Is Arcanist Beam too powerful?

MurkyWetWolf198 · April 15

There’s a huge discussion around powercreep, and it seems that the most extreme builds are revolving around Fatecarver. Is that a problem?

Soarora · April 15

It did not need a damage buff or a cost increase. It’s weak single-target compared to other classes but vastly outcompetes in AoE, which is… most fights. Either every class needs an AoE component to a spammable or fatecarver’s AoE potential needs nerfed.

MurkyWetWolf198 · April 15

Is it too strong on its own, or because of the buffs it can receive from subclassing?

Soarora · April 15

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Is it too strong on its own, or because of the buffs it can receive from subclassing?

On its own it’s too strong in AoE, which is why other classes can’t keep up. Subclassing made it stronger.

sarahthes · April 15

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Is it too strong on its own, or because of the buffs it can receive from subclassing?

The buffs exacerbate an existing issue.

Ezhh · April 15

You only needed to look at ESO logs or the rosters in various trial Discord servers to know beam is a standout skill. Subclassing will buff it. Then it gets an independent damage buff on top of that? For cleave, which is hugely important in PvE, nothing can compete.

Of course it's too powerful.

MurkyWetWolf198 · April 15

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

sarahthes · April 15

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

Ezhh · April 15

sarahthes wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

I remember asking myself the same thing way back when I still had hope that things would improve again. And I ran into the same answer. You can't resolve the issue without breaking arcanist or fundamentally changing how other classes work to also give them ranged cleave with a similar power budget and dps output.

They have now "solved" the issue by allowing every class to use beam and, unless something changes, this is it. Those of us who want to DD at a high level but dislike this gameplay are out of options.

Soarora · April 15

sarahthes wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

My thoughts are maybe something like:
A) Furthest and closest enemies take full damage, everything else takes less damage.

B ) The main target (whatever’s used with the aim assist) takes full damage, everything else takes less damage.

C) Separate the beam into damage zones where the further away something is from the center (brightest part of the beam/longways), the less damage it takes.

MurkyWetWolf198 · April 15

What would buffing other class’s AoE spammables look like?

Ezhh · April 15

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What would buffing other class’s AoE spammables look like?

What AoE spammables? Not all classes even have one to begin with.

FoJul · April 15

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What would buffing other class’s AoE spammables look like?

Jabs does the same damage to all targets it hits now I guess lol.

Arcanist beam is just levels ahead of pretty much anything else.

MurkyWetWolf198 · April 15

Thanks for the votes yall, this question is clearly something a lot of people have thoughts on. More than other issues by a ton

katorga · April 16

sarahthes wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

Lightning staff nerf ....all ticks except the last are single target.

Wereswan · April 16

Nearly double the damage of the various flavors of Scorch with three crux spent, and much easier to apply.

FoJul · April 16

katorga wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

Lightning staff nerf ....all ticks except the last are single target.

Woah buddy, IDK about that one chief. Your saying nerf the single target aspect? I'm sorry but I cannot get behind that. I've already had a crash out when they changed Lightning/Flame staff behavior, and receiving a nerf after all that, seems excessive.

This will also hurt other ranged classes that don't rely on beam. Bad bad bad idea.

Malyore · April 16

I don't care if it is "too powerful" or not, so long as it's not being used against me.

Chibicosmos · April 16

With arc, they need to nerf the damage and keep the increase cost if the cap is at 6 targets.
Otherwise can decrease the cap to single target and leave the rest.

tomofhyrule · April 16

I don’t think Fatecarver alone is the issue. It is OP, obviously, but a lot of people aren’t talking about the other part.

An AoE spammable that:

heals the user on hit
snares
builds Crux
gives the enemy a unique damage taken debuff

followed by an AoE beam that:

does high damage
does more damage per Crux
does extra damage with active Scholarship
gives the user a damage shield

There’s a lot of the Arcanist’s kit (and technically just the Herald of the Tome line) that is so much more versatile.

Also if you look at the logs, it’s actually possible to do a raw parse even higher than Arcanist - I think a Corpseburster Necro is cracked and we had one outparse all Arcanists in our DB recently. But Arcanist gives A-tier power with S-tier ease-of-use, while other classes are a lot less user-friendly.

katorga · April 16

FoJul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

What kind of adjustments would you want to see?

I can't think of a way to adjust it and still make it usable.

Lightning staff nerf ....all ticks except the last are single target.

Woah buddy, IDK about that one chief. Your saying nerf the single target aspect? I'm sorry but I cannot get behind that. I've already had a crash out when they changed Lightning/Flame staff behavior, and receiving a nerf after all that, seems excessive.

This will also hurt other ranged classes that don't rely on beam. Bad bad bad idea.

All dps classes will rely on beam after this patch, sadly.

But that was how they nerfed lightning heavies when they decided they were too powerful. Every tick used to be AOE, now only the last one is. ZOS "could" do the same thing to fatecarver, only the last second or two of the channel is aoe.

Reality is as the parsing stands today, endgame DPS will be three classes NB, Arc, Necro because they each contain the one of the three required subclasses.

BananaBender · April 16

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I don’t think Fatecarver alone is the issue. It is OP, obviously, but a lot of people aren’t talking about the other part.

