Overland Content Feedback Thread

disky · March 16

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players come and go for a lot of reasons. This is just how MMOs work. A game doesn't fail because some players leave, as long as there are also new players joining.

We don't know why every player left and I very seriously doubt they all went just because overland was too easy. Most of the time when a player moves on it's because of burnout from doing the same thing for a long time. Just changing one thing the player doesn't like won't bring them back because the burnout is still there.

I seriously doubt that anything that is done to increase overland difficulty will result in a big influx of returning players.

"changing one thing" is pretty reductive. I'm sure there are plenty of people, and I include myself among them, who consider overland to be the actual TES experience that this game provides. It's the kind of content that a lot of people who have played TES games in the past expect when they come to this game. I have no doubt that many TES fans who turned up the difficulty in older games have felt that ESO's insignificant overland challenge isn't enough to keep them engaged, and so they leave unsatisfied. Even if some of them don't return, I'm betting that if word gets out that the game might actually be fun for them again, a lot of them could come back. MMOs are funny like that, they tend to stay in the back of an ex-player's mind, even years after they've stopped playing. There are definitely those who would be drawn back with some good news.

And we also have to consider prospective players who might otherwise leave if their interests aren't accounted for.

I'm just saying that their experiment to increase overland difficulty has led to the belief that this is going to result in a huge amount of players coming back to the game, or coming in as new players. But I don't believe that will happen.

For one, if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty.
But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players. Way more than they would gain, in my opinion.

That is why I don't believe that their experiment to increase general overland difficulty is going to be the great change that some may be expecting.

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

"if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty."

I don't expect the difficulty to increase to anything like a veteran dungeon level, but I do expect the game to provide an adequate level of resistance beyond the sensation of a light breeze wafting across my cheek. I think you're setting your expectations a little too high. Anyway, in an ideal world we'll be able to choose.

"But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players."

Assuming that it's going to be mandatory, which I don't think there is any reason to do. Even you have argued against that perspective, and not very long ago.

SilverBride · March 16

disky wrote: »

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

One of the biggest arguments that's been presented for increasing overland difficulty is that a lot of former players would return and a lot of new players would come. But I don't see that happening for reasons I've already given.

flaxegg · March 16

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players come and go for a lot of reasons. This is just how MMOs work. A game doesn't fail because some players leave, as long as there are also new players joining.

We don't know why every player left and I very seriously doubt they all went just because overland was too easy. Most of the time when a player moves on it's because of burnout from doing the same thing for a long time. Just changing one thing the player doesn't like won't bring them back because the burnout is still there.

I seriously doubt that anything that is done to increase overland difficulty will result in a big influx of returning players.

"changing one thing" is pretty reductive. I'm sure there are plenty of people, and I include myself among them, who consider overland to be the actual TES experience that this game provides. It's the kind of content that a lot of people who have played TES games in the past expect when they come to this game. I have no doubt that many TES fans who turned up the difficulty in older games have felt that ESO's insignificant overland challenge isn't enough to keep them engaged, and so they leave unsatisfied. Even if some of them don't return, I'm betting that if word gets out that the game might actually be fun for them again, a lot of them could come back. MMOs are funny like that, they tend to stay in the back of an ex-player's mind, even years after they've stopped playing. There are definitely those who would be drawn back with some good news.

And we also have to consider prospective players who might otherwise leave if their interests aren't accounted for.

I'm just saying that their experiment to increase overland difficulty has led to the belief that this is going to result in a huge amount of players coming back to the game, or coming in as new players. But I don't believe that will happen.

For one, if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty.
But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players. Way more than they would gain, in my opinion.

That is why I don't believe that their experiment to increase general overland difficulty is going to be the great change that some may be expecting.

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

"if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty."

I don't expect the difficulty to increase to anything like a veteran dungeon level, but I do expect the game to provide an adequate level of resistance beyond the sensation of a light breeze wafting across my cheek. I think you're setting your expectations a little too high. Anyway, in an ideal world we'll be able to choose.

"But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players."

Assuming that it's going to be mandatory, which I don't think there is any reason to do. Even you have argued against that perspective, and not very long ago.

