How could subclassing be improved (by ChatGPT)

a_u_s_t_y · April 19

Zenimax can absolutely make subclassing in ESO work — even thrive — but it has to be done very carefully. Here’s how they could improve and polish the new system so it enhances the game instead of derailing it:

1. Preserve Class Identity
Each class (Nightblade, Templar, etc.) has a distinct theme and playstyle. Subclassing should:

Reinforce that identity (e.g., Dragonknight subclasses still feel martial/fire-based).
Avoid making everything feel like “generic magic user #4.”
Fix: Lock subclasses to thematic options or create class-specific subclass trees instead of open-ended mix-and-match.

2. Slow, Phased Rollout
Don’t drop all subclasses at once. Instead:

Start with one subclass per class, gather feedback, and adjust.
Use PTS (Public Test Server) aggressively for tuning.

3. Strict PvP vs PvE Separation
Balance in ESO PvP is already volatile. Subclassing could break it.

Use separate scaling or modifiers in Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, etc.
Or even disable certain subclass features in PvP, similar to how CP gets disabled in no-CP campaigns.

4. Clear Build Trade-offs
Subclassing should be about customization, not power stacking.

Make sure each subclass offers a new path, not just straight-up upgrades.
Build options should come with trade-offs: more mobility = less sustain, etc.

5. Revamp Outdated Skills and Sets
Subclassing only works well if the foundation is solid.

Update old class skills and underused sets to keep pace.
Otherwise, everyone will just subclass into the newest meta build and ignore the rest.

6. Lore Integration
ESO has a strong narrative backbone. If subclassing feels like a random MMO mechanic, players will reject it.

Tie subclassing into in-game systems (e.g., Daedric blessings, lost schools of magic, ancient martial orders).
Use quests to earn subclass powers, making it immersive.

7. Visual & Audio Polish
This stuff matters in ESO’s presentation-heavy world.

Make subclass abilities look and sound unique, but still in line with the parent class.
No reused animations — players notice.

8. Community Engagement
Let players help shape the system:

Run design contests or public feedback polls.
Feature popular subclass builds and player concepts.

Bottom Line:
Zenimax can make subclassing a huge success if they:

Respect class identity,
Keep it balanced and meaningful,
And give it depth and purpose beyond “more buttons = more DPS.”
Would you want subclasses to be like full new trees, or more like passive perks or morph-style upgrades?

Syldras · April 19

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

Zenimax can absolutely make subclassing in ESO work — even thrive — but it has to be done very carefully. Here’s how they could improve and polish the new system so it enhances the game instead of derailing it:
1. Preserve Class Identity
Each class (Nightblade, Templar, etc.) has a distinct theme and playstyle. Subclassing should:
Reinforce that identity (e.g., Dragonknight subclasses still feel martial/fire-based).

This already shows that the thing didn't really understand what subclassing means in the context of ESO (which is not surprising, because "sub-classing" actually doesn't mean mixing different things, but going deeper and specialising one thing to a variant; funny real life example: if "doctor" would be a class, "subclasses" of "doctor" would be "ophthalmologist", "dermatologist", "endocrinologist",... not somehow mixing "doctor" with "gardener" and "mechanic").

AdmiralDigby · April 19

Syldras wrote: »

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

Zenimax can absolutely make subclassing in ESO work — even thrive — but it has to be done very carefully. Here’s how they could improve and polish the new system so it enhances the game instead of derailing it:
1. Preserve Class Identity
Each class (Nightblade, Templar, etc.) has a distinct theme and playstyle. Subclassing should:
Reinforce that identity (e.g., Dragonknight subclasses still feel martial/fire-based).

This already shows that the thing didn't really understand what subclassing means in the context of ESO (which is not surprising, because "sub-classing" actually doesn't mean mixing different things, but going deeper and specialising one thing to a variant; funny real life example: if "doctor" would be a class, "subclasses" of "doctor" would be "ophthalmologist", "dermatologist", "endocrinologist",... not somehow mixing "doctor" with "gardener" and "mechanic").

While is does get some things off. I feel alot of the AI suggestions are quite good actually.

Cooperharley · April 19

These suggestions are cool and would go along with what "sub-classing" actually is. They definitely chose the wrong terminology with what they implemented and could easily fix it, similar to how they went to the infinite archive from what they had before. It really should be termed "multi classing" as we're taking core components from other classes entirely, not creating new specializations within dragonknight or templar for instance.

