Need advice for beginner in PvP

sltrs1 · January 1

Hello.
I'm pretty much casual player, which means I probably won't go further than daily bg and monthly Cyrodil, but I' don't want to miss big chunk of content offered by PvP.
So, because if that, I'm looking for pretty specific build. I need Oakensoul stamina sorc build. PvP is too dynamic to keep track on both bars, so that I decided I'd better go Oakensoul.
I haven't managed to find much info on PvP, but summing up all I found, following sets are used on PvP: Daedric Trickery, Tarnished Nightmare, Balorgh monster set, Trainee, New Moon Acolyte, Plaguebreak, Heartland Conqueror and 5pc Shattered Fate. So, which two should I pick?
Also have no idea, which weapon should pick: bow or 2hand? And which poison should I pick?

loosej · January 1

I'd say take one defensive and one offensive. Mara's Balm and Rallying Cry are strong defensive options. Offense you can choose what seems most fun.

Try to go with 3 heavy reinforced on head, chest and legs. Three medium and one light on the small armor pieces if possible.

Aim for around 30k health (with food active).

Run recovery food (Jewels of Misrule for example).

Weapon depends what playstyle you want, if you're new I'd go with ranged, makes things a bit easier.

BXR_Lonestar · January 1

sltrs1 wrote: »

Hello.
I'm pretty much casual player, which means I probably won't go further than daily bg and monthly Cyrodil, but I' don't want to miss big chunk of content offered by PvP.
So, because if that, I'm looking for pretty specific build. I need Oakensoul stamina sorc build. PvP is too dynamic to keep track on both bars, so that I decided I'd better go Oakensoul.
I haven't managed to find much info on PvP, but summing up all I found, following sets are used on PvP: Daedric Trickery, Tarnished Nightmare, Balorgh monster set, Trainee, New Moon Acolyte, Plaguebreak, Heartland Conqueror and 5pc Shattered Fate. So, which two should I pick?
Also have no idea, which weapon should pick: bow or 2hand? And which poison should I pick?

Don't take this personally, but I would focus less on your build and more on learning how not to be a liability in PVP first. You can have a strong build, but if you don't know how to keep yourself out of bad position, you can still be a liability for your team and get everyone killed. For instance, you may be meaning well trying to stand on the ram at the front door, but if you have less than 30k HP and less than 25k resistances, you should not be stacking on the ram, or close to any other player because any heady PVP player will pick you out, target you, and kill you in the crowd, which is going to proc vicious death and kill everyone who is fighting by your side. New players are certainly welcome in PVP, but this is one of the things people hate the most - getting blown up by a squishy player who is out of position.

Outside of that, the next biggest way you can help in the fight and which really doesn't require any specialized build is if you learn to seige. In the campaign I play, my alliance is routinely outnumbered, and unless we're playing as a fully comped ball group, siege will make or break us. What this means for you is:

1. When taking a keep, don't be a liability by being in a position that can get others killed.
2. If you are on the ram, please hold block and be ready to cast your self-heal
3. If you are not on the ram, you can put up at least 2 balistas (the kind that cost 1800 AP and do 2k damage to walls and doors) and run between the two of them firing at the same target everyone else is hitting. I can personally run 4 if I can place them right, but if you don't have AP to burn, two is minimum. There isn't any reason why a group of 10 can't hit the siege limit on most keeps and outposts.
4. If you are working to take a keep and you have breached the outer wall and you are working on the inner keep, and your team is facing heavy resistance, go up on the outer wall and use meatbags to countersiege the enemy's countersiege. This is a HUGE help and you will absolutely make a huge impact if you do this.
5. If you are instead defending a keep, countersieging from the outer wall is obvious, but what is even more important is learning how to set up a proper kill box. When the door/wall hits 50%, you should be setting up siege on the inside of the castle and targeting the wall/door that is being breached. Here, you will use meatbags, fire balistas, lightning balistas, scatter shots, oils, coldfire balistas - basically anything but trebuchets (too slow) and the 1800 AP balistas built for breaching walls and doors. Set up 2-3 of your siege of choice and just keep firing your siege at the breach as fast as you can until they have charged in or the wall/door has been repaired.
6. If they make it to the inner keep, set up oils (3x2) on the grate over the door, and all along the balcony and dump them like crazy. If the inner door reaches 50%, redeploy those oils to be directed inside the keep (don't overlook the flat spots on the stair cases), or you can set up fire balistas and meatbags to aim at the front flag, and keep up the fire intensity.

