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Necro bullying
johnJrant
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ZOS, when will this bullying of Necromancers in BGs finally end? I’ve been wanting to compare the passive skills of Sorcerers and Necromancers for a long time, but every time I get so frustrated that I lose all desire to have a constructive dialogue. Open your eyes and compare the passives of Necromancers and Sorcerers yourself!
I’m not even talking about active skills—though you took away a good stun from Necromancers in the last update. Where is the Necromancer's spd from passives? Where is the sustain? 200 regen from an active skill—are you joking? Where is the crit rate? Sorcerers get +1300 crit rate from passives. Where’s my stun? Sorcerers have a streak, and what does the Necromancer have? Why do Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Dragonknights deal more damage under my debuff? What am I paying money for? To be a slave to free classes? Are you out of your minds? I’m paying to play necr on BG, yet my class is the most nerfed in PvP. Where are all the annoy skills for Necromancers? Sorcerers have stupid pets (which should be disabled in BGs). Dragonknights have stupid stuns. Nightblades have stupid cloaks. What does the Necromancer have? Nothing. You've completely destroyed the class.
I’m tired of constantly humiliating myself and being nothing more than a debuff distributor. I no longer expect you to act like a responsible company and fix Necromancers. So, here’s my suggestion: if you’ve decided to bully one class, why not bully all classes equally? Take away everything useful from Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Dragonknights. Make them work as hard as Necromancers to get any meaningful bonuses. Make their bonuses so impractical for PvP that they’re impossible to use. If you want to destroy one class, destroy them all.
Alternatively, you could give Necromancers the ability to steal stats from other players in group as a reward for necrs buffs, healing, and debuffs. For example, if a Sorcerer, Nightblade, or Dragonknight attacks someone under my debuff, I could steal their spd or crit rate. This stat theft would be taken directly from them and added to me. That’s the only fair way forward after mocking Necromancers for so long.
But seriously—here’s the reality. I bought this game to play a Necromancer in PvP. This year, I bought the new chapter, mounts, crowns, and even paid for ESO+ specifically to play a Necromancer in the updated BGs, which you claimed you had been “working on for two whole years.” LOL. You even promised to buff Necromancers. LOL again.
I don’t think I need to explain how you failed on all three promises. To me, you’re liars and thieves. You owe refunds to everyone who plays a Necromancer as their main. Refund the money to those who paid for the chapter and waited for the new BG experience, only to be betrayed.
FIX NECROMANCERS! Balance them with Sorcerers. Give Necromancers everything Sorcerers have—and more. We’ve paid for it. and dont send youre stuped email "why you not get + in that month?" for me before fix necr. what is that? I paid enough, and in return I got only mockery of the class I play for and the cheapest upgrade pvp in the history. You've been working on this for two years, seriously? In PVE, you do 10 times more in one year.
I’m not even talking about active skills—though you took away a good stun from Necromancers in the last update. Where is the Necromancer's spd from passives? Where is the sustain? 200 regen from an active skill—are you joking? Where is the crit rate? Sorcerers get +1300 crit rate from passives. Where’s my stun? Sorcerers have a streak, and what does the Necromancer have? Why do Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Dragonknights deal more damage under my debuff? What am I paying money for? To be a slave to free classes? Are you out of your minds? I’m paying to play necr on BG, yet my class is the most nerfed in PvP. Where are all the annoy skills for Necromancers? Sorcerers have stupid pets (which should be disabled in BGs). Dragonknights have stupid stuns. Nightblades have stupid cloaks. What does the Necromancer have? Nothing. You've completely destroyed the class.
I’m tired of constantly humiliating myself and being nothing more than a debuff distributor. I no longer expect you to act like a responsible company and fix Necromancers. So, here’s my suggestion: if you’ve decided to bully one class, why not bully all classes equally? Take away everything useful from Sorcerers, Nightblades, and Dragonknights. Make them work as hard as Necromancers to get any meaningful bonuses. Make their bonuses so impractical for PvP that they’re impossible to use. If you want to destroy one class, destroy them all.