The other thing is that they've been working on this for quite some time - as they do with all releases. I keep seeing posts similar to this - there is absolutely zero chance that they make anything close to this big of a change to the system. By the time we hear about releases and content coming out, it's coming whether we like it or not. Things that change are typically tweaks like percentage nerfs and buffs to different skills as we saw with the week 1 patch notes. Whether we like it or not, the best feedback outside of voicing an opinion will be how to make what they've brought out better, not saying "we should scrap the entire system and do this instead." There's just simply not enough time to do something of that magnitude

Syldras · April 19

AdmiralDigby wrote: »

While is does get some things off. I feel alot of the AI suggestions are quite good actually

I'm not saying a machine can't combine different info fragments to draw clues between them effectively (because that's basically what AI does). But it has to get the correct input to work with. Also, replies can be faulty, so everything has to be double-checked. And in the end, all we actually can get are impulses to think about and make our own reasonings. Let's say I sadly see that happen rather rarely.

incite · April 19

AI making valid points, especially point 3.

Lystrad · April 19

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

Zenimax can absolutely make subclassing in ESO work — even thrive — but it has to be done very carefully. Here’s how they could improve and polish the new system so it enhances the game instead of derailing it:

1. Preserve Class Identity
Each class (Nightblade, Templar, etc.) has a distinct theme and playstyle. Subclassing should:

Reinforce that identity (e.g., Dragonknight subclasses still feel martial/fire-based).
Avoid making everything feel like “generic magic user #4.”
Fix: Lock subclasses to thematic options or create class-specific subclass trees instead of open-ended mix-and-match.

I feel like this specific suggestion really underestimates how many people want to play "generic magic user #4" specifically. Not saying I'm not overestimating it either, but I know there's a fair amount.

To answer the question though, no. I wouldn't want subclasses to be full trees that expand on the existing classes. The specific reason I like subclassing is that, for most of my characters there are specific parts of their kit that don't fit their identity. Adding extra of the existing class on top, doesn't solve that problem, it's a problem that can only be solved either through shaving off the parts that don't fit. or by dramatically expanding what kinds of skills are available through weapon, guild, and world skill lines either via just baseline more abilities or new scribing grimoires, to the point that it's no longer even necessary to run class abilities outside of activating specific passives you might want.

Subclassing is fine as is in my opinion, they just need a way to balance it to keep altered classes and unaltered classes relatively similar in terms of output, assuming that's even possible. My suggestion would be to take necro, arcanist, and warden and shuffle their passives around (where it makes sense thematically, some renaming might be in order) so they're more like the original classes and don't have role focused passives so easily cherry picked.

Sadzonka · April 19

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

1. Preserve Class Identity
Each class (Nightblade, Templar, etc.) has a distinct theme and playstyle. Subclassing should:

Reinforce that identity (e.g., Dragonknight subclasses still feel martial/fire-based).
Avoid making everything feel like “generic magic user #4.”
Fix: Lock subclasses to thematic options or create class-specific subclass trees instead of open-ended mix-and-match.

This is great, subclassing would be amazing if they did something new and fun and not mix existing classes.

Especially that a lot of classes already have distinct themes, and we can push those themes further in different directions. For example: warden -> 2 subclasses to choose from (ice master or animal druid), sorcerer -> 2 subclasses to choose from (storm master or daedric summoner) etc...
This would be a new and exciting way for class development (especially modernization of old classes) for ESO.

Malyore · April 19

Maybe they should acknowledge the current system as multiclassing, and then introduce subclassing later down the road for people who don't want to multiclass

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 20

Best way to preserve class identity is to have a primary class buff based on how many primary class skill lines you're using in order to give the player a reason to stay a pure class.

Using 1 Primary Class Skill Line would grant no boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Aedric Spear and Grave Lord)

Using 2 Primary Class Skill Lines would grant a 5% boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Shadow and Grave Lord)

Using 3 Primary Class Skill Lines would grant a 10% boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Shadow and Siphoning)

BattleAxe · April 20

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Best way to preserve class identity is to have a primary class buff based on how many primary class skill lines you're using in order to give the player a reason to stay a pure class.

Using 1 Primary Class Skill Line would grant no boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Aedric Spear and Grave Lord)

Using 2 Primary Class Skill Lines would grant a 5% boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Shadow and Grave Lord)

Using 3 Primary Class Skill Lines would grant a 10% boost to stats (An NB with Assassination, Shadow and Siphoning)

Then why would anyone bother subclassing to begin with. Reason subclassing is such a strong thing is becuz u can essentially remove 2 class skill lines that are not dps focused for 2 lines that are. So raw power wise sub classing is gonna be stronger than pure class. People want a reason to stay pure class you love the class enough said. Class identity from my standpoint I can improve my mains class identity with subclassing dk (dot class) I can now boost my dks dots and status effects even more with subclassing.

gc0018 · April 20

Now I see why some people hate AI. Chatgpt is clearly cleverer than many of the Devs. If I am the boss, I would rather hire more programmers than Devs and let Ai to polish most idea. If the Devs can't prove they have some unique value than AI, they are doomed.

Oh, wait, AI can also do programming....