If you learn to do all this stuff without overthinking too much or without being told to, you will be a welcome sight on the battlefield regardless of build, and it is a great way to get involved in some of the major fights that make cyrodil so much fun to play.

Having a build you are comfortable with playing will only enhance your PVP experience, but the things I listed above are all things newer PVP players can do regardless of skill level, and you have no idea how much of a help you will actually be to the rest of your team.

Just my 2 cents. I know it is not really "build" help, but these are definitely tips that will help improve your pvp experience (at least in cyrodil).

DaniimalsSF · January 1

I consider myself a casual player, but I’m focused on PvP and have a good understanding of most all the components. I’m also a Sorc main and prefer stam.

First advice is that there are many ways to play PvP. So try them all or if you know what you enjoy, do it and don’t worry about what others want you to do. Do you want to get kills? Play objectives? Fight one on one? Support a group? Troll other players? Melee or ranged? Or even just Zerg?

Build wise I like to start out with lots of defense and sustain, then ramp up damage as I figure out how to best use a build. Others do the opposite. Oakensoul is great for simplifying things and eliminates the struggle of bar swapping with Cyrodill lag.

I’ve struggled to find many Oakensoul builds for stamsorc that I like. I’ve had some fun with a support bow build. Powerful assault, chokethorn monster set, 3 piece potentates, 1 trainee, and Oakensoul. Skills: streak, bombard, echoing vigor, matriarch, one flex spot, and Negate ultimate. I’ve used it in 8v8 BGs and Cyro. Definitely not a solo build and don’t expect a lot of kills, but you can have a big impact on groups. You will still get rolled by ballgroups, but can probably at least annoy them.

I’ve had some fun on a dual wielding build using Balorg monster, Deadric trickery, 1 trainee, and 3 piece agility. Skills: streak, crystal weapon, vigor, bound armaments, dawn breaker ultimate, and one flex spot. Definitely not a meta setup, but i always end up feeling stam sorc lacks healing on Oakensoul builds. That’s why I’m using daedric trickery.

Hope this helps. Let me know any questions.

sltrs1 · January 2

Thanks for complex explanations, that will come handy.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Don't take this personally, but I would focus less on your build and more on learning how not to be a liability in PVP first.

That's just two sides of the coin. Understanding of PVP basics will come with practice, which is required just time investment. But when I try to PVP in my PVE build, I mostly end up lying dead and waiting for respawn. I can't learn when I can't do anything. I don't expect that proper build will do the job in my stead, but it definitely allow me to learn more effectively. Creating a build requires me to get 12 pieces of gear, which is will take a lot of gold and transmute crystals, and that's not the resources I have in excess. I can't afford myself experiment and change gear often to find working combination. That's why I'm asking for advice about build.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

but if you have less than 30k HP and less than 25k resistancess

Is it possible to achieve such numbers on dd, or I should go for full tank build to get that?

Also, maybe there's some resource that specializes on PVP?

Turtle_Bot · January 2

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
I use this site for preliminary testing of builds that I am theorycrafting. While it won't do much for how the build feels to play (something that can only really be done in game), it does help ensure certain setups I am thinking about building can reach the desired baseline of stats.

As for 30k health + 25k resistances specifically, most builds running 2-3 pieces of heavy armor (3-4 medium and 1 light) with jewels of misrule food, 1 piece of trainee (for the health buff), max undaunted passives and max armor passives can reach 30k health with just 30 attribute points into health (no champion points). This setup will also reach 24k physical armor and almost 25k spell armor.
Note: that this setup is without a proper tank set equipped (such a set will typically give more health, armor or other mitigation values).
Note2: this setup reaches ~35k health with 64 attribute points into health.

As a DD in PvP, you aren't looking for maximum sustained damage, but rather a repeatable burst of damage, with some small pressure to help keep some pressure on the target allowing an opportunity for the burst of damage to get a kill.
To achieve this you don't need 64 points into stamina or magicka (outside of specific builds) since you aren't trying to maintain 100k+ DPS for 2-5 minutes straight, this allows a lot more attribute points to be added to health instead.

