The Prologue's Writing is.... Well... [Spoilers]

Syldras · April 2025

Juomuuri wrote: »

This trend of NPCs repeating quest objectives three times in one minute or less is driving me nuts. It's the worst part about the newer dialogue for me, and this makes me think if they're aiming to please zoomers with TikTok brainrot...

They could limit that to the end of dialogue at least. So let the characters talk about "the guild hall" throughout the dialogue and only let the player character say "Alright, let's meet again at the Shornhelm Fighters Guild." to finish the conversation. Would still feel more natural.

spartaxoxo · April 2025

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Yeah the dialogue writing for this prologue was just especially terrible. It feels like AI was used somehow and there was little to no review on the script. Even the player response options had cheesy writing.

"Let's head to the Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm." My guy, we are in Shornhelm; we are underground, in the Mages' Guild, in Shornhelm. You don't need to specify "in Shornhelm" while we are in Shornhelm. "Let's head to the Fighter's Guild topside" would be much more suitable.

You know what? Sure! Let's just rename the Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm the "Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm".

This is not a new thing in ESO's writing, though, and it's very common, much to my chagrin. The Vestige or the npc, or sometimes both! Need to repeat the quest objective in a very unnatural way. For example, when the usual quest duo finds the next piece of information and where to go next, either from overhearing, seeing or reading something.
The more natural responses (here shortened and simplied) to move on would be something like: "Seems we need to go to the local temple for more information." "Indeed. Let's go/I'll see you there".
But what we usually get is "Did I hear that right, we need to go to Temple of Bla in Blaville?" "Yes, the information we need seems to be in Temple of Bla in Blaville." "Ok. I will meet you in Temple of Bla in Blaville."

People don't talk like this!

People don't talk like that but the latter is far more accessible

I can understand a location name being mentioned once in a dialogue, but I don't see the need for repeating it several times within not even a minute.

Fair. It does get excessive

GatheredMyst · April 2025

Juomuuri wrote: »

This trend of NPCs repeating quest objectives three times in one minute or less is driving me nuts. It's the worst part about the newer dialogue for me, and this makes me think if they're aiming to please zoomers with TikTok brainrot...

There was an earlier post stating that they might do it because people run into a room and are clicking on every object/bookcase/bag/vase/urn/etc, and they miss what's happening in front of them.

But here's the thing: There's a fix for that too. If the designers have a moment like this, clear the room. If there's going to be some giant plot thing that's going to happen, don't have any objects present for a bit. Make it so there's nothing to click. No distractions. Nothing else but the moment to play out.

Then it's borderline impossible to miss, and you don't have to repeat yourself.

Option B would be to have an optional dialogue selection where you ask the NPC "What happened?", and they can tell you. For everyone else who was paying attention, they don't need to have the dialogue repeat itself ad nauseam.

Hapexamendios · April 2025

My feelings were simply this: I didn't really feel engaged by the quest and the wrong guild master met his demise imo.

Dame_Durant · April 2025

I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to writing in MMOs, that said, I've played TES since Daggerfall and uh, yeah. I won't parrot too much of what's been said already but it could've been more expertly executed and better delivered.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · April 2025

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Yeah the dialogue writing for this prologue was just especially terrible. It feels like AI was used somehow and there was little to no review on the script. Even the player response options had cheesy writing.

"Let's head to the Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm." My guy, we are in Shornhelm; we are underground, in the Mages' Guild, in Shornhelm. You don't need to specify "in Shornhelm" while we are in Shornhelm. "Let's head to the Fighter's Guild topside" would be much more suitable.

You know what? Sure! Let's just rename the Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm the "Fighter's Guild in Shornhelm".

This is not a new thing in ESO's writing, though, and it's very common, much to my chagrin. The Vestige or the npc, or sometimes both! Need to repeat the quest objective in a very unnatural way. For example, when the usual quest duo finds the next piece of information and where to go next, either from overhearing, seeing or reading something.
The more natural responses (here shortened and simplied) to move on would be something like: "Seems we need to go to the local temple for more information." "Indeed. Let's go/I'll see you there".
But what we usually get is "Did I hear that right, we need to go to Temple of Bla in Blaville?" "Yes, the information we need seems to be in Temple of Bla in Blaville." "Ok. I will meet you in Temple of Bla in Blaville."

