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Warden Tank Newbie Questions

LootAllTheStuff
LootAllTheStuff
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I'm working on getting my Warden character at least tanky enough for normal group dungeons (as a starting point) and have some questions.
  1. A lot of warden tank builds seem to use S&B on front and frost staff on back. Is there any particular advantage to the front/back placement, or does it not matter (as long as the corresponding skills are in the right place)?
  2. Between the Warden skill lines, S&B (for taunt), and destruction staff, there are MANY options. What are some good combos from the basic skill lines? Specifically thinking about the balance between pet and healing skills versus offensive skills.
  3. Initially at least I'm going with crafted sets. For a frost staff, what would be better for the enchantment - additional frost damage, S/W damage/penetration, or something else?
  4. Talking of taunt, thoughts on the pros/cons of the two Puncture morphs?
  5. Looking further ahead, the other option is the Undaunted skill line taunt. Is this worth pursuing as a replacement for the S&B one, or are they about the same?

Thanks in advance for any/all responses!
  • Thumbless_Bot
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    Get all your passive skills filled including class, racial, undaunted, support, vigor, and weapons. I use the scribed shield skill to taunt because of the range. Use tri recovery food or jewels and have at least 30k health. For sets, use something that has group utility. Though, pretty much anything will work for normal dungeons. But don't gold anything. Purple is fine. You will also be able to do most vet dungeons with this setup.
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    1. If you swap the bars then your backbar will be your frontbar. So no it doesn’t matter but your s&b bar will be your frontbar anyways. You can double ice staff but I wouldn’t suggest that for dungeons.

    3. Whenever I set up my tanks I make sure I have certain types of skills:
    • Melee taunt (puncture)
    • Ranged taunt (frost clench or inner fire)
    • Major resolve (frost cloak)
    • Sustain skill (netch)
    • Self-heal (polar wind)
    • Ice blockade
    • Single-target chain (ice gate, silver leash, or scribe one)
    • Defensive posture on s&b bar for reduced block cost
    I have certain places I put them all, it makes setting up and switching between tanks easier. Something to keep in mind for dungeons is also aoe pull (scribed or void bash), immobilize (the other morph of winters revenge), and aoe breach (razor caltrops). They’re not required but it will make trash pulls go smoother. I have a trash and a boss build, so I drop ice blockade for trash to have enough room for all those skills, and I don’t run an aoe pull on bosses. But I would just stick with one build for now, I only really bother using my boss build in vet dlc or last boss of vet nondlc.

    3. Crusher. One of the most important buffs you can give your group is penetration, and dungeon groups won’t hit pen cap, so you just have to try your best to get as close as possible by using major breach, minor breach, crusher, and either tremorscale or crimson oath.

    4. I always go with the double breach one. As said above, dungeon groups really need pen. I think you’ll also get the same buff ransack gives you from your ice fortress (tank morph of frost cloak). That said, the buff isn’t really that important, in the future it may be beneficial to run expansive cloak to help your groups defense, but I’d start with ice fortress and work from there.

    5. The undaunted taunt is strong but I wouldn’t run it over puncture because of the pen issue. In trials you can consider running it instead and only having one taunt because in organized trials there’s higher group penetration.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
    • Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
    • Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!

      View my builds!
  • Taril
    Taril
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    1) Bar position doesn't matter. Most people just default to making their front bar their main bar for obvious reasons (I.e. They likely were using it pre-15 when they only had 1 bar)

    2) What you're looking for as a Tank is to hit the main buffs/debuffs you need and having some sustain options to stay alive.

    - Taunt is obvious and you have several options (SnB, Undaunted, Scribe, Frost Staff). You usually want at least 1 ranged taunt, if not a pull ability (Silver Leash from Fighter's Guild is popular because it's both a pull and a taunt. But you also can get the same benefit from a Pull scribed skill)

    - Self sustain you have Polar Wind

    - Major/Minor Breach you have Piece Armor or Deep Fissure

    - Resolve you have Ice Fortress

    - For an ult, generally you'll be wanting Aggressive Horn since you're mainly going to want to be buffing your party. Healing Thicket or Replenishing Barrier can be a useful secondary ultimate for any times things get a bit hairy and you want to boost of sustain for yourself/your party.

    - Betty Netch is also very valuable for extra resources (Generally you'll be wanting Bull Netch because your blocks cost Stamina - Yes, even with Staff. Most tanks will skip Tri Focus specifically because they don't want staff blocks to cost Magicka. Blue Betty can be used if you're going for a more niche Staff/Staff style build and actually using Tri Focus to have Magicka blocks though such a build is a lot more awkward due to most skills will be costing Magicka too)

    3) Crushing. The main reason to even have a Staff equipped in the first place as a Tank is to get the 2h version of Crushing. For your 1h you can put whatever it's not a major factor. You just really want 2h version of Crushing.