Alternatively, you could give Necromancers the ability to steal stats from other players in group as a reward for necrs buffs, healing, and debuffs. For example, if a Sorcerer, Nightblade, or Dragonknight attacks someone under my debuff, I could steal their spd or crit rate. This stat theft would be taken directly from them and added to me. That’s the only fair way forward after mocking Necromancers for so long.
But seriously—here’s the reality. I bought this game to play a Necromancer in PvP. This year, I bought the new chapter, mounts, crowns, and even paid for ESO+ specifically to play a Necromancer in the updated BGs, which you claimed you had been “working on for two whole years.” LOL. You even promised to buff Necromancers. LOL again.
I don’t think I need to explain how you failed on all three promises. To me, you’re liars and thieves. You owe refunds to everyone who plays a Necromancer as their main. Refund the money to those who paid for the chapter and waited for the new BG experience, only to be betrayed.
FIX NECROMANCERS! Balance them with Sorcerers. Give Necromancers everything Sorcerers have—and more. We’ve paid for it. and dont send youre stuped email "why you not get + in that month?" for me before fix necr. what is that? I paid enough, and in return I got only mockery of the class I play for and the cheapest upgrade pvp in the history. You've been working on this for two years, seriously? In PVE, you do 10 times more in one year.
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johnJrant✭✭✭Okay, I'll give you some real suggestions for improving the necromancer. But if at least the first point is missing in the next update, my rage will have no limit.
1. Deaden Pain - Major Protection need work when skill on panel (it is better if on any panel). what would necromancers be able to replace them Revealing Flare
2. Blighted Blastbones - i whant so that it would instantly fly straight to the target without taking into account the collision. But I will be satisfied with a twofold increase in speed and guidance speed, which is more important. More problem that pet not pet. set dont see necr pet like pet but all other game think its pet, its problem you need chose pet it or not.
3. Resistant Flesh - cut debuff from that skill (what id that, debuff on self hill). add healing to the target in time when eating a corpse. or make that in second morf instead of healing the second goal.
4. Expunge and Modify - replace the withdrawal of debuffs with the filling of resources by analogy with the NB. The necromancer has nothing to fill his resources with. Do you suggest, in the absence, to go to the opponents and ask them to put debuffs on you?
5. Ghostly Embrace - return all debuffs and stan from the previous patch, but leave the new damage.
6. Flame Skull - copy cast animation (not skull animation) from scribing solo sole. morf need get damage tipe from guns. Skill need some debuff
7. Skeletal Mage - buff when a skill is found on any panel. mabe in only one morph
8. Shocking Siphon - buff when a skill is found on any panel. mabe in only one morph
8. All self buffs from skills like "While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%" they should work when finding a skill on any panel.
passive next
9. Curative Curse - your healing done is increased by 6%. without conditions
10. Near-Death Experience - While you have a Living Death ability slotted at any panel +10% to sustaine a larger resource
11. Death Gleaning - +15% sustane mana+stamina without conditions like sorca have. (This is one of the most mandatory points)
12. Undead Confederate - The buff should be given when the listed skills are found on any panel.
13. Rapid Rot - when you have a bow and a fire staff in your crayfish, let the bonus remain as it is. And on the rest of the weapon, let it increase the bonuses from the weapon. For example, by a factor of 1.5, the strength of the weapon from the sword will increase. (This will probably be the most controversial point.)
WOW I have met the beautiful 13 points. 13 points to stop infuriating necromancers.1 -
johnJrant✭✭✭oh not 13, I numbered it badly.