I actually came back in part because I heard they were planning on increasing overland difficulty haha. If it's good, I might stay, and if not, I'll probably lose interest and go play some other game again tbh. That being said I agree: they really should not make the difficulty increase mandatory (esp. if it's significant). The fact that, for a dead-easy base game world boss, I can announce in zone that I'm about to kill it and I don't need help, but if anyone does then they're welcome to come tag along, and I almost always get a handful of people, says a lot about how a mandatory difficulty increase might negatively affect some players.

disky · March 17

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

One of the biggest arguments that's been presented for increasing overland difficulty is that a lot of former players would return and a lot of new players would come. But I don't see that happening for reasons I've already given.

I do believe it will absolutely encourage people to return to the game, maybe even a lot of them, just not an incredibly huge, historic return. I also think it's important to understand that it will help to retain those players which have been asking for this for ages and still play, like myself, and new players looking for the kind of experience TES has traditionally provided, who also want a challenge. It's not only about bringing back the olds.

SilverBride · March 17

It may bring in some former and new players, at least until they hear feedback about the change, which may or may not be good. We just don't know.

I'm not even going to speculate what it may be. All I can do is hope it doesn't ruin the relaxed questing experience many of us love and enjoy.

DeathStalker · March 17

flaxegg wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players come and go for a lot of reasons. This is just how MMOs work. A game doesn't fail because some players leave, as long as there are also new players joining.

We don't know why every player left and I very seriously doubt they all went just because overland was too easy. Most of the time when a player moves on it's because of burnout from doing the same thing for a long time. Just changing one thing the player doesn't like won't bring them back because the burnout is still there.

I seriously doubt that anything that is done to increase overland difficulty will result in a big influx of returning players.

"changing one thing" is pretty reductive. I'm sure there are plenty of people, and I include myself among them, who consider overland to be the actual TES experience that this game provides. It's the kind of content that a lot of people who have played TES games in the past expect when they come to this game. I have no doubt that many TES fans who turned up the difficulty in older games have felt that ESO's insignificant overland challenge isn't enough to keep them engaged, and so they leave unsatisfied. Even if some of them don't return, I'm betting that if word gets out that the game might actually be fun for them again, a lot of them could come back. MMOs are funny like that, they tend to stay in the back of an ex-player's mind, even years after they've stopped playing. There are definitely those who would be drawn back with some good news.

And we also have to consider prospective players who might otherwise leave if their interests aren't accounted for.

I'm just saying that their experiment to increase overland difficulty has led to the belief that this is going to result in a huge amount of players coming back to the game, or coming in as new players. But I don't believe that will happen.

For one, if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty.
But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players. Way more than they would gain, in my opinion.

That is why I don't believe that their experiment to increase general overland difficulty is going to be the great change that some may be expecting.

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

"if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty."

I don't expect the difficulty to increase to anything like a veteran dungeon level, but I do expect the game to provide an adequate level of resistance beyond the sensation of a light breeze wafting across my cheek. I think you're setting your expectations a little too high. Anyway, in an ideal world we'll be able to choose.

"But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players."

Assuming that it's going to be mandatory, which I don't think there is any reason to do. Even you have argued against that perspective, and not very long ago.

I actually came back in part because I heard they were planning on increasing overland difficulty haha. If it's good, I might stay, and if not, I'll probably lose interest and go play some other game again tbh.

I stopped playing completely when they said they were planning on increasing overland difficulty. If they do increase it, even though I've played off and on since beta and spent thousands of dollars on this game, it will be my time to walk away and I will most likely not play anymore at all.

flaxegg · March 17

DeathStalker wrote: »

flaxegg wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players come and go for a lot of reasons. This is just how MMOs work. A game doesn't fail because some players leave, as long as there are also new players joining.

We don't know why every player left and I very seriously doubt they all went just because overland was too easy. Most of the time when a player moves on it's because of burnout from doing the same thing for a long time. Just changing one thing the player doesn't like won't bring them back because the burnout is still there.

I seriously doubt that anything that is done to increase overland difficulty will result in a big influx of returning players.

