Knight slayer

Typical_Tim · January 5

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

dark_hunterxmg · January 5

This set is pretty underpowered. A 35k health player is only getting hit with 2800 damage per heavy attack, which is a super slow and buggy way to try and fight. The max is 8000 damage if the target has 100k health, which is unrealistic. It should probably actually get buffed to 10% since 80k health is the most you'll see in pvp.
The counter to this set is to avoid getting hit with a heavy attack over and over again, or cast one of the 4-6 healing skills that you might have on your bar. Running in circles, dodging, and moving fast, will all make you a difficult target. Knightslayer is one of maybe 3 heavy attack sets left in the game that hasn't been designated as pve only, which is sad.
It sounds more like the 12 man zerg is what is overwhelming you, not the Knightslayer.

huskandhunger · January 6

12k crystal frags sorcerers say hello

dark_hunterxmg · January 6

huskandhunger wrote: »

12k crystal frags sorcerers say hello

It would probably take 2-3 heavy attacks +knightslayer+glyph proc to equal 1 crystal frag from a good sorc.

BXR_Lonestar · January 7

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

Necrotech_Master · January 7

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Typical_Tim · January 7

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

Then you don't obviously play on xbox because there are coordinated zergs of 20 people running knightslayer every single day.

Kahnak · January 7

Typical_Tim wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

Then you don't obviously play on xbox because there are coordinated zergs of 20 people running knightslayer every single day.

The exaggeration isn't helping the case you're trying to make here.

Needless to say, if you're getting zerged by 20 people every single day then it doesn't really matter if they are wearing Knightslayer or not.

"When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?"

I mean, is this set adjustment even a serious proposal? It just reads like a, "___ killed me in PvP. Nerf ___."

dark_hunterxmg · January 8

The only adjustment that should be made to this set is to buff it. Increase to at least 10% of the targets max health(cap can remain at 8000 damage) , and make it craftable(or available) in all weights.

Artim_X · January 9

As a Knight Slayer enjoyer, I'll have you know that this set is decent, but has never been overpowered. Even now oblivion damage has a hard time fulfilling its "giant slaying" niche of killing tanky bois due to the current state of game balance.

Logic dictates that if 12+ peeps are smacking you then you are probably going to die. Knight Slayer also requires a full heavy attack, which can be dodged.

BXR_Lonestar · January 9

Typical_Tim wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

Then you don't obviously play on xbox because there are coordinated zergs of 20 people running knightslayer every single day.

I play on Xbox NA...I'm homed in BR and play between BR and GH quite often during prime time.

BXR_Lonestar · January 9

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

The only adjustment that should be made to this set is to buff it. Increase to at least 10% of the targets max health(cap can remain at 8000 damage) , and make it craftable(or available) in all weights.

Should buff it to 25%, given all the tank builds that are prevalent in PVP. Most players have 40k+ health, so 25% = 10k oblivion damage.

TechMaybeHic · January 9

I actually saw a group the other night PCNA just clustered channeling heavy lightning staffs and I was wondering what they were trying to do. This might be it. I think just a zerg focusing fire would be enough, but maybe makes something easier about it

Stx · January 9

Not to derail this at all but is Knighslayer useful at all for PvE heavy attack builds? I would assume if you were using it against a boss or world boss that you would get the full 8k damage proc with every heavy attack? But also that this damage doesn’t scale the same way as sets like noble duelist.

Necrotech_Master · January 9

Stx wrote: »

Not to derail this at all but is Knighslayer useful at all for PvE heavy attack builds? I would assume if you were using it against a boss or world boss that you would get the full 8k damage proc with every heavy attack? But also that this damage doesn’t scale the same way as sets like noble duelist.

oblivion dmg is all but useless in PVE

hard capped dmg, cannot crit, and enemies having very low resistances make it not worthwhile to use

to give you an example, all oblivion dmg items (such as knight slayer) say they cap on how much dmg they deal

you can extrapolate the max hp of an enemy to get that

knight slayer is 8% dmg, that means an enemy with 100k or more max hp you will hit the cap of 8000 dmg

in PVE this is virtually all enemies that arent complete trash mobs (or even all trash mobs if its say a vet dungeon)

overland trash mobs usually have between 32k and 64k max hp, so it wouldnt hit the cap on those but they die quickly anyway

now the other problem, oblivion dmg cannot crit

that means your never going to get more than 8000 dmg from a proc, most spammables or proc gear could hit for harder than that

if your using a standard HA set such as sergeant, your final lightning staff heavy tick could crit for 40k dmg easy

so in effect oblivion dmg is basically hot garbage in PVE

YandereGirlfriend · January 9

This set was stealth-nerfed a while ago when Lightning and Resto heavies were allowed to be dodged.

