BG:Why can Overload Sorcs stack their ult to 500 pregame when all other ults consume all ult on use?
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moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭Do you seriously want to see 20 seconds of Corrosive Armor or 40 seconds of Blood Scion with full health recovery not once but twice?2 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭Because Overload is a buff that gets consumed with uses of another attack, rather than every other ult, which is one big effect. Not that unfair, far as I can see.8 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Because Overload is a buff that gets consumed with uses of another attack, rather than every other ult, which is one big effect. Not that unfair, far as I can see.
uses of another attack... not sure what you mean by that..
(TBH I'm a novice Sorc, is the overload light attack considered a full action compared to the GCD?)
I suppose this is a question of: Should all player start with 500 ult at the start of a battlegrounds?Edited by Avran_Sylt on 31 December 2024 22:191 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Avran_Sylt The easiest way to compare Overload would be to compare it to other transformation abilities and not ultimates that get cast. Overload is basically a toggleable transformation ultimate that changes the players light/heavy attacks.
The difference between Overload and other transformation ultimates is that the other transformation ultimates provide a buff/effect on cast for a set duration for a set ultimate cost, where overload takes that same GCD to cast it, but does nothing until you light/heavy attack.
E.g. Corrosive reducing damage taken to 3% of max health + full pen for all direct attacks for 10 seconds at the cost of 200 ultimate, so you can think of corrosive as applying its effects at a cost of 20 ultimate per second for 10 seconds.
Overload alters light/heavy attacks, but instead of a set duration + upfront cost, it is a set cost per light attack (or heavy attack tick of damage) that can be toggled on or off.
Overall it's effects are weaker than other transformation ultimates and it cannot interact with sets that proc on ultimate cast like balorgh/witchmans (this set is basically DKs battle roar passive), but it makes up for those downsides by being able to toggle on and off as required, thus not requiring building up a significant amount of ultimate before being able to use it.
As for your follow up question, there's a housing item you can get, that when interacted with, gives full resources (including ultimate). Most BG sweats will have one in their house (or a friends/guild house) and will use it when they want to do a BG to ensure they start BGs with 500 ulti (no matter what class they play). Others will likely just farm random NPC overload mobs while waiting for the queue to pop to charge up ultimate before porting in (super easy to do considering most queues take like 5-15 mins to pop).7 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.Edited by MincMincMinc on 3 January 2025 02:59Zos should hire pvp consultants2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
Edited by Avran_Sylt on 5 January 2025 17:500 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From a fairness perspective, everyone's ult should be set to 0 when a BG starts. That said, most BGs last long enough that starting with ult shouldn't make that much difference.4 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?Edited by Kahnak on 7 January 2025 20:42Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.1 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »From a fairness perspective, everyone's ult should be set to 0 when a BG starts. That said, most BGs last long enough that starting with ult shouldn't make that much difference.
This should always have been a thing even with the old BG format. Would to a certain degree remove those situations where a team got a few acuity wardens who can pop a 500 ult northern storm during the first fight as well.Edited by Major_Mangle on 8 January 2025 11:48Ps4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -2 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.
I do not agree that starting a match with sub-500 ultimate while using Overload is somehow a penalty. That's a gross exaggeration, and something that could be easily remedied with a couple of minutes in the overland zones between matches if it was really that much of an issue.
There is also a difference between being obstinate and refusing to chase the meta. Optimization ≠ Meta Chasing. Furthermore, if your goal is to go against the grain, why would you then state that:
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Even if that were true, why would that matter if meta-gaming is not your concern in the first place?
"Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's"
A change like this wouldn't bother me, but, as it was stated earlier in the thread, from a fairness perspective everyone should start with 0 Ultimate.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.
I do not agree that starting a match with sub-500 ultimate while using Overload is somehow a penalty. That's a gross exaggeration, and something that could be easily remedied with a couple of minutes in the overland zones between matches if it was really that much of an issue.
There is also a difference between being obstinate and refusing to chase the meta. Optimization ≠ Meta Chasing. Furthermore, if your goal is to go against the grain, why would you then state that:
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Even if that were true, why would that matter if meta-gaming is not your concern in the first place?
"Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's"
A change like this wouldn't bother me, but, as it was stated earlier in the thread, from a fairness perspective everyone should start with 0 Ultimate.
Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?
But I also agree that from a fairness... And in my mind an encapsulation approach to BG matches, starting from 0 ult would be best. As starting at 500 would also just be a boon to Balorgh players too.0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.
I do not agree that starting a match with sub-500 ultimate while using Overload is somehow a penalty. That's a gross exaggeration, and something that could be easily remedied with a couple of minutes in the overland zones between matches if it was really that much of an issue.
