Winter's Embrace Feedback Megapost. Update 11.0.0

ESO_Nightingale · April 16

I'm still struggling to test anything properly on the pts. Skills not firing is a major issue

madmufffin · April 16

It's been much better today in my experience

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

It's been much better today in my experience

I haven't jumped on today yet but as of last night it was still pretty rough. Will have a look when i get home.

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

Before i do additional testing today, i updated the main post with the idea i had for a new payoff skill for dpsing with winter's embrace.
let me know what you guys think.

edit: i forgot to mention i originally intended the explosion to remove the debuff from the target, but theoretically i could lower it's damage so that it'd be fair if you could detonate it multiple times over 10 seconds.

madmufffin · April 17

That's way too big brain for a rework lol. Cool idea though.

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

That's way too big brain for a rework lol. Cool idea though.

Thanks. Yeah it's probably futile to make ideas like this. But i think its the last thing holding frost builds back.

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

Managed to get some really solid testing in, i'm pretty crap at this rotation but i'm learning. managing master frost reach, blighted blastbones AND merciless resolve, as well as impale/killers blade in execute is super difficult, but it feels pretty cool:

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madmufffin · April 17

I feel like you just run KB and can drop the reach from your rotation all together at the end. I also think sub assault is much better if you have an execute since you have so many gcds between casts. Does make you really reliant on your archer not dying somewhere stupid for siphon though. Maybe try to run embrace over archer?

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

I feel like you just run KB and can drop the reach from your rotation all together at the end. I also think sub assault is much better if you have an execute since you have so many gcds between casts. Does make you really reliant on your archer not dying somewhere stupid for siphon though. Maybe try to run embrace over archer?

I feel like rotating reach every 4 seconds at the end is still important for the masters ice staff bonus. Because that's still juicing up killers blade, blastbones and bow proc. But I'm still at a loss for when i should stop refreshing my DoTs and when i should lean hard into spamming killers blade over frost reach.

madmufffin · April 17

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I feel like you just run KB and can drop the reach from your rotation all together at the end. I also think sub assault is much better if you have an execute since you have so many gcds between casts. Does make you really reliant on your archer not dying somewhere stupid for siphon though. Maybe try to run embrace over archer?

I feel like rotating reach every 4 seconds at the end is still important for the masters ice staff bonus. Because that's still juicing up killers blade, blastbones and bow proc. But I'm still at a loss for when i should stop refreshing my DoTs and when i should lean hard into spamming killers blade over frost reach.

I did the math yesterday vs whip since I'm running a dk/nb/den setup right now and it was at 36% and I just kept sub assault up all the way through execute. I never used the bow proc and hit 131k with a much worse weave time than yours

For frost reach idk if it can be straight mathed because of the weapon bonus, but if you're running sub it makes the rotation a lot smoother imo. I think at like 15% you just drop all dots except for wall.

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I feel like you just run KB and can drop the reach from your rotation all together at the end. I also think sub assault is much better if you have an execute since you have so many gcds between casts. Does make you really reliant on your archer not dying somewhere stupid for siphon though. Maybe try to run embrace over archer?

I feel like rotating reach every 4 seconds at the end is still important for the masters ice staff bonus. Because that's still juicing up killers blade, blastbones and bow proc. But I'm still at a loss for when i should stop refreshing my DoTs and when i should lean hard into spamming killers blade over frost reach.

I did the math yesterday vs whip since I'm running a dk/nb/den setup right now and it was at 36% and I just kept sub assault up all the way through execute. I never used the bow proc and hit 131k with a much worse weave time than yours For frost reach idk if it can be straight mathed because of the weapon bonus, but if you're running sub it makes the rotation a lot smoother imo. I think at like 15% you just drop all dots except for wall.

its very difficult getting used to a new rotation, but i definitely like the challenge of maintaining all of this stuff with the current build i have. i need to optimise what i've got here, but i do plan to play with some other settups soon.

madmufffin · April 17

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

BasP · April 17

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see what setups people come up with using the Animal Companions skill line and the bear. I'm bad at parsing and theory crafting, and even I could do 146K DPS with a WarBlade and 152K DPS with a beamless WarBladeAnist (both while wearing Null Arca and the new crafted set that increases direct damage). So other players can probably do some nice things with it.