KaironBlackbard · January 10

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

KaironBlackbard · January 10

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

The only adjustment that should be made to this set is to buff it. Increase to at least 10% of the targets max health(cap can remain at 8000 damage) , and make it craftable(or available) in all weights.

Should buff it to 25%, given all the tank builds that are prevalent in PVP. Most players have 40k+ health, so 25% = 10k oblivion damage.

yeah that would be OP. The devs don't like having burst sets doing more than 1k-5k. DOT sets can do over 10k. Probably why Knight Slayer is set as it is, though I would like it to be better. This is for common/trash, not built. It also doesn't take crits into account.

Necrotech_Master · January 10

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

dark_hunterxmg · January 10

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Should buff it to 25%, given all the tank builds that are prevalent in PVP. Most players have 40k+ health, so 25% = 10k oblivion damage.

That would be entirely too strong. 8k is a good cap, but the percent of the enemies health needs to be higher. I think 10% is conservative. ~13% would be solid.

KaironBlackbard · January 11

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

I'm running a unique build with Knight Slayer as a backup/secondary set. The predacessor staff was a Flame Staff, averaging 4k damage per heavy attack, and applying the 12k burn from Tri Focus. Current Build with Lightning Staff Knight Slayer deals 5k to all enemies around target and 7k to the target. Random mobs in Craglorn. About 8.4k on tough targets, 2.7m health. Either I'm not seeing the oblivion damage, or it's not working, or it's limiting my heavy attack damage or something.

BXR_Lonestar · January 14

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I actually saw a group the other night PCNA just clustered channeling heavy lightning staffs and I was wondering what they were trying to do. This might be it. I think just a zerg focusing fire would be enough, but maybe makes something easier about it

I don't know about that. I've seen groups of heavy attack sorcs running around, but they were using detect pots + sentry, and they were balling up to zap bombs and bowganks. Against low armor and low health targets, knightslayer would be virtually useless compared to Seargants Mail or Storm Master.

Necrotech_Master · January 14

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

I'm running a unique build with Knight Slayer as a backup/secondary set. The predacessor staff was a Flame Staff, averaging 4k damage per heavy attack, and applying the 12k burn from Tri Focus. Current Build with Lightning Staff Knight Slayer deals 5k to all enemies around target and 7k to the target. Random mobs in Craglorn. About 8.4k on tough targets, 2.7m health. Either I'm not seeing the oblivion damage, or it's not working, or it's limiting my heavy attack damage or something.

your numbers seem about right for normal heavy attacks

most mobs in craglorn have closer to 60k+ hp in overland, so knight slayer would be adding about 6000+ dmg (which cannot crit)

in your example 2.7 mil hp implies a boss, so it would be getting the full 8k dmg from knight slayer if you had the effect active

i dont know exactly how your build looks but saying its "backup/secondary" implies your trying to back bar it, which means the 5th piece bonus wont be active on your front bar

Stx · January 15

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Not to derail this at all but is Knighslayer useful at all for PvE heavy attack builds? I would assume if you were using it against a boss or world boss that you would get the full 8k damage proc with every heavy attack? But also that this damage doesn’t scale the same way as sets like noble duelist.

oblivion dmg is all but useless in PVE

hard capped dmg, cannot crit, and enemies having very low resistances make it not worthwhile to use

to give you an example, all oblivion dmg items (such as knight slayer) say they cap on how much dmg they deal

you can extrapolate the max hp of an enemy to get that

knight slayer is 8% dmg, that means an enemy with 100k or more max hp you will hit the cap of 8000 dmg

in PVE this is virtually all enemies that arent complete trash mobs (or even all trash mobs if its say a vet dungeon)

overland trash mobs usually have between 32k and 64k max hp, so it wouldnt hit the cap on those but they die quickly anyway

now the other problem, oblivion dmg cannot crit

that means your never going to get more than 8000 dmg from a proc, most spammables or proc gear could hit for harder than that

if your using a standard HA set such as sergeant, your final lightning staff heavy tick could crit for 40k dmg easy

so in effect oblivion dmg is basically hot garbage in PVE

Thanks for the reply, and that makes sense. I was pondering trying to make use of knight slayer on a non lightning staff heavy attack build perhaps with two handed or sword and shield. Even though it can’t crit it might still add more damage than the noble duelist or sergeants sets since those damage values only get added once. But it sounds like even for a build like that, orders wrath / pillar of nirn might still be better.