For sorc, it's rough trying to make Oakensoul work, since there's not much density (various bonus effects/buffs/debuffs) in the class skills, especially on skills that don't double up on the buffs Oakensoul already grants. I would maybe try Torc of the last Ayleid king instead, yes it means bar swapping, but that mythic disables all other set bonuses while giving you a good bunch of stats, meaning you don't need to focus on what your sets do and can instead focus on the skills and PvP combat instead.

If I had to suggest a build for oakensoul, I would probably recommend the following for sorc:
Mara's Balm (chest/legs/head/2 jewelry), Oakensoul (ring), 1 piece trainee (for the health) and look into maybe a crafted set that is both offensive and defensive (something like orders wrath or daedric trickery). The advantage of a crafted set is that it can fill out the remaining armor weights for max undaunted passives.
Skills is where this becomes very difficult on sorc, but I'd go with streak (stun + mobility) Bound Armaments/snipe ("burst" damage), Vigor (heal over time + minor resolve) energy overload (ultimate that has some sustain) and 2 scribing skills to round out the build (1 burst heal and 1 spammable damage skill) Heal soul is probably one of the best uses for wield soul (with resource return + vitality), but it's also one of the only spammable scribing skills (the other being shield throw in the sword and shield line). If you don't want to run sword and shield, then you could run silver shards (fighters guild skill) and heal soul, but then you are missing breach. If you do run sword and shield, shield throw (physical damage, class script, breach) is a solid choice to pair with heal soul.

Veinblood1965 · January 2

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

sltrs1 wrote: »

Hello.
I'm pretty much casual player, which means I probably won't go further than daily bg and monthly Cyrodil, but I' don't want to miss big chunk of content offered by PvP.
So, because if that, I'm looking for pretty specific build. I need Oakensoul stamina sorc build. PvP is too dynamic to keep track on both bars, so that I decided I'd better go Oakensoul.
I haven't managed to find much info on PvP, but summing up all I found, following sets are used on PvP: Daedric Trickery, Tarnished Nightmare, Balorgh monster set, Trainee, New Moon Acolyte, Plaguebreak, Heartland Conqueror and 5pc Shattered Fate. So, which two should I pick?
Also have no idea, which weapon should pick: bow or 2hand? And which poison should I pick?

Don't take this personally, but I would focus less on your build and more on learning how not to be a liability in PVP first. You can have a strong build, but if you don't know how to keep yourself out of bad position, you can still be a liability for your team and get everyone killed. For instance, you may be meaning well trying to stand on the ram at the front door, but if you have less than 30k HP and less than 25k resistances, you should not be stacking on the ram, or close to any other player because any heady PVP player will pick you out, target you, and kill you in the crowd, which is going to proc vicious death and kill everyone who is fighting by your side. New players are certainly welcome in PVP, but this is one of the things people hate the most - getting blown up by a squishy player who is out of position.

Outside of that, the next biggest way you can help in the fight and which really doesn't require any specialized build is if you learn to seige. In the campaign I play, my alliance is routinely outnumbered, and unless we're playing as a fully comped ball group, siege will make or break us. What this means for you is:

1. When taking a keep, don't be a liability by being in a position that can get others killed.
2. If you are on the ram, please hold block and be ready to cast your self-heal
3. If you are not on the ram, you can put up at least 2 balistas (the kind that cost 1800 AP and do 2k damage to walls and doors) and run between the two of them firing at the same target everyone else is hitting. I can personally run 4 if I can place them right, but if you don't have AP to burn, two is minimum. There isn't any reason why a group of 10 can't hit the siege limit on most keeps and outposts.
4. If you are working to take a keep and you have breached the outer wall and you are working on the inner keep, and your team is facing heavy resistance, go up on the outer wall and use meatbags to countersiege the enemy's countersiege. This is a HUGE help and you will absolutely make a huge impact if you do this.
5. If you are instead defending a keep, countersieging from the outer wall is obvious, but what is even more important is learning how to set up a proper kill box. When the door/wall hits 50%, you should be setting up siege on the inside of the castle and targeting the wall/door that is being breached. Here, you will use meatbags, fire balistas, lightning balistas, scatter shots, oils, coldfire balistas - basically anything but trebuchets (too slow) and the 1800 AP balistas built for breaching walls and doors. Set up 2-3 of your siege of choice and just keep firing your siege at the breach as fast as you can until they have charged in or the wall/door has been repaired.
6. If they make it to the inner keep, set up oils (3x2) on the grate over the door, and all along the balcony and dump them like crazy. If the inner door reaches 50%, redeploy those oils to be directed inside the keep (don't overlook the flat spots on the stair cases), or you can set up fire balistas and meatbags to aim at the front flag, and keep up the fire intensity.