ESO_Nightingale · April 17

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see what setups people come up with using the Animal Companions skill line and the bear. I'm bad at parsing and theory crafting, and even I could do 146K DPS with a WarBlade and 152K DPS with a beamless WarBladeAnist (both while wearing Null Arca and the new crafted set that increases direct damage). So other players can probably do some nice things with it.

Are you able to post more details about what you used so i can replicate it?

ESO_Nightingale · April 18

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

i tried using bear again and it didn't really feel like a dps increase over my strange gravelord/assassination/winter's embrace settup.

been struggling today for sure.

madmufffin · April 18

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

i tried using bear again and it didn't really feel like a dps increase over my strange gravelord/assassination/winter's embrace settup.

been struggling today for sure.

Just hard to make anything better than front bar incap

madmufffin · April 18

No matter what I try, I can't make a justifiable way to fit in Winter's Embrace. It just has an awful rotation trying to do dot shenanigans with DK and Cro too.

BasP · April 18

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see what setups people come up with using the Animal Companions skill line and the bear. I'm bad at parsing and theory crafting, and even I could do 146K DPS with a WarBlade and 152K DPS with a beamless WarBladeAnist (both while wearing Null Arca and the new crafted set that increases direct damage). So other players can probably do some nice things with it.

Are you able to post more details about what you used so i can replicate it?

Sure (though I hope you didn't think I used Frost Staffs to get those results).

Stamina Warden + Nightblade + Arcanist (153K)

Magicka Warden + Nightblade + Arcanist (150K)

Stamina Warden + Nightblade (146K)

Magicka Warden + Nightblade (144K)

madmufffin · April 18

BasP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see what setups people come up with using the Animal Companions skill line and the bear. I'm bad at parsing and theory crafting, and even I could do 146K DPS with a WarBlade and 152K DPS with a beamless WarBladeAnist (both while wearing Null Arca and the new crafted set that increases direct damage). So other players can probably do some nice things with it.

Are you able to post more details about what you used so i can replicate it?

Sure (though I hope you didn't think I used Frost Staffs to get those results).

Stamina Warden + Nightblade + Arcanist (153K)

Magicka Warden + Nightblade + Arcanist (150K)

Stamina Warden + Nightblade (146K)

Magicka Warden + Nightblade (144K)

Beautiful. Also good to know Tide-Born is actually usable.

madmufffin · April 18

I currently can't put enchants on my Tide-Born to test it, but I hit 140k on the Dread setup with absolute doggers weave of .23. Feels very strong for single target.

BasP · April 18

madmufffin wrote: »

I currently can't put enchants on my Tide-Born to test it, but I hit 140k on the Dread setup with absolute doggers weave of .23. Feels very strong for single target.

Nice! Yeah, I like the set as well. I'd like it more if it would receive a little buff and would increase all direct damage by 15%, but I suppose that it's quite decent at the moment too.

Though I admittedly got lucky with the number of critical hits at the end, I did manage to get 154K on the Stam Warden/Nightblade setup by slotting Banner Bearer, which is pretty good for my skill level (it's nowhere near the Arcanist's 170K, but still...). It's a shame that the current Piercing Cold passive doesn't add much to this setup though. Hopefully that passive gets buffed during this PTS.

madmufffin · April 18

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I currently can't put enchants on my Tide-Born to test it, but I hit 140k on the Dread setup with absolute doggers weave of .23. Feels very strong for single target.

Nice! Yeah, I like the set as well. I'd like it more if it would receive a little buff and would increase all direct damage by 15%, but I suppose that it's quite decent at the moment too.

Though I admittedly got lucky with the number of critical hits at the end, I did manage to get 154K on the Stam Warden/Nightblade setup by slotting Banner Bearer, which is pretty good for my skill level (it's nowhere near the Arcanist's 170K, but still...). It's a shame that the current Piercing Cold passive doesn't add much to this setup though. Hopefully that passive gets buffed during this PTS.