"changing one thing" is pretty reductive. I'm sure there are plenty of people, and I include myself among them, who consider overland to be the actual TES experience that this game provides. It's the kind of content that a lot of people who have played TES games in the past expect when they come to this game. I have no doubt that many TES fans who turned up the difficulty in older games have felt that ESO's insignificant overland challenge isn't enough to keep them engaged, and so they leave unsatisfied. Even if some of them don't return, I'm betting that if word gets out that the game might actually be fun for them again, a lot of them could come back. MMOs are funny like that, they tend to stay in the back of an ex-player's mind, even years after they've stopped playing. There are definitely those who would be drawn back with some good news.

And we also have to consider prospective players who might otherwise leave if their interests aren't accounted for.

I'm just saying that their experiment to increase overland difficulty has led to the belief that this is going to result in a huge amount of players coming back to the game, or coming in as new players. But I don't believe that will happen.

For one, if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty.
But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players. Way more than they would gain, in my opinion.

That is why I don't believe that their experiment to increase general overland difficulty is going to be the great change that some may be expecting.

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

"if they don't increase the difficulty a LOT it's not going to satisfy those that want more difficulty."

I don't expect the difficulty to increase to anything like a veteran dungeon level, but I do expect the game to provide an adequate level of resistance beyond the sensation of a light breeze wafting across my cheek. I think you're setting your expectations a little too high. Anyway, in an ideal world we'll be able to choose.

"But if they do increase the difficulty a LOT they will lose a LOT of players."

Assuming that it's going to be mandatory, which I don't think there is any reason to do. Even you have argued against that perspective, and not very long ago.

I actually came back in part because I heard they were planning on increasing overland difficulty haha. If it's good, I might stay, and if not, I'll probably lose interest and go play some other game again tbh.

I stopped playing completely when they said they were planning on increasing overland difficulty. If they do increase it, even though I've played off and on since beta and spent thousands of dollars on this game, it will be my time to walk away and I will most likely not play anymore at all.

Aw, well I hope they make it optional then, like I mentioned before. I know a lot of people struggle with the difficulty already as it is or for other reasons want things to stay the same.

Muizer · March 17

I'm hoping for something, but I'm not too optimistic. About 10 years of ESO tells us that ZOS' approach to difficult content is to keep it localized (world bosses, incursions) or instanced (dungeons, arenas, trials). If either of those worked we would not be having this conversation. And yet I fear that's what we're going to get in one form or another...... again.

flaxegg · March 17

Muizer wrote: »

I'm hoping for something, but I'm not too optimistic. About 10 years of ESO tells us that ZOS' approach to difficult content is to keep it localized (world bosses, incursions) or instanced (dungeons, arenas, trials). If either of those worked we would not be having this conversation. And yet I fear that's what we're going to get in one form or another...... again.

I agree, and even that content is soloable with varying degrees of difficulty. I'm not even a hardcore or highly skilled player (mostly I think it's just that I've been playing off and on for years and years because I pretty much half ass everything otherwise), and I rarely run into anything overland that I'm like, "yeah, maybe I should get a group for this." I agree though, I can't imagine it'll wind up being anything too extreme, just judging from history.

Inyhel · March 17

I don't think overland content should be made more difficult 'cause it will make it harder for newer and solo players.
If people want a challenge there's PVP and plenty of dungeons and trials specifically for that reason.

flaxegg · March 17

Inyhel wrote: »

I don't think overland content should be made more difficult 'cause it will make it harder for newer and solo players.
If people want a challenge there's PVP and plenty of dungeons and trials specifically for that reason.

I think it should be optional, but as a solo player, I do want overland content to be harder, and I don't want to be forced into PvP (which I don't mind but it's different from the Elder Scrolls-y feeling of overland exploration) or dungeons (which I just hate) to find engaging content. As it is now, exploration and questing are (in my opinion) boring and tedious rather than fun and engaging. I don't think content should be so difficult that its not soloable (I don't like the original EverQuest partly for this reason), but I think world bosses, etc., which in many games are either exceptionally difficult to solo or require more than one player, could be an exception to this (base game ones, particularly, are now barely even a threat). But again, some sort of option to this is what I would be looking for, as many players simply can't cope (for various reasons) with a higher difficult than we currently have.