People don't talk like this!

People don't talk like that but the latter is far more accessible

There's nothing accessible about repeating the same line over and over again within the same discussion, even less so when the quest objective says so and puts a marker on your map where to go. People don't complain about other games not being "accessible" because they don't repeat objectives in quests repeatedly. On the contrary, it's more a complaint when dialogue is unnatural and robotic.
This is not some accessibility thing, this is just weird and bad writing, same as how we are forced to ask a daedric prince who he is, despite having met him like 5 times before. Or how argonians ask what a Hist is or bosmer who Y'ffre is. Having the option to ask is nice, but it's almost never an option, it's our only dialogue choice.

magnusthorek · April 2025

Not going to pretend I remember everything from main quest, but if I'm allowed to express my opinion without having my comment sledgehammered (if you know what I mean), this is one of the reasons I don't consider ESO an AAA game any more.

An AA, perhaps? Pun not intended (hehe)

LootAllTheStuff · April 2025

I agree with the comments regarding Skordo. The only way his character in the prologue would have made sense to me would have been if he'd actually been a skin-stealer (see Shadowfen quests). Which, of course, we didn't really get - and it's weird that

The harvester stealing people's appearance didn't kill the originals

As far as the player dialogue options, like a previous poster I pretty much never used them as they all felt rather vapid. As an example, one "angry" response had you call someone a twit. There are far better alternatives to that within the existing game dialogue (eg 'fetcher'). If this is going to be the standard of dialogue options going forward, all I can say is that I am not looking forward to that.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · April 2025

Syldras wrote: »

I can understand a location name being mentioned once in a dialogue, but I don't see the need for repeating it several times within not even a minute.

Agree. If someone isn’t paying attention to the dialogue, it doesn’t matter if the place is name dropped one time or one hundred times, they still aren’t going to pay attention. What it does do is annoy those of us who do pay attention and kick out any semblance of immersion.

NoticeMeArkay · April 2025

whitecrow wrote: »

I have noticed a cartoonish quality to NPCs for at least a couple years now. The druids in High Isle and Galen were particularly egregious. And Azzandar... ugh.

The druids of Galen: We've moved to this little island and dwelled savely for hundreds of years because we're so wise and foresighted!
Also the druids of Galen: We tied our entire alarm system to this one enchanted torch which we left entirely unprotected and...oh ***. Guess it's gone?

For me, the only positive thing about that year was that I got to see the babbling broccoli-head die.
Also what made them decide that Quen would be capable of doing "This".

Grega · April 2025

Tbh this is the first time I’ve seen a quest where the repetitive questioning and explanation over and over made me feel like the writers think I am slow in the head and I need to be talked to like that.

Syldras · April 2025

As I see Azandar being mentioned: I think he's awesome in the German translation. Compared to what I read on UESP, they've toned it down to a believable level (probably because the localisation team knew that expectations and humour are different in Germany - most people here are a bit more serious in comparison and don't like exaggerations). He's still a scholar, slightly out-of-touch and overly complicated (I can relate) probably due to his long stay in Apocrypha (and I also see some autism traits: not relating much to other people, not being very social, sensory oversensitivity - maybe it's just a conincidence, maybe not; in case you had that in mind, ZOS, thank you for just writing him like that, as a ordinary part of a world where all kinds of characters exist, and not doing it in-your-face and introducing him as the "first autistic companion!!!") - but (that was a long interjection - I said I could relate) he doesn't seem like a unrealistic cliché. He's just the slightly scatterbrained old academic; I've come across several professors like him during my studies. His speech isn't over the top weird, he just uses scholarly terms and a slightly dated language, due to his age. Not sure if there are big language differences across the generations in English, but in German it really works well. Anyway, I like slightly confused but highly educated Grandpa

And I'm somehow wondering if most people would like the way they've written him in German more than the original texts - then maybe ZOS should check back with the localisation team, as they definitely know how to write an amusing, unique and still believable character.

emilyhyoyeon · April 2025

Syldras wrote: »