If you learn to do all this stuff without overthinking too much or without being told to, you will be a welcome sight on the battlefield regardless of build, and it is a great way to get involved in some of the major fights that make cyrodil so much fun to play.

Having a build you are comfortable with playing will only enhance your PVP experience, but the things I listed above are all things newer PVP players can do regardless of skill level, and you have no idea how much of a help you will actually be to the rest of your team.

Just my 2 cents. I know it is not really "build" help, but these are definitely tips that will help improve your pvp experience (at least in cyrodil).

Nice reply, this should be pinned to the PVP forum.

Add to that, regardless of build just learn to be aware of your surroundings, if you get attacked and you cannot kill the other person look for obstacles, trees, pillars, rocks, etc and run around them breaking line of site(use a least one swift trait on jewellery if you can). Things like when a group is chasing you run around a corner, THEN turn right back around and run back straight into them, most of them keep going around the corner lol.

CARRY invisibility potions. This is my favorite, it restores health, makes you invis, keeps you from being stunned and adds health recovery, make it with Blue Entoloma, Columbine and Namira's Rot. Once you do the around the corner trick hit the potion.

Not saying builds do not matter, they do but combine this with what Lonestar said and you'll be a huge asset to any group. Also if you are doing to be running BG's there's a set there that heals all your group members within 7 meters of you for about 1200 per second when in combat. I just saw it last night. I don't know if those stack but if an entire group ran this and it does that sweet, but even if you are the only one it's pretty nice.

BXR_Lonestar · January 2

sltrs1 wrote: »

Thanks for complex explanations, that will come handy.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Don't take this personally, but I would focus less on your build and more on learning how not to be a liability in PVP first.

That's just two sides of the coin. Understanding of PVP basics will come with practice, which is required just time investment. But when I try to PVP in my PVE build, I mostly end up lying dead and waiting for respawn. I can't learn when I can't do anything. I don't expect that proper build will do the job in my stead, but it definitely allow me to learn more effectively. Creating a build requires me to get 12 pieces of gear, which is will take a lot of gold and transmute crystals, and that's not the resources I have in excess. I can't afford myself experiment and change gear often to find working combination. That's why I'm asking for advice about build.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

but if you have less than 30k HP and less than 25k resistancess

Is it possible to achieve such numbers on dd, or I should go for full tank build to get that?

Also, maybe there's some resource that specializes on PVP?

You can definitely have 30k hp and around 25k resistances as a DD. In Ball group, our DD's have a minimum of 32k hp, with it being a big plus if you can get over that mark. It's not necessarily about building tanky as much as it is knowing where you should stack your stat density, and how to get extra stat density that works in your favor. What we often do is work with one set that can be back-bar only, such as Wretched Vitality or Clever Alchemist, and pair it with a set that can be front-bar only. When using a mythic item, this allows you to have an extra piece of armor since we only have set + 1 mythic active on either bar, and we fill in that piece with 1 piece Trainee set, which gives an additional 1400 health. This piece is also usually a heavy armor piece which helps with resistances.

Stack on top of that a monster set - usually balorgs (additional spell power and penetration), and this allows us to have high health and high damage and penetration.

In terms of stats, we prefer weapon/spell power over max mag or stam, and we usually run food that gives us high recovery of the stat that we need to balance out the build.

Keep in mind though that this makes it sound a lot simpler than it really is, because to get maximum benefit from this, it helps to run even in a small group of 3-4 so you can have the extra benefit of additional buffs such as weapon/spell damage, health, armor, or recovery.

BXR_Lonestar · January 2

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

sltrs1 wrote: »

Hello.
I'm pretty much casual player, which means I probably won't go further than daily bg and monthly Cyrodil, but I' don't want to miss big chunk of content offered by PvP.
So, because if that, I'm looking for pretty specific build. I need Oakensoul stamina sorc build. PvP is too dynamic to keep track on both bars, so that I decided I'd better go Oakensoul.
I haven't managed to find much info on PvP, but summing up all I found, following sets are used on PvP: Daedric Trickery, Tarnished Nightmare, Balorgh monster set, Trainee, New Moon Acolyte, Plaguebreak, Heartland Conqueror and 5pc Shattered Fate. So, which two should I pick?
Also have no idea, which weapon should pick: bow or 2hand? And which poison should I pick?

