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Change from 2 to 1 Skill lines on subclasses
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Aelthwyn✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).I definitely want to be able to change two skill lines. I've been dying to mix classes since the very beginning, to combine different elements that match a character's personality or color-scheme. I can't wait to try all kinds of different combinations! One of which, as mentioned above, would be the classic elemental destruction trio of fire frost and shock, not having to choose between them as we do now by which staff or class we use.
I really wish we could subclass two from the same class, or fully class swap. My main character should never have been a nightblade, but warden didn't exist when I made him and once he was a master crafter with all the motif knowledge remaking is not an option. I'd love to be able to swap in animal companions And green balance.
Personally..... I get very frustrated when people's competativeness about something that is just a game after all, causes other people who are just trying to enjoy themselves to have less fun because their creativity has to be restricted so that the competitive people can not whine about unfairness, ease, and balance. I know it's a really hard thing for the game creators to try to please both types of players, those looking to prove themselves and those looking to express themselves. I'd like to see the non-competative people recognized as Serious gamers too, dedicated to 'winning' by thoroghly enjoying creative engagement.2 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.VoidCommander wrote: »The_Meathead wrote: »
The new spear looks infinitely better. Stop lying to yourself. When people want the “old spear” back, they want the 4 hit effect, not the physical design.
No we hate both the old model and animation regardless of the old 4 hit effect being removed just like dual wielders hate the new flurry animation. It’s about the visual as it’s not very Templar like to flail about in a weird fishing motion with a night hollow staff/shovel. We already have customizable actions this would be a prime opportunity to make everyone happy but we only get silence from ZoS on this topic since it changed a couple of years ago.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).Erickson9610 wrote: »How will we get to play an elementalist if we can't have Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Ardent Flame together?
What is this strange obsession I'm seeing with an elementalist? That build will be garbage in anything that's not overland anyway. If it deprives people of a useless gimmick build while making the game easier to balance and not forcing us to abandon 2/3 of our chosen class for whatever's meta then it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make. You know the game will be balanced around the strongest combinations, and forget getting any buffs to your class lines, Zos will be like "just swap them out lol".
Dunno about ardent flame, but winters is going to be the key subclass for a LOT of pvp builds
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amig186✭✭✭✭✭
✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.Erickson9610 wrote: »How will we get to play an elementalist if we can't have Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Ardent Flame together?
What is this strange obsession I'm seeing with an elementalist? That build will be garbage in anything that's not overland anyway. If it deprives people of a useless gimmick build while making the game easier to balance and not forcing us to abandon 2/3 of our chosen class for whatever's meta then it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make. You know the game will be balanced around the strongest combinations, and forget getting any buffs to your class lines, Zos will be like "just swap them out lol".
Dunno about ardent flame, but winters is going to be the key subclass for a LOT of pvp builds
Yes, I can imagine. I reckon they'll take assassination as the 3rdPC EU0 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.
This stays true no matter how many skill lines can be replaced. One skill line limitation will at least somewhat limit the chaosHere's what's going to happen if it's only 1 tree :
pve:
Everyone picks herald of the tome except arc, who can grab corpseburster. There's no reason to take anything else as fatecarver is beyond OP. This means that we're back to an arc meta where everyone is on the same class
pvp:
Everyone takes assassination. I don't think I have to elaborate too much on how this is going to get very boring very fast in cyrodiil
These problems are going to be here with 2 trees too but at least you have 1 more tree to try out different builds with
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necro_the_crafter✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).Imagine how much worse it would had been with 1 skill line for choise. It means that the best skill lines is that much better, and worst skill lines is even worse.
With one skilline we would have assassination for PvP and herald for PvE as a BiS skill lines and thats it.
Wich means people would coomplain about them much more, and they will get nuked with banhammer one day. And then the next BiS skillines, and so on ... until everyone runs HA builds since every skilline had been obliteraited from the orbit.1 -
BasP✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).Elvenheart wrote: »Elvenheart wrote: »Elvenheart wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »How will we get to play an elementalist if we can't have Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Ardent Flame together?