    It's also for this reason why you want to ensure your Staff bar has a skill that can enable the enchant to proc continually (Such as Elemental Blockade)

    4) Pierce Armor is always the best choice. It provides 2 of the main debuffs you want to be applying as a Tank and is incredibly uncommon.

    Most classes inherently have a way to access the Minor Protection offered by Ransack (Warden gets it as part of Ice Fortress for example)

    5) Inner Beast can be an alternative to Pierce Armor if you opt for using Deep Fissure to apply both Breaches. This lets you flesh out your overall debuff bases to include Minor Maim and Minor Vulnerability. If you're not using Deep Fissure, you'll want to be using Pierce Armor for the Breaches.
  • LootAllTheStuff
    LootAllTheStuff
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    So it sounds like if I'm doing S&B/staff, but am nowhere near unlocking Inner Beast, it would be good to pair S&B with Pierce, and staff with Deep Fissure? Or do the debuffs from Deep Fissure and staff with Crushing not stack?

    I've got some of the bits and pieces in place for the rest of it, but I need to go grab a whole bunch of skyshards for the rest - should be fun! Looks like the current event might be a good time to work on this, too.

    Thanks to everyone for the insight - very helpful!



  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    So it sounds like if I'm doing S&B/staff, but am nowhere near unlocking Inner Beast, it would be good to pair S&B with Pierce, and staff with Deep Fissure? Or do the debuffs from Deep Fissure and staff with Crushing not stack?

    I've got some of the bits and pieces in place for the rest of it, but I need to go grab a whole bunch of skyshards for the rest - should be fun! Looks like the current event might be a good time to work on this, too.

    Thanks to everyone for the insight - very helpful!

    If you’re nowhere near getting inner beast, use frost clench or your chain as your range taunt (chain cannot refresh taunt like a proper range taunt can). You don’t need both puncture and deep fissure because they both apply breach, you can only have one instance of minor breach and one instance of major breach because they’re named buffs. Crusher is its own debuff.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
    • Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
    • Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!

      View my builds!
  • GimpyPorcupine
    GimpyPorcupine
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    I'm working on getting my Warden character at least tanky enough for normal group dungeons (as a starting point) and have some questions.
    1. A lot of warden tank builds seem to use S&B on front and frost staff on back. Is there any particular advantage to the front/back placement, or does it not matter (as long as the corresponding skills are in the right place)?
    2. Between the Warden skill lines, S&B (for taunt), and destruction staff, there are MANY options. What are some good combos from the basic skill lines? Specifically thinking about the balance between pet and healing skills versus offensive skills.
    3. Initially at least I'm going with crafted sets. For a frost staff, what would be better for the enchantment - additional frost damage, S/W damage/penetration, or something else?
    4. Talking of taunt, thoughts on the pros/cons of the two Puncture morphs?
    5. Looking further ahead, the other option is the Undaunted skill line taunt. Is this worth pursuing as a replacement for the S&B one, or are they about the same?

    Thanks in advance for any/all responses!

    Front or back doesn't matter.

    You'll do better with buffs and debuffs than offensive skills. What pet? Bear? You're better off using Permafrost and Warhorn for your ultimates.

    Use a crushing enchantment for additonal debuff on the targets; that will provide more group DPS than any damage you could output.

    Pierce armor is the better morph because it also applies both major and minor breach. You can also use Clench with your frost staff, Inner Fire, or a scribed taunt.

    I like taunts on both bars, and Inner Fire gives a synergy opportunity. Ranged taunts are good for a long running pull, where you bring all the adds to the boss, and then group ulti-dump. You can get really fast clears like this.

    8-hr/day casual on Xbox NA. 20 Characters, all DC, all Level 50. +2600CP
  • GimpyPorcupine
    GimpyPorcupine
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    I should add: you'll want Ele Blockade on your frost staff bar, and Gripping Shards on either bar, because wardens get increased block mitigation for a period of time after doing frost damage. Gripping shards is a really good root, comparable to a DK's talons, and will proc that mitigation. Plus having it slotted gives extra resistance from the skill line passive.

    Ele Blockade can proc your Crusher enchantment.

    I don't run the netch for resources, and I don't usually have much problem with sustain since I can choose what resource to block with just by bar swapping. Race comes into play on that, some just sustain better than others. When in doubt, roll an Imperial.
    8-hr/day casual on Xbox NA. 20 Characters, all DC, all Level 50. +2600CP
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    I should add: you'll want Ele Blockade on your frost staff bar, and Gripping Shards on either bar, because wardens get increased block mitigation for a period of time after doing frost damage. Gripping shards is a really good root, comparable to a DK's talons, and will proc that mitigation. Plus having it slotted gives extra resistance from the skill line passive.