I was thinking of using banner for my savagery and prophecy but wasn't sure how to set it up aside from that. My weave is bad, so less buttons always is appreciated

Any reason you ran trap over winter's? And yeah Piercing Cold really needs to be buffed to give more frost damage (like 15%) or add in other components like % more damage/crit chance. A little buff to Tide-Born's would be dope. Make it equal to Deadly since that's used by everything now anyways.

phazongrave · April 18

The 10% frost feels like a slap to the face to the warden skill line. I know with subclassing theyre trying to make each skill line its own but frost has predominantly been a tank back bar or pvp focused element. Most other frost damage from other non class skill lines are subpar. The destro frost doesn't really do anything pve wise since its 'tank' aspect is just an after thought

ESO_Nightingale · April 19

BasP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I need to find a setup that lets me use the bear. Pablo makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious to see what setups people come up with using the Animal Companions skill line and the bear. I'm bad at parsing and theory crafting, and even I could do 146K DPS with a WarBlade and 152K DPS with a beamless WarBladeAnist (both while wearing Null Arca and the new crafted set that increases direct damage). So other players can probably do some nice things with it.

Are you able to post more details about what you used so i can replicate it?

Sure (though I hope you didn't think I used Frost Staffs to get those results).

nah im not stupid lol

ESO_Nightingale · April 19

I've decided to ask for help in testing settups. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong other than rotationally.

ESO_Nightingale · April 20

Kortekk did a parse using my initial settup i was testing:

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I have no idea how to claw out another 15k lol.
i'm definitely doing something rotationally wrong here.

Shagreth · April 20

Pure Frost warden is one of my favorite combos, hope they listen.

BasP · April 20

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Kortekk did a parse using my initial settup i was testing:

I have no idea how to claw out another 15k lol.
i'm definitely doing something rotationally wrong here.

It's nice to see that a double frost staff setup is capable of hitting those numbers at least. Sadly, I can't give you any tips on a rotation. I replicated that setup and parsed a couple of times myself, but I didn't get above 134K DPS... the PTS is really lagging for me right now though, which makes parsing a pain. But still, I don't really see myself getting to 143K either with the rotation I was using.

randconfig · April 20

The changes to the passives I like, I'm just concerned that the new Icy Aura will add to the server stress since it adds the debuff to any nearby enemy. So up to n calculations, where n is the number of nearby enemies.

It would be better for the server if icy aura gave the buff stacks to ONLY the player, and at 5 stacks, boosted the player's damage mitigation by 10%. So a single calculation, instead of n calculations.

Remember ZOS, the calculations add up, especially in ball group fights in Cyrodiil!

EDIT: Just wanted to say, in PvE, Icy Aura passive feels useless since enemies don't attack frequently enough to maintain stacks.

randconfig · April 20

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

The main thing is that Warden has become reliant on that more damage component to stay functional in endgame pvp. Taking it away forces you full-stop to use only frost skills or throw the whole line away. I play stamden in a tri core and I already have to work harder than arcs just to keep within a respectable range of their dps while having 2x their cpm. Losing 8% more damage and only having it instead buff 20% of my damage by an extra 2% will probably force me to have to switch off using Warden for subclassing entirely. I really like Warden and its design, but I'm also not gonna gimp myself for rp or personal affection.

I don't want to sound rude or anything but i feel like I'm thinking about subclassing differently than other people. Based on what you've said i don't really see why in your case, dropping the line is an issue if you do want to do more damage, but on the other side, if you really do like the theme of the line and want to use it, why is the line becoming more specialised within itself bad? We can all agree it's undertuned but I swear I'm going crazy here. People now can be anything they like!

I really like the class and want to get to play cool components of it (forgive the pun) but also don't want to see it just needlessly get nerfed back to a previous abandoned poor state. I would've happily done animal companions, assassinations, winter's and enjoyed it, but can't now.

They buffed the passives for Animal Companion's skill tree to provide more % damage didn't they? So you're not exactly losing the 8% from the passive, also you had you be incredibly squishy to utilize the 8% from the passive, as stepping over 30k hp would remove it. I guess that doesn't matter as much in PvE, but in PvP it killed the class for me, which is why I'm happy with these changes.