Necrotech_Master · January 15

Stx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Not to derail this at all but is Knighslayer useful at all for PvE heavy attack builds? I would assume if you were using it against a boss or world boss that you would get the full 8k damage proc with every heavy attack? But also that this damage doesn’t scale the same way as sets like noble duelist.

oblivion dmg is all but useless in PVE

hard capped dmg, cannot crit, and enemies having very low resistances make it not worthwhile to use

to give you an example, all oblivion dmg items (such as knight slayer) say they cap on how much dmg they deal

you can extrapolate the max hp of an enemy to get that

knight slayer is 8% dmg, that means an enemy with 100k or more max hp you will hit the cap of 8000 dmg

in PVE this is virtually all enemies that arent complete trash mobs (or even all trash mobs if its say a vet dungeon)

overland trash mobs usually have between 32k and 64k max hp, so it wouldnt hit the cap on those but they die quickly anyway

now the other problem, oblivion dmg cannot crit

that means your never going to get more than 8000 dmg from a proc, most spammables or proc gear could hit for harder than that

if your using a standard HA set such as sergeant, your final lightning staff heavy tick could crit for 40k dmg easy

so in effect oblivion dmg is basically hot garbage in PVE

Thanks for the reply, and that makes sense. I was pondering trying to make use of knight slayer on a non lightning staff heavy attack build perhaps with two handed or sword and shield. Even though it can’t crit it might still add more damage than the noble duelist or sergeants sets since those damage values only get added once. But it sounds like even for a build like that, orders wrath / pillar of nirn might still be better.

sergeants would be harder to use for most other weapons heavy attacks, since you need it to build stacks to be at max effectiveness

noble duelist + another normal DPS set might be ideal for a melee HA, so like if you were 2h you might get some use out of that

noble duelist works in melee range and provides a good buff, which is then added to your base dmg before other multipliers (such as empower, off balance, and crits), this would make your 2h still hit very hard, and because your running 2h, then you would still be getting the splash dmg most other weapons heavy attacks lack (another key requirement for a successful heavy attack build is the aoe)

while it would only hit once, i think the aoe component of the attack would make the biggest difference (one of my characters was a WW running berserker morph which gets splash on the heavies, and empower + off balance with 0 other heavy attack sets i could still see nearly 40k dmg crits, it would probably be closer to 50k or so if i had at least 1 HA set like noble duelist)

KaironBlackbard · January 17

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

I'm running a unique build with Knight Slayer as a backup/secondary set. The predacessor staff was a Flame Staff, averaging 4k damage per heavy attack, and applying the 12k burn from Tri Focus. Current Build with Lightning Staff Knight Slayer deals 5k to all enemies around target and 7k to the target. Random mobs in Craglorn. About 8.4k on tough targets, 2.7m health. Either I'm not seeing the oblivion damage, or it's not working, or it's limiting my heavy attack damage or something.

your numbers seem about right for normal heavy attacks

most mobs in craglorn have closer to 60k+ hp in overland, so knight slayer would be adding about 6000+ dmg (which cannot crit)

in your example 2.7 mil hp implies a boss, so it would be getting the full 8k dmg from knight slayer if you had the effect active

i dont know exactly how your build looks but saying its "backup/secondary" implies your trying to back bar it, which means the 5th piece bonus wont be active on your front bar

No, my use of "secondary set" means I exchange it when I need to. Toon's a healer so I swap shoulders for Chokethorn when I need to dish more healing, which removes my 5th KS. It's always active on both bars.
My question is mostly why I'm not seeing the damage?
I spam the heavy attack against that guy in that camp with 2.7m health... He's not a real boss, just a guy with insanely high health and just a little more damage than normies, and named, but otherwise not a boss... My damage against him is only 8.4k, its the only damage I'm seeing. I would think I'd see both a 3k+ (lightning/magic) and the 8k oblivion. 5k from the AoE blast being 100% makes me think I'm only getting 3k oblivion even though it should be 8k. If it's merging into my heavy attack, it should total about 13k, if separate because two damage types I should be seeing both damages, Right?