Jestir · March 19

Combat is the number 1 complaint about the game

They have said they plan to improve animations and sounds to be more impactful/weighty to help with that

Making it so that the content players first engage with, that most people don't even reach the point of being able try something else like a group dungeon, isn't "child's first rpg" level difficulty is the obvious other thing that needs fixed

Keeping current players is important and so is getting players who stopped back but the game desperately needs to attract new players and keep them on most of all, the game can't keep going with out new players buying in and fixing the most basic of things related to combat is a huge part of that

colossalvoids · March 19

Inyhel wrote: »

I don't think overland content should be made more difficult 'cause it will make it harder for newer and solo players.

That's the whole point of it, the optional way to make those players being able to enjoy their time. Vets should take a second sit with this one imo, or have another, more severe option at that. Not being able to get friends to play ESO because the game is a joke is one of the most common things you'd read on the web. Some of us endured, many didn't.

Apollosipod · March 23

colossalvoids wrote: »

Inyhel wrote: »

I don't think overland content should be made more difficult 'cause it will make it harder for newer and solo players.

That's the whole point of it, the optional way to make those players being able to enjoy their time. Vets should take a second sit with this one imo, or have another, more severe option at that. Not being able to get friends to play ESO because the game is a joke is one of the most common things you'd read on the web. Some of us endured, many didn't.

Totally agreed. I tried to get several friends into the game who played for a bit and all left complaining about the lack of difficulty. More than one even felt that they weren't engaged with the story because they were so bored going from one fetch item to another, carving through everything in between. It's so easy and unengaging that you just zone out.

At least give us the option to make it harder so those that enjoy the lack of challenge AND players who want it can be engaged with the game

tokeinskyblu · March 24

I hear that they are putting in vet overland soon or something?

Any eta on it?

Me and the Mrs keen as to get back into ESO especially with this sort of update.

colossalvoids · March 24

tokeinskyblu wrote: »

I hear that they are putting in vet overland soon or something?

Any eta on it?

Me and the Mrs keen as to get back into ESO especially with this sort of update.

We don't yet know anything but "something" would be announced in April.

Arrodisia · March 24

Another vet here since day 1. I, absolutely, love the game the way it is, minus the actual game performance sometimes. I like having these nice easy flowing areas to play in (overland) especially while getting surveys and picking pretty flowers. Yet I also like all of this other wonderful vet content trials, arenas, dungeons, PvP,... to play, when I want a challenge. I'm already counting the days until my next vacation.

I'm happy with anything that is optional. All players should have what they want. Making it with a toggle or something similar is a good way to make sure both sides get their slice of ESO cake. The devs have been working hard to put some new features and QoL in the game and we're potentially going to like some, if not all of it. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear about what's in store for ESO in April during their live stream.

Have fun in game all.

spartaxoxo · April 1

Just a little over a week now. It's going to be Legen...wait for it....

mocap · April 1

For me, it will either be the end of ESO or a new life in this game. April 17 (or whenever PTS is there...) will make it clear.

TaSheen · April 1

mocap wrote: »

For me, it will either be the end of ESO or a new life in this game. April 17 (or whenever PTS is there...) will make it clear.

Same for me - from the opposite of your viewpoint though.

Franchise408 · April 1

I don't think this change is going to end up being significant enough one way or another to be a boom or bust.

Jammy420 · April 1

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't believe anyone expects that a huge number of players will return to the game. Some probably will, maybe quite a few, but it's not as if anyone is expecting peak numbers because of a change like this. Not ZOS, certainly, and I don't think anyone here is either. It's just something a lot of players have asked for over the years and ZOS now has the ability to address it.

One of the biggest arguments that's been presented for increasing overland difficulty is that a lot of former players would return and a lot of new players would come. But I don't see that happening for reasons I've already given.

I am actually considering returning if the difficulty is reasonable and not just a hp / damage buff. If the overland content and quest content becomes memorable and at least modestly challenging, I will have a reason to actually finish the content past western skyrim.

mocap · April 1

TaSheen wrote: »

Same for me - from the opposite of your viewpoint though.

Yet you will be free to choose from that new overland difficulty and current one. Me, in case new difficulty will be crap, i can only take crap and crap++.

spartaxoxo · April 1

Franchise408 wrote: »

I don't think this change is going to end up being significant enough one way or another to be a boom or bust.

Same. I am mostly just expecting it to be a very modest but optional change that only moves the needle a bit. But, I am just happy to finally feel like there is traction on this.

