Horrible relequen change

Prionyx · January 17

So basically you're nerfing one of the 2 last remaining sets that actually rewards you for playing well in PvE and at the same time buff this set for PvP where sets like relequen and pyrebrand are widely known to be a cancer of PvP?

Arms of Relequen:
2 piece: 657 Critical Chance -> 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 piece: 657 Critical Chance -> 1487 Offensive Penetration
Perfected bonus: 1096 Max Stamina -> 129 Weapon and Spell Damage

WPD and PEN are the best stats for PvP while crit is the best stat for PvE... Imagine necro's main face with his 54% crit chance meta ST build when you take off 6% more. If you want to make it more "applicable" change stam bonus to WPD or crit.

xylena_lazarow · January 17

What's weirder is they nerfed Way of Fire, which was basically a worse version of Relequen. It was nowhere near enough damage to be considered "fire and forget" and the real problem is way too much ranged damage flying around.

Ranged pot shots with a Bow Relequen StamSorc for example is an obscene amount of damage, now it's even more? Relequen behaves similar to pre nerf Savage Werewolf, a set they nerfed because of this exact playstyle.

Neither Relequen nor Way of Fire are the most hated proc in PvP, that still goes to Rushing Agony, which somehow went untouched. Even the ball groups who abuse this set think it's terrible design. Monsters only time.

katorga · January 17

Does relequen show up on death recaps? I don’t think I’ve seen it ever in Cyro. Rushof Agony is on every recap for at least the last month.

xylena_lazarow · January 17

katorga wrote: »

Does relequen show up on death recaps? I don’t think I’ve seen it ever in Cyro. Rushof Agony is on every recap for at least the last month.

They're unrelated, RoA is ball group abuse, Relequen is an annoying duel set that becomes extremely toxic when zergers are ranging you down with it. I'd assume you'd see it more in PvP if it weren't a Trials drop.

virtus753 · January 17

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

J18696 · January 17

virtus753 wrote: »

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

YandereGirlfriend · January 17

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

Which is a bugged interaction, IMO.

Markytous · January 17

J18696 wrote: »

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

Every stack should be cleansed. If it was intentionally designed otherwise, I disagree with the choice that every stack should be considered its own negative effect.

virtus753 · January 18

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

It was badly bugged.

My partner put 10 stacks of Rele on me.

I purged. With one purge I went down to 1 stack (verified in CMX both in terms of stack numbers and corresponding damage).

The very next light attack brought the stacks back up to 10 (in stack number and damage).

That cannot be working as intended. 1 + 1 only equals 10 in binary.

StaticWave · January 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Does relequen show up on death recaps? I don’t think I’ve seen it ever in Cyro. Rushof Agony is on every recap for at least the last month.

They're unrelated, RoA is ball group abuse, Relequen is an annoying duel set that becomes extremely toxic when zergers are ranging you down with it. I'd assume you'd see it more in PvP if it weren't a Trials drop.

Relequen is meta for a lot of ranged builds, and it being a trial set is probably why we don't see it as often. I can guarantee if it was an overland/crafted/dungeon set we would see Relequen on almost every ranged build. I remember making a thread about Relequen a year ago and people eventually saw how oppressive it was months later.

ZOS could have just made the set work on monsters only and it would solve the issue of it being oppresive in PvP.

xylena_lazarow · January 18

StaticWave wrote: »

Relequen is meta for a lot of ranged builds

I've also seen sweaty smallscale comps with 3 Rele BowSorcs and 1 Warden healbot. No thanks.

I normally defend pressure procs but Relequen is toxic in PvP. The numbers are too big, but worse than that, it works best from maximum range on a Bow, enabling heinous cheese playstyles to dominate. No thanks. It's a similar playstyle to MagSorc, which is much easier to build and pilot, also a factor in why Rele doesn't show up that much.

J18696 · January 18

virtus753 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

It was badly bugged.

My partner put 10 stacks of Rele on me.

I purged. With one purge I went down to 1 stack (verified in CMX both in terms of stack numbers and corresponding damage).

The very next light attack brought the stacks back up to 10 (in stack number and damage).