Necrotech_Master · January 17

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

I'm running a unique build with Knight Slayer as a backup/secondary set. The predacessor staff was a Flame Staff, averaging 4k damage per heavy attack, and applying the 12k burn from Tri Focus. Current Build with Lightning Staff Knight Slayer deals 5k to all enemies around target and 7k to the target. Random mobs in Craglorn. About 8.4k on tough targets, 2.7m health. Either I'm not seeing the oblivion damage, or it's not working, or it's limiting my heavy attack damage or something.

your numbers seem about right for normal heavy attacks

most mobs in craglorn have closer to 60k+ hp in overland, so knight slayer would be adding about 6000+ dmg (which cannot crit)

in your example 2.7 mil hp implies a boss, so it would be getting the full 8k dmg from knight slayer if you had the effect active

i dont know exactly how your build looks but saying its "backup/secondary" implies your trying to back bar it, which means the 5th piece bonus wont be active on your front bar

No, my use of "secondary set" means I exchange it when I need to. Toon's a healer so I swap shoulders for Chokethorn when I need to dish more healing, which removes my 5th KS. It's always active on both bars.
My question is mostly why I'm not seeing the damage?
I spam the heavy attack against that guy in that camp with 2.7m health... He's not a real boss, just a guy with insanely high health and just a little more damage than normies, and named, but otherwise not a boss... My damage against him is only 8.4k, its the only damage I'm seeing. I would think I'd see both a 3k+ (lightning/magic) and the 8k oblivion. 5k from the AoE blast being 100% makes me think I'm only getting 3k oblivion even though it should be 8k. If it's merging into my heavy attack, it should total about 13k, if separate because two damage types I should be seeing both damages, Right?

the dmg is calculated separately because the oblivion cannot crit but your normal HA can crit, you should in fact see 2 numbers when hitting the enemy, one being a flat 8000 from knight slayer

if thats how your running your build, personally i would not recommend knight slayer for that as it wont add as much to pve, if you used sergeant as a backup set your HAs could probably do double the dmg you would be getting with knight slayer when you have empower

knight slayer also requires a "fully charged heavy attack" releasing the attack early or doing a "medium" attack would not even proc knight slayer

your normal heavy attack dmg is still scaled on your dmg stats, and subject to being reduced by enemy resistances

its hard to tell exactly whats going on without seeing whats happening

KaironBlackbard · January 19

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Typical_Tim wrote: »

When will this set be adjusted to not include 12+ man zergs all with 40k+ health using knightslayer to kill people in pvp? And if not then what is the counter to this?

I can almost guarantee you that there are not coordinated 12 man zergs using this set. Its a pretty niche set, and you are not going to get maximum damage from this set under most ordinary combat conditions. It pops up in my death recap maybe once every few months, if that often.

it is very niche, though the "maximum" dmg doesnt really matter for pvp since its a fixed 8% hp dmg on hit

in a vacuum a single person using it you might not notice it though with heals going on, but theoretically you could have 12 people running it which if they hit you at the same time would be 96% of your max hp regardless of what your health or resists were

i agree that its highly unlikely any 12 man would be running that though, as it would be way too single target focused unless they wanted to be able to nuke troll tanks

Does it work with greatswords or lightning staves aoe effects?

no, only the target of the heavy attack

the dmg in the splash is provided by passives, not the HA itself

so if you looked at a log your target would get "heavy attack (lightning)" but the aoe targets getting splash would get targeted by "trifocus"

I'm running a unique build with Knight Slayer as a backup/secondary set. The predacessor staff was a Flame Staff, averaging 4k damage per heavy attack, and applying the 12k burn from Tri Focus. Current Build with Lightning Staff Knight Slayer deals 5k to all enemies around target and 7k to the target. Random mobs in Craglorn. About 8.4k on tough targets, 2.7m health. Either I'm not seeing the oblivion damage, or it's not working, or it's limiting my heavy attack damage or something.