    Ele Blockade can proc your Crusher enchantment.

    I don't run the netch for resources, and I don't usually have much problem with sustain since I can choose what resource to block with just by bar swapping. Race comes into play on that, some just sustain better than others. When in doubt, roll an Imperial.

    This is true if you go for using tri-focus, and a good point. A lot of people will say using tri-focus is bad and you absolutely shouldn't, but I haven't seen any solid evidence that says that to be true, aside from if you're trying to double staff (then tri-focus is really bad because all your blocking would be magicka cost, same as most of your skills). Personally, I use tri-focus and my sustain is pretty good because of it (I usually run sorc or necro, where sorc's sustain skill requires you to drop block like heavy attacks do and necro requires a corpse to tether to). On the point of heavy attacking, you can also heavy attack for resources as long as you're not being hit by high damage continuously.

    I wouldn't flat out suggest using it, its personal choice. If you want to double staff later, then don't get used to using tri-focus. If you want to be able to block with either resource, use tri-focus.
    Edited by Soarora on 24 January 2025 17:50
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
    • Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
    • Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!

      View my builds!
  • LootAllTheStuff
    LootAllTheStuff
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    OK this is all helpful, and I think I'm getting a clearer picture of where I'm headed build-wise now. I'll keep plugging away at grabbing sky shards and levelling up the relevant skills for now, but even some of the things I've already managed to work in are feeling good. Onwards...
  • Zodiarkslayer
    Zodiarkslayer
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    It doesn't matter what you do in normal Dungeons. Really doesn't.

    In Veteran you will notice that you need to worry about positioning, herding the add waves and keeping your debuffs on the Boss.
    Warden can be tanky, buff and do a little damage at the same time. But it's not for beginners.

    As a newbie tank you'll need to build for sustain more than for tankiness.
    Depending on what skills you use you'll needd to adjust your betty morph and your potions, your jewelry enchants and so on.
    And do not perma block! Observe your enemy and time your blocks.
    Edited by Zodiarkslayer on 27 January 2025 06:14
    If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...

    Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.
  • LootAllTheStuff
    LootAllTheStuff
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    It doesn't matter what you do in normal Dungeons. Really doesn't.

    In Veteran you will notice that you need to worry about positioning, herding the add waves and keeping you debuffs on the Boss.
    Warden can be tanky, buff and do a little damage at the same time. But it's not for beginners.

    As a newbie tank you'll need to build for sustain more than for tankiness.
    Depending on ehat skills you use you'll needd to adjust you betty morph and your potions, your jewelry enchants and so on.
    And do not perma block! Observe your enemy and time your blocks.

    Question related to that last part... I've noticed that enemies can telegraph with either yellow or red lines before unleashing an attack, but I'm a little unclear on what the colour of the lines signifies. I believe one of them might be charging up a heavy attack and the other charging a skill attack? Are there any general guidelines for knowing when to block and when to dodge?

    Another question would be, are there any good choices for zone/dungeon when it comes time to work up from normal to vet? Maybe Craglorn or some of the DLC zones? Just looking to ease the difficulty spike a little bit.
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    It doesn't matter what you do in normal Dungeons. Really doesn't.

    In Veteran you will notice that you need to worry about positioning, herding the add waves and keeping you debuffs on the Boss.
    Warden can be tanky, buff and do a little damage at the same time. But it's not for beginners.

    As a newbie tank you'll need to build for sustain more than for tankiness.
    Depending on ehat skills you use you'll needd to adjust you betty morph and your potions, your jewelry enchants and so on.
    And do not perma block! Observe your enemy and time your blocks.

    Question related to that last part... I've noticed that enemies can telegraph with either yellow or red lines before unleashing an attack, but I'm a little unclear on what the colour of the lines signifies. I believe one of them might be charging up a heavy attack and the other charging a skill attack? Are there any general guidelines for knowing when to block and when to dodge?

    Another question would be, are there any good choices for zone/dungeon when it comes time to work up from normal to vet? Maybe Craglorn or some of the DLC zones? Just looking to ease the difficulty spike a little bit.

    Red lines mean that someone, anyone, needs to bash the enemy. Yellow lines are the boss winding up a heavy attack, that you usually need to block. Personally, I do hold block until I learn when it's time to not block as opposed to not holding block and learn when to block, but personal preference and dependent on your sustain. Typically, you need to block heavy attacks that are single-target (most of them) and roll heavy attacks that are AoE (Graven Deep last boss conal, Shipwrights hulk AoEs, Fang Lair last boss shalk spawning, are a few of them that come to mind).
    I started with vet nondlc, went through the order of dungeons a bit, then started with old dlcs, working up towards newer ones. UESP has them in release order.
    Edited by Soarora on 26 January 2025 19:57
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
    • Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
    • Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!

      View my builds!
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