An AoE spammable that:
heals the user on hit

snares

builds Crux

gives the enemy a unique damage taken debuff

followed by an AoE beam that:
does high damage

does more damage per Crux

does extra damage with active Scholarship

gives the user a damage shield

There’s a lot of the Arcanist’s kit (and technically just the Herald of the Tome line) that is so much more versatile.

Also if you look at the logs, it’s actually possible to do a raw parse even higher than Arcanist - I think a Corpseburster Necro is cracked and we had one outparse all Arcanists in our DB recently. But Arcanist gives A-tier power with S-tier ease-of-use, while other classes are a lot less user-friendly.

Right now on live the class balance was in an okay spot. Necro and DK could keep up and surpass Arcanist in many scenarios, though Arcanist is much easier and safer to play. On PTS it's not even close. Arcanist can utilize the buffs from other skill lines by far the best, which completely offsets this previous balance. On top of that Azureblight got nerfed heavily, which was the only reason other classes were even close to Arcanist in AoE fights. Now Arcanist does the highest single target damage and is the only class capable of serious AoE damage.

sarahthes · April 16

BananaBender wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I don’t think Fatecarver alone is the issue. It is OP, obviously, but a lot of people aren’t talking about the other part.

An AoE spammable that:
heals the user on hit

snares

builds Crux

gives the enemy a unique damage taken debuff

followed by an AoE beam that:
does high damage

does more damage per Crux

does extra damage with active Scholarship

gives the user a damage shield

There’s a lot of the Arcanist’s kit (and technically just the Herald of the Tome line) that is so much more versatile.

Also if you look at the logs, it’s actually possible to do a raw parse even higher than Arcanist - I think a Corpseburster Necro is cracked and we had one outparse all Arcanists in our DB recently. But Arcanist gives A-tier power with S-tier ease-of-use, while other classes are a lot less user-friendly.

Right now on live the class balance was in an okay spot. Necro and DK could keep up and surpass Arcanist in many scenarios, though Arcanist is much easier and safer to play. On PTS it's not even close. Arcanist can utilize the buffs from other skill lines by far the best, which completely offsets this previous balance. On top of that Azureblight got nerfed heavily, which was the only reason other classes were even close to Arcanist in AoE fights. Now Arcanist does the highest single target damage and is the only class capable of serious AoE damage.

Fatecarver is the new azureblight.

ADarklore · April 16

I wonder how many people voting yes actually PLAY an Arcanist, or who are trying to get it nerfed because they don't like it??

sarahthes · April 17

ADarklore wrote: »

I wonder how many people voting yes actually PLAY an Arcanist, or who are trying to get it nerfed because they don't like it??

I play arcanist (as well as other classes). I have trifectas on arcanist (as well as other classes). I've been playing that one arc build while testing the new trial on pts.

I stand by what I said. Arc beam is a little too OP right now.

gc0018 · April 17

You will know the answer once subclass come to live, guess which skill line will be a must in PVE DPS?

Personally, I don't want it to get nerf, because I really enjoy having Arcanist as a secret cheat to quickly farm monster sets for my other characters.

Wereswan · April 17

ADarklore wrote: »

I wonder how many people voting yes actually PLAY an Arcanist, or who are trying to get it nerfed because they don't like it??

I have one of each magicka and stamina DPS class, and nothing else melts things as fast as the Arcanists. It's a pretty clear outlier.

kind_hero · April 17

Not sure... I have recently leveled an arcanist, after playing nb and sorc for 10 years. To me this class was so fresh and well designed in terms of fun that you can have with it. Arcanist feels seamless compared to other classes. Probably the beam is too strong, but this made the class feel like an reward. It reminded me of the single player Elder Scrolls game when after starting slow and weak, you end up to be god-like.
Anyway, it was fun while it lasted. After the new update everything will be nerfed to make room for multi classing.

Renato90085 · April 17

ADarklore wrote: »

I wonder how many people voting yes actually PLAY an Arcanist, or who are trying to get it nerfed because they don't like it??

Most pve endgame players will have one ,i use my arc do vrghm or vlchm,and it is not difficult to find, because they and they beam are this 2 year pay to win class

lPeacekeeperl · April 17

Arc beam is OP on PTS mostly thank to the bufs from subclasses, and i already mentioned in other topics - passives should become more locked to active skills.

Make "Rapid rot" not "flat +15% dot DMG" but "+3% per necro skill on a bar" and problem solved. In multiclass you wont have too much necro skills (especialy in one-bar builds) and in full-necro class you will have same or even stronger benefit

And same logic should be populated to most passives.
Flat 6%spell, weapon and armor or 10% mana and stamina, they can be too OP if you stack them one on the another

I'm sure if not buff from necro rapid rot, beam wold be on pare with templar jabs

necro_the_crafter · April 17

id deserves damage drop-off over range. closest targets takes full damage (100%), mid range 3/4 of damage (75%), long range 1/2 of damage (50%). Its still would be the best AoE in the game tho, but will require some positioning skill to maximise its potentioal.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Is Arcanist Beam too powerful?

Is Arcanist Beam too powerful? 227 votes