As I see Azandar being mentioned: I think he's awesome in the German translation. Compared to what I read on UESP, they've toned it down to a believable level (probably because the localisation team knew that expectations and humour are different in Germany - most people here are a bit more serious in comparison and don't like exaggerations). He's still a scholar, slightly out-of-touch and overly complicated (I can relate) probably due to his long stay in Apocrypha (and I also see some autism traits: not relating much to other people, not being very social, sensory oversensitivity - maybe it's just a conincidence, maybe not; in case you had that in mind, ZOS, thank you for just writing him like that, as a ordinary part of a world where all kinds of characters exist, and not doing it in-your-face and introducing him as the "first autistic companion!!!") - but (that was a long interjection - I said I could relate) he doesn't seem like a unrealistic cliché. He's just the slightly scatterbrained old academic; I've come across several professors like him during my studies. His speech isn't over the top weird, he just uses scholarly terms and a slightly dated language, due to his age. Not sure if there are big language differences across the generations in English, but in German it really works well. Anyway, I like slightly confused but highly educated Grandpa And I'm somehow wondering if most people would like the way they've written him in German more than the original texts - then maybe ZOS should check back with the localisation team, as they definitely know how to write an amusing, unique and still believable character.

I also play the German localization and also have always loved Azandar. I was really skeptical about him when he was described (by Rich Lambert IIRC) on stream during the Necrom year; I thought I wouldn't really care for him at all. I did his quests for the content experience and was pleasantly surprised. I've kept him around since, and stick to him, Zerith-var or Mirri. He definitely feels like a real person to me as well and in fact reminds me of the boss whom I've had the past year--a quirky academic in his 80s.

Ilsabet · April 2025

Now I haven't formally studied game design, but it's pretty clear that there are certain quest design principles in use that make quest dialogue seem really really formulaic when you see them in action enough. Being offered a reward at the end of every request for help is a particular pet peeve of mine. But the reiteration of quest objectives is also a really obvious technique, which is where you get people saying over and over that we need to go to THIS SPECIFIC PLACE to DO THIS THING, and every person you talk to just to see what they'll say will also point you in the direction of what you're supposed to do next. If it's done subtly it doesn't stick out as much, but more often that's where we feel like we're being hit over the head as if we're toddlers with the attention span of goldfish. But it's really just the formula that ZOS has decided to use to hand-hold its players, so in that regard I can't fault the writers too much for following the rules. (Even if I myself would strongly prefer more natural conversational writing.)

As for the prologue, the writing was all over the place. I guess I'll spoiler-mark my specific comments.

I had to snicker at Jersey Skordo, and I wondered if the flanderization stick had hit him too with the way he was obsessed with punching people. Being called "pal" every two minutes also got pretty old. But hey, he was still our buddy Skordo, and I was happy to see him again. (Along with Gabrielle, and Azah, and even Vanus.)

The early emphasis on Merric being seen in three different places when he couldn't possibly have been in all three at the same time was weird, especially since we're only meant to go to one place and it's conveniently the place where he actually was. I immediately suspected some kind of doppelganger action, and in retrospect it's kind of weird not to use that when there is shapechanging in the plot.

The conversation with the magister was extremely confusing, and it wasn't until the very end that I realized there was supposed to be some kind of shapechanger involved. And that the coach to Shornhelm thing was a quest objective indicator. I suspect the writer was trying to pack the context clues into one or two lines of dialogue and it just got twisted around itself.

Everyone involved with the Stirk meeting seemed to have forgotten that the alliance leaders did absolutely nothing to solve the Planemeld crisis except agree not to get in the way of the Fighters and Mages Guilds doing the actual work. The Pact representative even said something about Jorunn setting aside hostilities to defeat the Worm Cult, and I was like "he did what now, lady?" I guess the post-Planemeld propaganda game was strong and everybody's got their rose-colored memory goggles on.

Oh someone mentioned repetitive dialogue where multiple people say pretty much the same thing, and that was rampant if you talk to everybody in between quest steps at the Stirk meeting. Okay so there are like six people to write offhand comments for, but you can mix it up a little more.