TaSheen · April 1

mocap wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Same for me - from the opposite of your viewpoint though.

Yet you will be free to choose from that new overland difficulty and current one. Me, in case new difficulty will be crap, i can only take crap and crap++.

I'm not expecting anything optional. This game isn't very good at optional....

spartaxoxo · April 1

TaSheen wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Same for me - from the opposite of your viewpoint though.

Yet you will be free to choose from that new overland difficulty and current one. Me, in case new difficulty will be crap, i can only take crap and crap++.

I'm not expecting anything optional. This game isn't very good at optional....

The content creator teased optional. But who knows. I really hope that it is so that people who enjoy the current experience can continue to enjoy it. Also, I think having it be optional gives them a lot more wriggle room in making it something that will actually be enjoyable to those of us who enjoy other challenging content in the game. It just makes the most sense. But, again, who knows what they will do! Fingers crossed.

TaSheen · April 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Same for me - from the opposite of your viewpoint though.

Yet you will be free to choose from that new overland difficulty and current one. Me, in case new difficulty will be crap, i can only take crap and crap++.

I'm not expecting anything optional. This game isn't very good at optional....

The content creator teased optional. But who knows. I really hope that it is so that people who enjoy the current experience can continue to enjoy it. Also, I think having it be optional gives them a lot more wriggle room in making it something that will actually be enjoyable to those of us who enjoy other challenging content in the game. It just makes the most sense. But, again, who knows what they will do! Fingers crossed.

Well. We'll find out before long. But however it turns out, I've already cut my losses.

Red_Feather · April 2

On one of Rich Lambert's streams I suggested that beating the main villain of an expansion unlocks a curse on your account depending on the villain. Each curse unlocked adds a new layer to combat in the overland. And if you don't want a curse just go to a Shrine to toggle it off. I've posted about it so many times on the forums over the years and it never got traction, but I honestly feel it would please so many people.

How many creative curses could you come up with? Have fun with it.

edit: If you ever played the Division 2 game, it's known as 'directives' there. I use a few directives when playing as they make combat WAY more interesting. I like the Ragers, Fragile Armour, Fog of War, Cool Skills, Scavenged Skills and Special Ammo directives. But there is way more than that! They rotate 5 togglable directives each week for general PVE, and only certain game modes have all existing directives available to toggle on/off to make things pretty wild.

colossalvoids · April 2

Red_Feather wrote: »

On one of Rich Lambert's streams I suggested that beating the main villain of an expansion unlocks a curse on your account depending on the villain. Each curse unlocked adds a new layer to combat in the overland. And if you don't want a curse just go to a Shrine to toggle it off. I've posted about it so many times on the forums over the years and it never got traction, but I honestly feel it would please so many people.

How many creative curses could you come up with? Have fun with it.

edit: If you ever played the Division 2 game, it's known as 'directives' there. I use a few directives when playing as they make combat WAY more interesting. I like the Ragers, Fragile Armour, Fog of War, Cool Skills, Scavenged Skills and Special Ammo directives. But there is way more than that! They rotate 5 togglable directives each week for general PVE, and only certain game modes have all existing directives available to toggle on/off to make things pretty wild.

Add there a new player aimed one right off the start like "fresh blood" or something adding base difficulty at the very start and that sounds pretty neat and gamy enough to be actually a cool addition.

Snamyap · April 2

Inyhel wrote: »

I don't think overland content should be made more difficult 'cause it will make it harder for newer and solo players.
If people want a challenge there's PVP and plenty of dungeons and trials specifically for that reason.

Overland and Quest content is about 70-80% of the game. It's ludicrous to balance that amount of content to new players that have zero experience with computer games.

Having said that, the biggest problem with tackling this issue is that the desired difficulty level has a very, very wide spread. I quit playing a year and a half ago, this issue being one of the main reason. I checked back into the game just this week in anticipation of this change. But back when I quit I just finished soloing (with companion) all normal dungeons that didn't have mechanics that made soloing impossible. That's a fine difficulty level for me, but of course not for everyone. There are people that solo dlc dungeons on veteran mode, there are people who won't even try fungal grotto on normal. Making everybody happy will be impossible. I just hope, and expect, that whatever it is they come up with that it is optional. My preferences should not come at the cost of someone else's enjoyment of the game.