@Erickson9610 I'm actually hoping I can make elementalist work for a brand new character I'm planning to make. Have you tested one on the PTS, and if so are you noticing anything about it - is it good, is it missing anything important, the best base class to use, etc?
Coincidentally I was messing around with that setup on the PTS today, but while the combination of skills looked cool my DPS was pretty bad (only 126K). I'll be the first to admit that I'm a mediocre player and that others would definitely get better results than me with the exact same setup, but still, even I can do 150K+ DPS on the PTS with other subclass combinations.
As for the base class - I don't think it matters much, unless you want to use one of the Class Sets of course. But none of Class Sets of those classes are really great at the moment (I personally hope that the Winter's Embrace skill set we'll get one day will be awesome for Frost Damage builds).
Thank you for the info! And I hope Wardens get a good set too!
Although the first 3 skill lines that come to mind are Frost, Storm, and Ardent Flame, conceptually Earthen Heart could replace any one of those since in the end no matter what we’re only going to have three of the four elements represented. The question would be if that would provide a benefit, and if so, which of the other three lines would be best to give up?
While I haven't tested it, I don't think Earthen Heart would be better than those other three skill lines. The only EH passive that increases DPS somewhat is Mountain's Blessing, seeing as it grants Minor Brutality, and the skill line only has one decent skill for DPS (Eruption). Seeing as Eruption deals Flame Damage though, thematically it'd make sense to replace Ardent Flame with it and that would definitely be a DPS loss.
Come to think of it, you could start your new character as a Dragonknight though. In that case you could use Ardent Flame and combine it with Earthen Heart, Storm Calling or Winter's Embrace.1 -
Zeldrosi✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.Erickson9610 wrote: »How will we get to play an elementalist if we can't have Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Ardent Flame together?
I voted for 1 before reading this comment, and it immediately changed my mind. You're right, its gotta be 2.2 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.
This certainly doesn’t mean good skill lines are better and bad worse. It’s simple, with 1 changeable skill line players would use best skill line A, with 2 skill lines they will use best skill line A and second best or one that complements A best skill line B.necro_the_crafter wrote: »Imagine how much worse it would had been with 1 skill line for choise. It means that the best skill lines is that much better, and worst skill lines is even worse.
With one skilline we would have assassination for PvP and herald for PvE as a BiS skill lines and thats it.
Wich means people would coomplain about them much more, and they will get nuked with banhammer one day. And then the next BiS skillines, and so on ... until everyone runs HA builds since every skilline had been obliteraited from the orbit.
Nerfs will happen regardless because the situation is the same
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necro_the_crafter✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »This certainly doesn’t mean good skill lines are better and bad worse. It’s simple, with 1 changeable skill line players would use best skill line A, with 2 skill lines they will use best skill line A and second best or one that complements A best skill line B.
Nerfs will happen regardless because the situation is the same
Yeah, but if look on the forming PvE meta, you need both grave lord and herald to make easy to use high dps build. Which would be best on arcs, second best on necro. And the rest of classes cant use both, so they will definately go for beam, and will end up with less dps than curently possible on pts (with beam setups). Not going for herald will be a suboptimal decision.
And still gap between classes will be much higher than currently is.
If you consider PvP, right now plardenblade is the best, but sloting restoring light and assassinations on other classes is also decent, so there isnt a wide gap between classes. If only 1 line is possible, nbs are at the top and plars/wardens are second best, while everybody else are suboptimal.
2 skill lines makes less of a gap between base classes.
It also pains me that ZoS sacrifised class identity to multiclassing, and also I think that 2 skill lines is introducing much more powercreep than 1 skilline, and agree that nerfs would've happen regardless.
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Remathilis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep it as it is (change 2 skill lines).Erickson9610 wrote: »You know the game will be balanced around the strongest combinations, and forget getting any buffs to your class lines, Zos will be like "just swap them out lol".