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler I ask the development team to pay close attention to these 14 points and implement the first one as soon as possible. He will definitely not upset the balance, and the life of necromancers will become at least a little easier.
and believe me, I understand your problem. I understand that Sorka and nb will start crying and suffering. But let's face it. Everything I've suggested just levels the odds. Sorcha's current dominance over the necromancer in passive skills is simply colossal. You can't keep leaving the necromancer so nerfed and pretending that everything is fine.0 -
johnJrant✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler I really hope to see the first point in 17:00 UTC
But let's move on to a more controversial but nevertheless necessary change to balance the necromancer.
1. Shocking Siphon/Restoring Tether - It would be ideal for me if these skills would work across an area or at a target with reinforcement from corpses, rather than through a line. I understand that this is likely to cause resentment among the pve players. But guys, these skills are very difficult to implement in pvp. The options can be counted on the fingers and they will all be difficult and boring. Very difficult. But if someone from the development team shows on the stream how they implement them, for example, in BG 4x4, while remaining in the first place in K/D, I will be ready to change my mind.
2. Сrit reit. The necromancer suffers from a lack of crit rating. Some other classes suffer from this, but I'm talking about the necromancer. The best way out of this situation, I see the end of Sorka's monopoly on Minor Prophecy. Accordingly, I propose to rework necr Death Knell by analogy Exploitation from sorc. This will not only increase the necromancer's crit rating, but also give it to the team when there is no sorca. I suggest doing the same with Arc and NB.
But where were you guys looking? +10% per skill when the opponent's health is below 25% or +1300 constant. Is it a balance?
3. The necromancer has a mobility problem. One of the most difficult classes. Fighting with Sorka and NB is all nerves. They have better passivation anyway, but here we are faced with the lack of class mobility tools.
pve players again probably take offense at me. But you've already completely messed up with Grave Grasp. Why not completely rework this skill into a mobility tool. It will be ideal if, by analogy with sorka. And it's cheaper for you, just to make a ghost animation. Frosty and bleeding damage. And the control. Everything is as it should be.
4. There is still a problem with the power of the weapon. As I wrote above. I see her solution in rework Rapid Rot.
+15% to the type of damage depending on the equipped weapon.
For example:
Mace - physical damage
Sword/Axe - Bleeding damage
Dagger - poisonous/pathogenic damage
Thunder Staff - Direct/Electric Damage
Fiery - periodic/fiery
Frosty - straight/frosty
With these changes, the necromancer will be completely shielded from the imbalance from Sorca. And I don't think at all that these changes will make him stronger than sorca.
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johnJrant✭✭✭[snip] We paid money for this class. do your job for you and suggest how to fix what you've messed up. And you spit in the face and can't give necromancers an absolute trifle. It's just disgusting. Your sorc is disgusting. Your NB is disgusting.
You were asked to give the necromancers an absolute trifle after all that time you bullied this class, you just gave a about it. What to expect in the next update, even more bonuses for the sorc? Yes Kevin? Sorc and NB have very few advantages, you need to give them even more? Kevin how many new bonus you give to sorc in next updete? How about making them streak and invisibility even cheaper. Why not make them free? Add more weapon power and sustain to these poor bunnies. Why not, these are the offended and deprived classes, they need more bonuses.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 30 December 2024 19:351 -
johnJrant✭✭✭
[snip] Okay. Explain such a thing to me then @ZOS_Kevin. Why do I see my damage in 1 kk on the BG summary and 2.4 kk on the CM?
[snip] But this is not a question of balance or improvement. This is a question about non-working mechanics. Why the hell would my class, being so nerf up, still not be able to see its honest damage?
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 30 December 2024 19:363 -
johnJrant✭✭✭NB from scren kill 4 dude. why he get 6k point and necr who kill all on last plays? To hell your NB. And sorc too. And Dk is there too. Compared to the necromancer, these are all cheaters. If you lose to a necromancer, then you're just a noob. This class doesn't have anything useful right now, it's just naked.1
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silentseashoreSoul Shriven
I think the scoreboard doesn't account for shielded damage.