That cannot be working as intended. 1 + 1 only equals 10 in binary.

The stacks being treated as individual debuffs is nothing new and it works the same for other stack debuff sets like jeralls for example but the going from 1 to 10 stacks after a purge is new to me that's definitely a issue

RandomKodiak · January 19

@ZOS_Kevin Anyway to get more dev comment other than the word salad they gave on why they are making Rele completely useless in PvE? If this change goes through as said above it buffs it for PvP but just adds to the seemingly endless list of sets no longer useable (or at least not worth using) in PvE. This one hurts way more than most as almost every PvE player will have to completely rework at least one if not 10 builds and NOTHING in actual combat (not talking parsing) does the same damage for anyone not on a DoT build for bosses. I understand things change and get reworked but this takes the number one non dot set and wipes it out for PvE use.

RandomKodiak · January 19

Also related, I realize that they do well in PvP but if you take away Rele like this there is no way a Sorc, who has no dots and has to use 2 slots on each bar for pets, will be invited anywhere ever again in PvE as their damage will go negative. You will have effectively killed an entire class with this change (for PvE).

YandereGirlfriend · January 19

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Anyway to get more dev comment other than the word salad they gave on why they are making Rele completely useless in PvE? If this change goes through as said above it buffs it for PvP but just adds to the seemingly endless list of sets no longer useable (or at least not worth using) in PvE. This one hurts way more than most as almost every PvE player will have to completely rework at least one if not 10 builds and NOTHING in actual combat (not talking parsing) does the same damage for anyone not on a DoT build for bosses. I understand things change and get reworked but this takes the number one non dot set and wipes it out for PvE use.

I don't understand the change, either, but "not longer usable" seems more than a bit hyperbolic.

Unfortunate for those small % of players who really are score-pushing or whatnot, but, similarly to Azureblight, sets shouldn't be carrying classes to begin with, it should be their actual abilities (of course, I also know that there were basically zero class changes in this patch).

RandomKodiak · January 19

With no crit on any line Rele does become useless in PvE. Losing one line would be painful but doable no crit on Rele makes most if not all Vet builds not viable as crit is the best stat in PvE. As is now most builds in Vet content are sitting at around 50-58% crit chance before buffs and dropping below 50% is not good for damage at all. Stam builds will feel this the most of course but losing 7% crit in PvE is a massive loss of dps.

virtus753 · January 19

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Did they ever fix the issue where Rele couldn't be purged properly?

I don't think it was ever bugged rele is applied in stacks purge removes the individual stacks

It was badly bugged.

My partner put 10 stacks of Rele on me.

I purged. With one purge I went down to 1 stack (verified in CMX both in terms of stack numbers and corresponding damage).

The very next light attack brought the stacks back up to 10 (in stack number and damage).

That cannot be working as intended. 1 + 1 only equals 10 in binary.

The stacks being treated as individual debuffs is nothing new and it works the same for other stack debuff sets like jeralls for example but the going from 1 to 10 stacks after a purge is new to me that's definitely a issue

The stacks weren’t counted in any rational way for the purging either. What skill in game removes exactly 9 negative effects with one cast? If each stack is one negative effect, that’s what the skill would have to do. It didn’t clear the last stack, just the other 9.

birdik · January 19

Meh another pve arcanists up

Greystag · January 20

I get it from a design perspective, as Relequen can't deal crit damage, and thus having it give it sounds a bit unintuitive.

However, from a gameplay perspective, I can't really understand the change. There are also dozens of useless sets that could use the attention instead.

bar_boss_A · January 20

Absolutely agree with what was said in this thread. I would like to propose a different way of bringing relequens 5piece bonus and 2-4 piece boni in line:
Get rid of the stacking mechanic and buff the base tick damage by two and reduce the duration by 2s-3s. 2-4 boni should stay as before the change, perfected bonus could be weapon damage if stamina is too ... well stamina. Should roughly end in the same overall DPS, reduce server load and you still have to maintain the light attack weaving to get the best out of the set. Additionally it would loose oppressiveness in pvp as the proc scales now with crit chance and crit damage.