AOE damage needs a rework

TheDefenestrator · April 30

After playing a bit on the PTS, my opinion on Fatecarver has changed a bit. I think fatecarver should be left alone, and it is ultimately good for the game for it to be strong. The way Ossein Cage is designed reflects this. Most of the fights have to do with dealing damage to spread out enemies, which could not currently be done efficiently without Fatecarver. I find the Ossein Cage encounters very engaging, and actually enjoy the skill expression involved in setting up and aiming your beam to hit as many targets as possible, as quickly as possible.

The problem is not Fatecarver's raw damage, but its overperformance in unstacked target scenarios. Take wall of elements as an example. With Maelstrom staff, 1 cast of wall should be stronger than 1 GCD worth of fatecarver, but once it's placed you cannot move it without commiting another cast, which can be a huge damage loss. This is unlike fatecarver, which you can dynamically shift to different targets. As you start shifting to newly spawning targets, the disparity between fatecarver and other AOE options grows much more than it does in stationary target scenarios.

This is a difficult problem to fix; If one attempts to buff other AOE options they could create imbalance. However, I want to raise a couple of suggestions.

1. Remove the 1 at a time limit on ground AOE skills. The ideal change would be that you can stack multiple ground AOEs, but each enemy can only take damage from the AOE every x seconds (where x is the normal tickrate of the AOE). This would stop players from stacking AOEs on top of each other for ST purposes.
2. Increase the length of wall of elements to 22 meters to match fatecarver. Look into giving other dots similar distance capabilities.

That is for ground DoTs. AOE Direct Damage is also too weak compared to DoTs. For unstacked scenarios, it performs very poorly. I can't think of too many things that could start to fix this except buffing/adding skills with ricochet effects. Skills like Ricochet Skull, Silver shards, and force pulse could be buffed to allow for their secondary effects to hit targets at longer ranges.

I think the level of AOE damage provided by Fatecarver is good for the game. However, I think it is dangerous that only fatecarver can provide this kind of output, and I think that Zenimax should explore options to empower other AOE options.

Joy_Division · April 30

I think your suggestions to give players AoE options without playing an Arcanist (or wearing one single set of the 600+ in game) is entirely too reasonable to get any traction from a community and a company who only thinks in terms of the nerf-hammer.

MashmalloMan · April 30

Another idea kinda related to this is to buff AOE class ground dots (all skills like this for that matter) to proc weapon enchantments.

As it stands, we're forced to use weapon ground dots to accomplish this which has vastly diminished build options. Especially when you consider how most people prefer rotations that have skill timers line up neatly.

For example, although it may not be optimal, I prefer to use Deadly Cloak on my Templar/Sorc because they both have many 20s duration skills on back bar like Hurricane, Barrage, Ritual, etc. That is the only 20s option though and it happens to be melee, the rest are 10-15s. Quick Cloak as 30s.

Frankly most of the class AOE ground dots are the easiest to drop right now because they tend to barely do even 50% more than 1 spammable over the course of 10s where enemies can walk out from, unlike 20-30s sticky dots which do between 100%-200% more damage per cast vs a spammable for guaranteed damage.

"If they did this, why would we ever use weapon ground dots again?"

Some people like them. They're good AOE DPS options still.
Not every class or setup with subclassing has a decent AOE ground dot, weapons provide a good alternative.
Weapon AOE ground dots still get buffed heavily by a 2p weapon. Not every build can fit or wants to fit a back bar 5p, so the 2p will still be a competitive option, outpacing many class dots.
With hybridization, subclassing, and scribing, the access to damage abilities has increased by 2-3x for most players. It's not like it was 6 years ago, when every stam build had Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, and Whirling Blades. We're already at a point where people tend to have only 1, maybe 2 weapon skills, and frankly most people like it this way because they pick a class and want to use that classes abilities, not generic universal 1s from weapons.

To clarify, this would also apply to skills like Caltrops, Mist Cloud, Arctic Blast, Sweep ult, Standard ult, etc. Basically anything that behaves like Volley (ranged AOE ground dot), Wall of Elements (melee AOE ground dot), or Blade Cloak (self AOE dots). This would not apply to sticky dots still like Degeneration, Vampires Bane, Venomous Claw, etc.

Also.. buff the aforementioned ground dots to their former glory. Remember the days when Liquid Lightning was a staple Sorc DPS ability pre 2020? It ticked every 0.5s and dealt like 3x the amount of a spammable over 12s? There's no question it's next to useless now, many other class dots are similarly disappointing. Remember when Caltrops was like 12m in radius and lasted 30s, man was that fun to use in Maelstrom Arena.. now it's a generic, weak, ground dot no one uses.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 1

TheDefenestrator wrote: »

is unlike fatecarver, which you can dynamically shift to different targets. As you start shifting to newly spawning targets, the disparity between fatecarver and other AOE options grows much more than it does in stationary target scenarios.

IMO the issue with Fatecarver is its damage tick frequency and damage type (shouldn't be considered a DoT)

If you simply casted a cone/ linear damage ability once a second for 4 seconds you should have a similar outcome (just more annoying to do so). It's not the repositioning of the damage which is the problem but it shouldn't be compared to ground dots like wall.

Ezhh · May 1

TheDefenestrator wrote: »

However, I think it is dangerous that only fatecarver can provide this kind of output, and I think that Zenimax should explore options to empower other AOE options.

I can't give this enough agrees. There needs to be a high cpm playstyle that can give the same AoE output, be as sustainable, have range, and still provide as much single target as beam does. This would open things again so that people can use whichever playstyle they prefer without worrying about bringing enough cleave to the group.