, stacking for heals, or ducking behind walls—that’s how ESO rolls. In Banished Cells, you can blast through or lock down enemies, no tank needed. Ain’t cheating, it’s just clever.

Look, ESO lets you breeze through most vet dungeons and trials without a tank if your group’s got half a brain. People run PUGs every day, even vet trials, and nobody’s crying for a perfect trinity. WoW’s chilling out on strict roles too. You’re making the trinity sound way more important than it is.

I just cleared Dread and Stonegarden with a wonky group of fake tanks & Healers...if you CAN do this why go back?


Anyway were no going to agree on this....you keep playing stiff and I'll keep having fun k?

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I can't remember the last time anyone assigned a role in a Dungeon or Trial to be honest with you...just take my runs yesterday we ran VetTrials with two fake tanks one fake healer and a DPS....No one cared.

It's been the way things are for awhile now...I would be shocked if anyone these days demanded a old School Trinity...

The trinity is necessary in an MMORPG. Each role nonverbally communicates to other players what they will be doing in the dungeon/trial/raid etc.

This is how we know who will heal, who will DPS and who will tank.

Guild Wars 2 when it first came out did not have the trinity. This made running dungeons a royal pain in the bottom and not even remotely fun. Everyone ends up running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to dodge boss attacks.

If you do not want the "trinity" then you must also make the claim that you do not want 1 shot mechanics which would homogenize the game further than it already is.

The grip on end game in ESO has loosened you're just flat out wrong about it being integral in GW2 OR ESO ...even in WoW we can see the Trinity slowly dying

As for ESO...

When you can complete Vet Sunspire or RG with just Fake tanks and Healers? (Like NEFASQS complained about before he left ESO)

Yeah the Trinity is dead...

Incorrect. There are mechanics in ESO that will one shot any non tank build even to this day. Being able to cheeese content is not the same as not needing a tank.

When pugs can run every vet dungeon and trial in game with no experience and down the content THEN the idea that the trinity is dead will be legitmate.

But regardless. Everything I stated is true. The trinity exists for reasons I already laid out and this hold true today even in wow, especially in wow.

/sigh....

Big Hits? No Tank Needed: You said vet dungeons and trials got attacks that’ll flatten non-tanks. Sure, some moves hit like a truck, but you can dodge, pop a shield, or heal yourself to stay upright. If your crew’s got solid DPS, you can melt bosses before those hits even come. Seen groups smash Sunspire or Cloudrest with just DPS and some survival tricks. Tanks are cool, but you don’t need ‘em, ‘specially in 4-man stuff.

PUGs Don’t Care About Trinity: You’re saying PUGs can’t handle vet content without tanks. Nah, that’s off. most vet dungeons are cake for random groups, even without a tank, as long as people aren’t half-asleep. Even in vet trials, regular players hop into PUGs all the time, and no one’s whining about “where’s the trinity?”—you can mix and match roles. Saying newbies gotta clear everything is a stretch.

Trinity’s More Like a Vibe: You’re all about the trinity being key, even in WoW. But ESO’s chill—Nightblades or Templars can DPS, heal, and take hits with the right setup. WoW’s newer stuff’s got classes doing the same. Trinity’s still a thing, but it’s not like you’re locked into it.

Cheesing’s Just Smart: You dissed “cheesing,” but that’s just playing the game! Kiting bosses, stacking for heals, or ducking behind walls—that’s how ESO rolls. In Banished Cells, you can blast through or lock down enemies, no tank needed. Ain’t cheating, it’s just clever.

Look, ESO lets you breeze through most vet dungeons and trials without a tank if your group’s got half a brain. People run PUGs every day, even vet trials, and nobody’s crying for a perfect trinity. WoW’s chilling out on strict roles too. You’re making the trinity sound way more important than it is.

I just cleared Dread and Stonegarden with a wonky group of fake tanks & Healers...if you CAN do this why go back?


Anyway were no going to agree on this....you keep playing stiff and I'll keep having fun k?

Already have your post covered when I said, and I quote "Being able to cheeese content is not the same as not needing a tank." and what you just described is cheeeese.