I actually didn't mind the special dialogue options as much as some people. I thought the "red" (aggressive?) choices were often unnecessarily jerkish, although calling Vanus Galerion a twit will be fun the same way pushing Narsis Dren into a well is fun.

One thing I have some trepidation about is that I'll want to see the outcome of the various dialogue choices before I commit to one of them, and that's harder when the only save-scumming is to restart the quest.

*cries in Dragon Age and BG3*

So yeah there's a lot of polishing that could have been done, and I wish we could get away from being hand-held so hard, especially in complete disregard of our previous quest completion (I don't need to be told who Gabrielle Benele and Vanus Galerion are, thanks). I'm mostly choosing to appreciate the nostalgia trip for what it is and look forward to hopefully better storytelling and character writing in the Solstice story.

For what it's worth, like GatheredMyst mentioned earlier, I accepted the first quest for the new content on PTS and Skordo was immediately way toned down from his Jersey variant and more like his old self. I have to believe that they recorded this content after getting feedback on the prologue, because it's night and day. It gives me a lot of hope for what's to come, but also kind of makes me wonder where Jersey Skordo even came from.

Syldras · April 2025

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I also play the German localization and also have always loved Azandar. I was really skeptical about him when he was described (by Rich Lambert IIRC) on stream during the Necrom year; I thought I wouldn't really care for him at all. I did his quests for the content experience and was pleasantly surprised. I've kept him around since, and stick to him, Zerith-var or Mirri. He definitely feels like a real person to me as well and in fact reminds me of the boss whom I've had the past year--a quirky academic in his 80s.

Yes, the way he was described in the stream made me very sceptical as well (and slightly annoyed, because I always wanted just a "normal" scholar companion and it looked like now we'd get a scholar, but only a very weird one). I think they said he was supposed to be a "mix between Dumbledore and Willy Wonka" or something like that?! Anyway, it didn't sound appealing to me at all. But luckily, at least in the German translation, I wouldn't say that description fits him. He's my favorite companion (and #2 would be Zerith, also I also really like Mirri and Isobel). Indeed he reminds me a lot of some professors I had, some older friends (age range between about 50 and 80), and the more I think about it, even a bit, from the style of speech, of my father who was rather old when I was born and would be 84 now.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · April 2025

Ilsabet wrote: »

Everyone involved with the Stirk meeting seemed to have forgotten that the alliance leaders did absolutely nothing to solve the Planemeld crisis except agree not to get in the way of the Fighters and Mages Guilds doing the actual work. The Pact representative even said something about Jorunn setting aside hostilities to defeat the Worm Cult, and I was like "he did what now, lady?" I guess the post-Planemeld propaganda game was strong and everybody's got their rose-colored memory goggles on.

That isn’t entirely true

they apparently did at least a little off-screen recruiting among the civilian population, there’s a Dunmer shopkeeper (this guy) who spells out that Almalexia convinced him to come. And most of the other shopkeepers you can recognize from other places in Tamriel, so I don’t believe it’s a stretch to say the other Alliance higher-ups did similarly.

I acknowledge it’s not much compared to the Guilds’ efforts, but it’s enough they can technically count themselves to have helped.

Ilsabet · April 2025

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

Everyone involved with the Stirk meeting seemed to have forgotten that the alliance leaders did absolutely nothing to solve the Planemeld crisis except agree not to get in the way of the Fighters and Mages Guilds doing the actual work. The Pact representative even said something about Jorunn setting aside hostilities to defeat the Worm Cult, and I was like "he did what now, lady?" I guess the post-Planemeld propaganda game was strong and everybody's got their rose-colored memory goggles on.

That isn’t entirely true
they apparently did at least a little off-screen recruiting among the civilian population, there’s a Dunmer shopkeeper (this guy) who spells out that Almalexia convinced him to come. And most of the other shopkeepers you can recognize from other places in Tamriel, so I don’t believe it’s a stretch to say the other Alliance higher-ups did similarly.

I acknowledge it’s not much compared to the Guilds’ efforts, but it’s enough they can technically count themselves to have helped.

A bit of a stretch, but technically correct is the best kind of correct, so I guess we'll have to let it slide.