Class identity was always second to the meta. If someone is so concerned about maintaining class identity, then they shouldn't expect their Class to also be the meta.
There may have been individual metas for each Class before, but there was always one which performed the best. Now that each Class skill line is individually balanced as modular toolkits, there should be a clear singular meta which people have no excuse not to chase if they want to play the meta above anything else.
That's my problem, I was never kicked out of a trial group for not playing an arcanist, but now that switching out skill lines will be as simple as 123, I know I'll be expected to do that even in stuff that's not endgame. Because if I'm right then the power creep will force Zos to either continue nerfing class lines across the board or to buff NPC bosses accordingly. Not to mention that any 'fun' combos will be entirely useless as a result. They could at least let me keep most of the class I picked because I liked how it plays.
Bring a stamblade to a hard mode prog and see how quick your told to change or leave. Or maybe bring a DK healer. I have several healers parked because I'm asked to just bring my warden. Maybe I can play my Templar or necro healer again if I give them some warden or nightblade abilities.1 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.If so many players agree that something is brocken against their immediate gain maybe ZOS should lissen...0 -
Wereswan✭✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.Remathilis wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »You know the game will be balanced around the strongest combinations, and forget getting any buffs to your class lines, Zos will be like "just swap them out lol".
Class identity was always second to the meta. If someone is so concerned about maintaining class identity, then they shouldn't expect their Class to also be the meta.
There may have been individual metas for each Class before, but there was always one which performed the best. Now that each Class skill line is individually balanced as modular toolkits, there should be a clear singular meta which people have no excuse not to chase if they want to play the meta above anything else.
That's my problem, I was never kicked out of a trial group for not playing an arcanist, but now that switching out skill lines will be as simple as 123, I know I'll be expected to do that even in stuff that's not endgame. Because if I'm right then the power creep will force Zos to either continue nerfing class lines across the board or to buff NPC bosses accordingly. Not to mention that any 'fun' combos will be entirely useless as a result. They could at least let me keep most of the class I picked because I liked how it plays.
Bring a stamblade to a hard mode prog and see how quick your told to change or leave. Or maybe bring a DK healer. I have several healers parked because I'm asked to just bring my warden. Maybe I can play my Templar or necro healer again if I give them some warden or nightblade abilities.
Guess that answers my question of which of my healers to focus on at least. It's a shame; healblade is surprisingly fun.0 -
Evil_Rurouni✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »How will we get to play an elementalist if we can't have Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling, and Ardent Flame together?
Get 2 elements from class lines and the third from destruction staff and scribing.0 -
XIIICaesar✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.I think only one subclass skill line would be better for maintaining the primary class identity. HOWEVER, if going 2 I don't understand why it's 2 of 2 different classes. In keeping with how othe rMMOs have subclassing or secondary professions etc we should've been able to swap 2 lines for 2 from the same class. Like a Templar with 2 DK lines or Necro w/ 2 NB lines. NOT only 1 from each class. My only gripe really.0 -
Wereswan✭✭✭✭make it so only 1 skill line can be change at a time.XIIICaesar wrote: »I think only one subclass skill line would be better for maintaining the primary class identity. HOWEVER, if going 2 I don't understand why it's 2 of 2 different classes. In keeping with how othe rMMOs have subclassing or secondary professions etc we should've been able to swap 2 lines for 2 from the same class. Like a Templar with 2 DK lines or Necro w/ 2 NB lines. NOT only 1 from each class. My only gripe really.
Presumably the restriction is because if you create, say, a Sorceror(1)/Templar(2), it's essentially identical to a Templar(2)/Sorceror(1), except you have two skill lines that cost double. There's also a few things like the class motifs and sets where it might be weird for that Sorceror(1)/Templar(2) to be using the Sorceror ones as opposed to Templar (since the character is more Templar than Sorceror,) but that seems like a pretty minor issue.0
