With Subclassing we need better Guild Skill lines

Zodiarkslayer · April 29

Creating viable Solo builds with Subclassing is a wee bit limiting. In itself subclassing gives more options, but if you are depending on certain buffs to survive or for your damage, your choices become limited very fast.

For example, if a Nightblade wants to swap out Shadow, it will need to find Major Savagery and Major Resolve in the new skill line. Or suffer the losses. Okay, Inner Light and Camo Hunter are always options, but Major Resolve can only be sourced from 6 out of the other 18 skill lines. Balance, Unstoppable and Savage Strength are non-class options, but either require you to wear 5 pieces heavy, be a werewolf or it has a 6k health cost, limiting your build even further.

The same can be said of Major Brutality/Sorcery. Yes, you can always chuck potions like a Witcher, but the result is the same. More limitations.

Scribed skills are also not an option, because they follow a different set of rules for their power. Any of these crucial Major buffs is only 10s long and necessitates the use of a specific weapon type. More limitations.

Putting additional sources for Major Brutality/Sorcery and Resolve in the guild skill lines would serve splendidly to resolve this. Maybe Brutality/Sorcery in Fighters Guild and Resolve on one of the massively underused Undaunted abilities. Maybe. Others need to decide this.

And while we are at it, there might be a case to rethink the guild lines.
I personally always thought that the Slayer passive from the Fighters Guild is too good to pass up. In my opinion it should mirror the Mages Guild Magicka Controller, only with MaxStamina and Stamina Recovery.

AhSeLYaG · April 29

At its current state sub classing will make classes more powerfull already. If its let to have every possible major minor buff at a single build this will be even worse.

tomofhyrule · April 29

RPGs are all about making choices.

If people are needing to choose between losing their native Class buffs/skills and gaining a different Class’s, then that’s actually the point. That’s how Subclassing should work.

I wish it would go more along those lines, honestly. Currently we have a lot of “I’m trading a line of skills I don’t use and passives I don’t need for obscene amounts of power,” which is not a reasonable choice.

Teeba_Shei · April 29

I think it creates interesting choices. Everyone was saying how OP they were going to be running all DPS skill lines, but I would love to see them execute that in practice. Enjoy having low sustain and low defense.

tomofhyrule · April 29

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

I think it creates interesting choices. Everyone was saying how OP they were going to be running all DPS skill lines, but I would love to see them execute that in practice. Enjoy having low sustain and low defense.

Problem there is it’s totally possible to have no defense and no sustain in practice… provided you have healers giving you the sustain and defense you’re lacking.

That’s one of the things people are railing about - the fact that in solo content at least, the idea is sound. But in a well-equipped group, you’re losing nothing and gaining everything.

Subclassing is essentially just allowing coordinated groups to jump leagues ahead if everyone else because they already have the other group members to cover their weaknesses, and now they can trade “nothing” for “way more power.”

But it’s not like coordinated groups being 10000x better than uncoordinated zergs is already a problem in PvP or in comparing group finder PuGs to sweaty trial cores… right?

Zodiarkslayer · April 29

AhSeLYaG wrote: »

At its current state sub classing will make classes more powerfull already. If its let to have every possible major minor buff at a single build this will be even worse.

I disagree. As it is, only some will be getting more powerful. Not all.

And I am not requesting all Major and Minor buffs be made available to all. That would be ridiculous. I am asking for the three most important.
Major Resolve
Major Brutality/Sorcery
Major Savagery/Prophecy

YandereGirlfriend · April 29

I mean, this was basically "Life As A Necro" prior to a few patches ago when they finally tossed the class some core buffs that all of the other classes have enjoyed since the beta. To a lesser degree, Templar as well. It really made you wince at having to slot the otherwise-awful Degeneration simply for Major Sorcery, etc.

There are also strong points made every now and then about how Magelight/Camo Hunter should be re-worked into actual skills rather than the passive mandatory-but-joyless eaters of bar space that they are today.

Of course, Scribing fills many of these holes as well. And that will be part of the base game next patch. But even with that change, yes, bringing some additional gameplay elements to these lines would be greatly welcomed. Also, Undaunted ultimate, anyone? Heh.

Stx · April 29

With scribing and subclassing, creating builds is more flexible than it has ever been.

In your example that is given, yes if you want to swap out shadow you would need to find major resolve, which in my planned builds will be coming from storm calling. That’s just part of buildcraft and what makes buildcraft fun. It wouldn’t be fun if you just easily got every major buff.

Finedaible · April 29

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

[...]
I personally always thought that the Slayer passive from the Fighters Guild is too good to pass up. In my opinion it should mirror the Mages Guild Magicka Controller, only with MaxStamina and Stamina Recovery.

I've been thinking the same for a while now. Most optimized builds include at least 1 front bar Fighter's skill because Slayer scales so well. With subclassing I think they should finally drop weapon and spell damage since everyone is gaining relatively more power anyway.

Cominfordatoothbrush · April 29

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

I think it creates interesting choices. Everyone was saying how OP they were going to be running all DPS skill lines, but I would love to see them execute that in practice. Enjoy having low sustain and low defense.

this is kinda how pve is already tbh. with very few exceptions unless a dps is being put in a situation where they'll be totally without a healer, they just slot nothing but whatever skills will do the most damage