[snip] Okay. Explain such a thing to me then @ZOS_Kevin. Why do I see my damage in 1 kk on the BG summary and 2.4 kk on the CM?
[snip] But this is not a question of balance or improvement. This is a question about non-working mechanics. Why the hell would my class, being so nerf up, still not be able to see its honest damage?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 30 December 2024 19:370 -
johnJrant✭✭✭silentseashore wrote: »I think the scoreboard doesn't account for shielded damage.
I didn't even think about shields. There's a major problem in the skeleton, it doesn't count, but it does a lot of damage. And specifically in this battle, the damage to the pet i think. because usually when there is 1kk on the BG scoreboard, I have 1.5-1.7 real ones0 -
johnJrant✭✭✭The question was rather rhetorical about the scoreboard. Everyone knows everything, for what reasons and what damage is not taken into account. And it has been known for a long time. Just as it has long been known that the necromancer has problems, and Sorka is imbalanced.
In this whole line, only my suggestions for improvement are new, and they are not new and not all of mine. And everything else has been known for a long time. You don't need to assemble five groups of analysts to understand basic things. It is enough to open passive skills and compare them. after that, everything will be clear. So it's more of a cry of despair. I'm too stubborn to get off the necromancer.Edited by johnJrant on 17 December 2024 23:500 -
johnJrant✭✭✭Ask any pvp player which class is the worst in pvp, they will say necromancer. Open the Cyrodiil table and you will find 2-3 necromancers. Open the top BG and you will find only one necromancer, that's me(There is another one and he is better than me, but I have not seen him in the top.) . How else can I show you that you ruined this class?
You have literally made necromancers an endangered species in your virtual world.0 -
johnJrant✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin When will you come and answer something in this line? If you think that I will stop writing here, then in vain. I want to play necromancer normally and the annual letter has not answered anything good yet. We need a normal necromancer balance.
Kevin, what other class has to make a corpse for themselves to be treated? This is despite all the other disadvantages. Kevin this week, from the very first day, everyone on BG has a trend for a full backhill. Not to mention the warden. Why should only necromancers create a corpse for themselves? *** nonsense.
Kevin, go into this topic and tell us when we can get a normal necromancer. No sustain, no spell power, no crit, and let's first look for a corpse on the BG map to heal. it's take extra time to aim at this corpse when other people are already hill. What the *** is this nonsense?Edited by johnJrant on 19 December 2024 18:230 -
johnJrant✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin It's quieter here than in my cemeteries. How about we say something about a necromancer, Kevin?
While you're silent, let's compare some of Sorc and necromancer's skills.
Self-hill - Sorca get shild with it and Necr get what Kevin? right Necr get deduff not shild. Very fair.
Resource Bay - in the topic nearly, they complain about what a bad way of flooding resources from sorc. But the necromancer doesn't have one.
Time out heall - No corpses, no heall for a necromancer. Go look for the corpse, aim at it, don't leave it. Oh, you're not dead yet? Well, Sorc still has a shield for healing, not a debuff.
Kevin, when will it be possible to get some kind of answer about necromancer? It annoys me.1 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭Okay, let me put this to bed before anymore spamming turns this thread into a literal echo chamber. Necromancer is what it is. People have been screaming from the rooftops about the problems with this class for a little over three years that I’ve observed.
No one is listening.
It doesn’t matter how many threads we post or how many times we callout Kevin or any other dev by name. Necro isn’t getting fixed. You’re left with two options. One, accept that you’ve got to be ten times as sweaty as every other class to get the same results. Or two, roll a DK/NB/Sorc with the rest of us and drop Necro right back into the grave from whence it came.2 -
johnJrant✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Okay, let me put this to bed before anymore spamming turns this thread into a literal echo chamber. Necromancer is what it is. People have been screaming from the rooftops about the problems with this class for a little over three years that I’ve observed.
No one is listening.