There is also a difference between being obstinate and refusing to chase the meta. Optimization ≠ Meta Chasing. Furthermore, if your goal is to go against the grain, why would you then state that:
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Even if that were true, why would that matter if meta-gaming is not your concern in the first place?
"Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's"
A change like this wouldn't bother me, but, as it was stated earlier in the thread, from a fairness perspective everyone should start with 0 Ultimate.
Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?
But I also agree that from a fairness... And in my mind an encapsulation approach to BG matches, starting from 0 ult would be best. As starting at 500 would also just be a boon to Balorgh players too.
"Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?"
I can identify implicitly with this sentiment. Generally, I will have one or two characters that align somewhat with the meta, but most of other toons are built around a theme and optimized from there. I think PVE allows a little more for this, at least until you get to the bleeding edge content.
And, to be fair, as someone who has been playing mainly Sorc since Morrowind, I can't recall any time ZOS has re-examined Overload in any meaningful way.Edited by Kahnak on 8 January 2025 20:37Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.
I do not agree that starting a match with sub-500 ultimate while using Overload is somehow a penalty. That's a gross exaggeration, and something that could be easily remedied with a couple of minutes in the overland zones between matches if it was really that much of an issue.
There is also a difference between being obstinate and refusing to chase the meta. Optimization ≠ Meta Chasing. Furthermore, if your goal is to go against the grain, why would you then state that:
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Even if that were true, why would that matter if meta-gaming is not your concern in the first place?
"Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's"
A change like this wouldn't bother me, but, as it was stated earlier in the thread, from a fairness perspective everyone should start with 0 Ultimate.
Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?
But I also agree that from a fairness... And in my mind an encapsulation approach to BG matches, starting from 0 ult would be best. As starting at 500 would also just be a boon to Balorgh players too.
"Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?"
I can identify implicitly with this sentiment. Generally, I will have one or two characters that align somewhat with the meta, but most of other toons are built around a theme and optimized from there. I think PVE allows a little more for this, at least until you get to the bleeding edge content.
And, to be fair, as someone who has been playing mainly Sorc since Morrowind, I can't recall any time ZOS has re-examined Overload in any meaningful way.
the only big change i remember to overload was when they got rid of the "3rd skill bar" that overload got lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Want dks to stack 500 ult and hit you with 6 leaps in a row? Where you are not allowed to roll dodge or move at all.
Hmm?
All other Ults consume all current Ult on use, Except for Overload.
From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches.
Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output.
@Turtle_Bot did mention there’s a housing item that can be used to max resources, so there’s that, but at that point why not level the playing field even more and just slap full resources on all players that enter the BG arena?
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Uh, maybe if you're entire build is centered around Overload. This would be like using the Bear ultimate on a Warden in PvP when everyone else is using Northern Storm/Permafrost and wondering why you aren't competitive.
"Just seems kinda unfair that you need to stack ult that high pre-game to be competitive as starting with an otherwise lowered reserve could significantly hinder your damage output."
Considering that Light Attack damage was totally squashed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be using an ultimate that is contingent upon light attacking if your goal is high damage output. You admitted yourself in another thread that Ice Comet is one of, if not the best ultimate in the game for PvP. Why is it more unfair for Sorc if they have access to that and other, better ultimate abilities?
...Because if a player wants to use Overload instead of being a meta-chaser, they're not only using a "sub-par" ult, but also get penalized if they start with non-500 ult?
Sorc needs a buff in this regard: Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's.
I do not agree that starting a match with sub-500 ultimate while using Overload is somehow a penalty. That's a gross exaggeration, and something that could be easily remedied with a couple of minutes in the overland zones between matches if it was really that much of an issue.
There is also a difference between being obstinate and refusing to chase the meta. Optimization ≠ Meta Chasing. Furthermore, if your goal is to go against the grain, why would you then state that:
"From a meta-gaming standpoint Overload near-mandates getting full ult between matches."
Even if that were true, why would that matter if meta-gaming is not your concern in the first place?
"Make all players start at 500 ult in BG's"
A change like this wouldn't bother me, but, as it was stated earlier in the thread, from a fairness perspective everyone should start with 0 Ultimate.
Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?
But I also agree that from a fairness... And in my mind an encapsulation approach to BG matches, starting from 0 ult would be best. As starting at 500 would also just be a boon to Balorgh players too.
"Sometimes people want to optimize their off-meta builds?"
I can identify implicitly with this sentiment. Generally, I will have one or two characters that align somewhat with the meta, but most of other toons are built around a theme and optimized from there. I think PVE allows a little more for this, at least until you get to the bleeding edge content.
And, to be fair, as someone who has been playing mainly Sorc since Morrowind, I can't recall any time ZOS has re-examined Overload in any meaningful way.
the only big change i remember to overload was when they got rid of the "3rd skill bar" that overload got lol
Hah. Oh my god, that's right! I think there were some exploits tied to that 3rd bar, as well.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0