There was no need to reply when the rebuttal was aforementioned.

As far as playing stiff and asserting I am not having fun? That makes no sense. I am laid back, chilling with my mainecoons, drinking wine responsibly and play god mode on my HA oakensoul sorc and having a blast with a grin from ear to ear.

Sarannah wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I can't remember the last time anyone assigned a role in a Dungeon or Trial to be honest with you...just take my runs yesterday we ran VetTrials with two fake tanks one fake healer and a DPS....No one cared.

It's been the way things are for awhile now...I would be shocked if anyone these days demanded a old School Trinity...

The trinity is necessary in an MMORPG. Each role nonverbally communicates to other players what they will be doing in the dungeon/trial/raid etc.

This is how we know who will heal, who will DPS and who will tank.

Guild Wars 2 when it first came out did not have the trinity. This made running dungeons a royal pain in the bottom and not even remotely fun. Everyone ends up running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to dodge boss attacks.

If you do not want the "trinity" then you must also make the claim that you do not want 1 shot mechanics which would homogenize the game further than it already is.

The grip on end game in ESO has loosened you're just flat out wrong about it being integral in GW2 OR ESO ...even in WoW we can see the Trinity slowly dying

As for ESO...

When you can complete Vet Sunspire or RG with just Fake tanks and Healers? (Like NEFASQS complained about before he left ESO)

Yeah the Trinity is dead...

Incorrect. There are mechanics in ESO that will one shot any non tank build even to this day. Being able to cheeese content is not the same as not needing a tank.

When pugs can run every vet dungeon and trial in game with no experience and down the content THEN the idea that the trinity is dead will be legitmate.

But regardless. Everything I stated is true. The trinity exists for reasons I already laid out and this hold true today even in wow, especially in wow.

I agree with @Pixiepumpkin. The so-called decline of the trinity has not improved MMORPGs. It has flattened them.

What we have lost is not just tanks and healers but the entire structure that once gave group content meaning. I would welcome a return to the days when crowd control and support classes mattered. Enchanters in EverQuest were not there for damage. They were essential because they shaped how a group functioned.

Now everything trends toward raw DPS, and with it, the depth of combat and coordination continues to erode.

Well said, well written!

I can recall dungeons, not raids, but dungeons in wow where I had to freeze trap one mob, pet tank a second mob, and kite a third mob while the party took on the other 2. This happend A LOT and I got really good at it.

I was the main puller in raids. I had a very solid relationship with our tank and knew precicely when to drop aggro, get back in the mix and CC/DPS.

I always ALWAYS stool close to our healers. Always had a trap at their feet for that random escaped mob.

Combat was much more engaging, even taking into consideration of tab target combat vs action. I was always more engaged with the playfield in tab targeting than I am with action combat. Between slowing traps, kiting, stun traps, explosive knock back traps, different pet types who can tank or clutch heal...the amount of variety in any given encouter FAR exceeds what I see in this game. I am glad people are happy with it, but the idea that one is better than the other is nonsense.

Posts like these and @Pixiepumpkin and @sans-culottes remind me of how much I used to love running dungeons, in both ESO and the other game! Tactics and roles used to be important. Now everything is just DPS and one-shots... which is bad! In the past the players and how they played the game in a group used to be important.

Not sure if this is due to the games themselves choosing the non-trinity path more, or due to the playerbase not being able to perform their roles any longer, or due to the playerbases themselves changing into something that does not understand how important the MMO role trinity is for enjoying gaming.

PS: This would actually be a nice discussion to have in all those "fake role/speedrunner" threads, as it touches upon the main issue with the role trinity in MMO's and on how some players no longer even know what group roles mean or meant in the past. Maybe even ZOS itself lost sight of this.
PPS: Never liked tab-targeting itself as a mechanic, but switching and focussing targets was.

And posts like yours remind me of the reminder of all that cool stuff millions of people got to enjoy back in the day.
I am glad you got to experience it . Sadly, so many people today never got to experience the depth of classes and combat and all the fun things one could come up with.