your numbers seem about right for normal heavy attacks

most mobs in craglorn have closer to 60k+ hp in overland, so knight slayer would be adding about 6000+ dmg (which cannot crit)

in your example 2.7 mil hp implies a boss, so it would be getting the full 8k dmg from knight slayer if you had the effect active

i dont know exactly how your build looks but saying its "backup/secondary" implies your trying to back bar it, which means the 5th piece bonus wont be active on your front bar

No, my use of "secondary set" means I exchange it when I need to. Toon's a healer so I swap shoulders for Chokethorn when I need to dish more healing, which removes my 5th KS. It's always active on both bars.
My question is mostly why I'm not seeing the damage?
I spam the heavy attack against that guy in that camp with 2.7m health... He's not a real boss, just a guy with insanely high health and just a little more damage than normies, and named, but otherwise not a boss... My damage against him is only 8.4k, its the only damage I'm seeing. I would think I'd see both a 3k+ (lightning/magic) and the 8k oblivion. 5k from the AoE blast being 100% makes me think I'm only getting 3k oblivion even though it should be 8k. If it's merging into my heavy attack, it should total about 13k, if separate because two damage types I should be seeing both damages, Right?

the dmg is calculated separately because the oblivion cannot crit but your normal HA can crit, you should in fact see 2 numbers when hitting the enemy, one being a flat 8000 from knight slayer

if thats how your running your build, personally i would not recommend knight slayer for that as it wont add as much to pve, if you used sergeant as a backup set your HAs could probably do double the dmg you would be getting with knight slayer when you have empower

knight slayer also requires a "fully charged heavy attack" releasing the attack early or doing a "medium" attack would not even proc knight slayer

your normal heavy attack dmg is still scaled on your dmg stats, and subject to being reduced by enemy resistances

its hard to tell exactly whats going on without seeing whats happening

I just hold down the click and the toon spams heavy attacks, I see one number of 8.4k and nothing else. When other enemies are in the blast radius, they are hit for just over 5k. I have all Destro perks maxed. I also apply the DoT morph of Weakness to Elements, the one applying all status effects every 7.5 seconds. My backbar is my damage bar that I run most of the time, my main bar is Resto with mostly healing spells and a couple buff spells, but I normally don't run it because I'm normally solo in overland. When I do dungeons, if I need to dish more healing I'll swap a piece of KS for Chokethorn so I can proc more heals.
Average health, light armor build, moderate to low damage, good healing. Spirit Mastery always slotted.
Mostly defence in Warfare tree, reducing damage taken as much as possible.
Symbiosis + Deliberation + light of Cyrodiil (main set) + High Elf = channel psijic order (aka: healing beam) to resist 50% damage (useless in PvP due to bash spam)
Still trying to determine whether Esoteric or Stormweavers is better. I can evade a lot with Stormweavers, but Esoteric makes me practically immune while I have stamina. 34.6k mag, 14.1k stam, 18.8k hp. (no food active)
Warfare: Take 10% less damage from NPCs, take 2% less martial and magic damage, take 6% less area damage (currently running reinforced until I get more CP), take 6% less DoT Damage (3%), take 6% less Single Target Damage (3%), Cutting Defence (for when I'm too busy channeling either Symbiosis or Introspection to attack, or just face tanking trash mobs. Minimal damage due to light armor build, 435 damage. I do proc Major Resolve via Hurricane, upping it to 568. I now wonder how effective that would be on my thews tank who has double the armor.) (19444 spell resist, 15814 physical resist {I honestly thought it was less}) (Hurricane: Spell Res 25392, Physical Res 21762) Then again this is on Esoteric.
Stormweavers: Spell Res 18623, Phys Res 14267. W/ Hurricane: Spell Res 24571, Phys Res 20215. (Still more than I thought it would be for a light armor build.)

JUST RETESTED IT
Heavy attack dealing 1775, 1775, 2509
When it doesn't kill it procs Knight Slayer for 5101 then 4949... apparently shalks max health decreases as they lose health? Stonefalls testing.
Appears to be working fine. Need to retest against that big guy in Craglorn, and other Craglorn mobs.
Also, because my weakest quality of it equipped is blue, it caps at 7627 oblivion damage.
I got them backwards, the 5k is my heavy attack damage, it just crit for 7.6k. The 2.5k must be the oblivion damage.
So, it's doing the oblivion before heavy attack damage, ok then.
So new list: 1775 chandps, 1775 chandps, 2509 oblivion, 5101 heavy.