It doesn’t matter how many threads we post or how many times we callout Kevin or any other dev by name. Necro isn’t getting fixed. You’re left with two options. One, accept that you’ve got to be ten times as sweaty as every other class to get the same results. Or two, roll a DK/NB/Sorc with the rest of us and drop Necro right back into the grave from whence it came.
Oh, no. They've got the wrong necromancer. The topic will not be closed)
The first is your advice, well, I had to follow it, what to do. There are twinks too, you have to take a break from necras somehow. But as for the twink. I've been following the game since the beginning, but I bought it when the necromancer appeared. And here it's basically not even that I bought it for a necromancer at once with the entire collection of dls and so on. It's not even that when I'm fully focused on pvp, I try not to forget about role-playing, but I have him as a necromancer.
The main thing with the twinkies is that Necromancer has 6 equipment slots purchased immediately with the game. Skill points that require spending N time on a boring activity or another NN money to avoid it. Upgraded branches of craft and psijics are the same time. That's I have twink, of course, but I can't switch to any of them as a really basic character.
And just as there are no words about fix the necromancer, there are no words about compensation either. I'm exp sorka right now. But what to do? (And the portals in oblivion are empty now. It's also a gift to up the twink like before.)
And most importantly, the class can be fix. At least up to the ARC level. So I would like to know at least the reasons for such an obvious dislike of necromancers on the part of developers. Because it was the players who voted for this class, and not the ZOS themselves who decided to add it? I don't understand the reasons for such an obvious sabotage of the class. Well, I just can't believe that the developers don't see what the problems are and how to fix them. Every update is some kind of mockery.0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
Love these. Feels like necro needs more ways to consume corpses en-masse outside of the ult gen skill, which I shouldn't have to run. Allowing other skills like Resistant Flesh to consume a corpse for a HoT (and, hopefully, an increase to the armor buff duration would be nice) would go a long way towards making the class feel less clunky. There are corpses everywhere but if I don't slot one skill in particular, they're just kinda...there.Okay, I'll give you some real suggestions for improving the necromancer. But if at least the first point is missing in the next update, my rage will have no limit.
1. Deaden Pain - Major Protection need work when skill on panel (it is better if on any panel). what would necromancers be able to replace them Revealing Flare
2. Blighted Blastbones - i whant so that it would instantly fly straight to the target without taking into account the collision. But I will be satisfied with a twofold increase in speed and guidance speed, which is more important. More problem that pet not pet. set dont see necr pet like pet but all other game think its pet, its problem you need chose pet it or not.
3. Resistant Flesh - cut debuff from that skill (what id that, debuff on self hill). add healing to the target in time when eating a corpse. or make that in second morf instead of healing the second goal.
4. Expunge and Modify - replace the withdrawal of debuffs with the filling of resources by analogy with the NB. The necromancer has nothing to fill his resources with. Do you suggest, in the absence, to go to the opponents and ask them to put debuffs on you?
5. Ghostly Embrace - return all debuffs and stan from the previous patch, but leave the new damage.
6. Flame Skull - copy cast animation (not skull animation) from scribing solo sole. morf need get damage tipe from guns. Skill need some debuff
7. Skeletal Mage - buff when a skill is found on any panel. mabe in only one morph
8. Shocking Siphon - buff when a skill is found on any panel. mabe in only one morph
8. All self buffs from skills like "While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%" they should work when finding a skill on any panel.
passive next
9. Curative Curse - your healing done is increased by 6%. without conditions
10. Near-Death Experience - While you have a Living Death ability slotted at any panel +10% to sustaine a larger resource
11. Death Gleaning - +15% sustane mana+stamina without conditions like sorca have. (This is one of the most mandatory points)
12. Undead Confederate - The buff should be given when the listed skills are found on any panel.
13. Rapid Rot - when you have a bow and a fire staff in your crayfish, let the bonus remain as it is. And on the rest of the weapon, let it increase the bonuses from the weapon. For example, by a factor of 1.5, the strength of the weapon from the sword will increase. (This will probably be the most controversial point.)
WOW I have met the beautiful 13 points. 13 points to stop infuriating necromancers.
4. Not sure what you mean byu this, but Expunge/Modify would be cool if they transferred the debuffs from the necromancer to the next target hit, maybe. Perhaps it should also be 4 cleansed baseline - there are so many more debuffs these days. Unsure what the morph effect for the other one would be, though, since it's current morph is going from 2->4 cleanses.
5. Assuming this is Grave Grasp. The skill is SO, SO slow, my god. People are so zoomy these days, it (along with Totem) need a speed up somehow. And it's ground-targetted so would be a pain to land anyway, especially if the necro is trying to get one effect or the other in particular - what if I need a stun but I'm fighting a melee opponent? The stun is on the 3rd circle, making it useless. It *looks* like a nice skill with lots of debuffs but in practice is bad because it's not reliable.
8. Yes, should def work just when slotted. Also, the necro has to target a corpse to use siphon skills/corpse consume ones for some reason - not sure why that is but it'd be nice if it was just auto-consume. having to target a corpse to use a particular skill (especailyl when other corpse-consume skills don't have the same limitation) is really bad.
I really enjoy necro but it feels like the corpse consume mechanic never really got fleshed out like it should've, or had enough ways to use the resource. A lot of the skills are nice on paper, but in practice not useful (grave grasp, remote totem). The passives, too, seem like they've been left behind compared to other class passives.
It really kills the class fantasy unfortunately
I love my necromancer character but it feels like we've fallen behind, not necessarily out of some deep flaw, but from a bunch of smaller issues piling up. Like remote totem - I'd be happy if it gave the necro minor prot on cast and the windup was 1 sec instead of 2. Nice CC, good debuff, but a benefit of the skill - minor prot - is nullified by the design of a morph (adding range). It just conflicts with itself. The other morph with the synergy could just be a DoT or something. Heck knows I'd love to see necro, a rot-themed archetype, get some more accessible DoTs. 1 -
i11ionward✭✭✭✭Some Necromancer skills are just weak or clunky — this has been mentioned multiple times on the forum. However, I want to focus specifically on the corpse mechanics for the Necromancer.
In my PvP build, I have four skills with corpse generation effects (Blighted Blastbones, Skeletal Archer, Spirit Guardian, Summoner's Armor) but my build doesn’t include any corpse consuming abilities. Frankly, I feel a bit shortchanged by this. What I mean is that while my skills generate corpses, I have no way to utilize this mechanic, and the game offers no compensation for this unused potential.Yes, I could use the Bitter Harvest skill in my build, this skill is probably the only good corpse consumer for PvP, but it is not always needed, and sometimes there is no space for it on a bar.
For example, consider the Betty Netch skill of the Warden class. This ability removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. However, if you don’t currently have a negative effect, the skill doesn’t lose its value — it instead rewards you with a 5% damage boost.
Why not implement a similar compensation mechanic for Necromancers when corpses go unused? For instance, this could take the form of a passive ability:- If a corpse within radius X expires without being used, you gain effect Y. Effect Y could stack up to Z times.
- When using a skill from the X skill line, if corpses are nearby, you gain effect Y for Z seconds per corpse.
What interests me most is that great corpse consumption mechanics already exist in the form of the Corpseburster set and the Necro Class Mastery Signature Script. I’d love to see more of these types of mechanics become part of the Necromancer’s class skill set.0 -
Afterip✭✭✭
I also had a problem with corpse consuming skill, there was no place for it. And I discovered that Blood Sacrifice can consume corpses and give me ultimate points from Corpse Consumption passive. Thus, I solved 2 problems at once: generating ultimate points from corpses and healing myself first if there is a heavy wounded ally near to me (but he will receive healing too).i11ionward wrote: »...
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