Don't take this personally, but I would focus less on your build and more on learning how not to be a liability in PVP first. You can have a strong build, but if you don't know how to keep yourself out of bad position, you can still be a liability for your team and get everyone killed. For instance, you may be meaning well trying to stand on the ram at the front door, but if you have less than 30k HP and less than 25k resistances, you should not be stacking on the ram, or close to any other player because any heady PVP player will pick you out, target you, and kill you in the crowd, which is going to proc vicious death and kill everyone who is fighting by your side. New players are certainly welcome in PVP, but this is one of the things people hate the most - getting blown up by a squishy player who is out of position.

Outside of that, the next biggest way you can help in the fight and which really doesn't require any specialized build is if you learn to seige. In the campaign I play, my alliance is routinely outnumbered, and unless we're playing as a fully comped ball group, siege will make or break us. What this means for you is:

1. When taking a keep, don't be a liability by being in a position that can get others killed.
2. If you are on the ram, please hold block and be ready to cast your self-heal
3. If you are not on the ram, you can put up at least 2 balistas (the kind that cost 1800 AP and do 2k damage to walls and doors) and run between the two of them firing at the same target everyone else is hitting. I can personally run 4 if I can place them right, but if you don't have AP to burn, two is minimum. There isn't any reason why a group of 10 can't hit the siege limit on most keeps and outposts.
4. If you are working to take a keep and you have breached the outer wall and you are working on the inner keep, and your team is facing heavy resistance, go up on the outer wall and use meatbags to countersiege the enemy's countersiege. This is a HUGE help and you will absolutely make a huge impact if you do this.
5. If you are instead defending a keep, countersieging from the outer wall is obvious, but what is even more important is learning how to set up a proper kill box. When the door/wall hits 50%, you should be setting up siege on the inside of the castle and targeting the wall/door that is being breached. Here, you will use meatbags, fire balistas, lightning balistas, scatter shots, oils, coldfire balistas - basically anything but trebuchets (too slow) and the 1800 AP balistas built for breaching walls and doors. Set up 2-3 of your siege of choice and just keep firing your siege at the breach as fast as you can until they have charged in or the wall/door has been repaired.
6. If they make it to the inner keep, set up oils (3x2) on the grate over the door, and all along the balcony and dump them like crazy. If the inner door reaches 50%, redeploy those oils to be directed inside the keep (don't overlook the flat spots on the stair cases), or you can set up fire balistas and meatbags to aim at the front flag, and keep up the fire intensity.

If you learn to do all this stuff without overthinking too much or without being told to, you will be a welcome sight on the battlefield regardless of build, and it is a great way to get involved in some of the major fights that make cyrodil so much fun to play.

Having a build you are comfortable with playing will only enhance your PVP experience, but the things I listed above are all things newer PVP players can do regardless of skill level, and you have no idea how much of a help you will actually be to the rest of your team.

Just my 2 cents. I know it is not really "build" help, but these are definitely tips that will help improve your pvp experience (at least in cyrodil).

Nice reply, this should be pinned to the PVP forum.

Add to that, regardless of build just learn to be aware of your surroundings, if you get attacked and you cannot kill the other person look for obstacles, trees, pillars, rocks, etc and run around them breaking line of site(use a least one swift trait on jewellery if you can). Things like when a group is chasing you run around a corner, THEN turn right back around and run back straight into them, most of them keep going around the corner lol.

CARRY invisibility potions. This is my favorite, it restores health, makes you invis, keeps you from being stunned and adds health recovery, make it with Blue Entoloma, Columbine and Namira's Rot. Once you do the around the corner trick hit the potion.

Not saying builds do not matter, they do but combine this with what Lonestar said and you'll be a huge asset to any group. Also if you are doing to be running BG's there's a set there that heals all your group members within 7 meters of you for about 1200 per second when in combat. I just saw it last night. I don't know if those stack but if an entire group ran this and it does that sweet, but even if you are the only one it's pretty nice.

When we pick up new players for our guild, this is what we are trying to emphasize more than focus on builds. Its the fastest/easiest way to get people involved and for them to experience some success without exposing them to the worst experiences PVP has to offer (Getting constantly steamrolled). And my alliance is notoriously bad at sieging, so we're hoping that more emphasis on sieging will help in the long run.

El_Borracho · January 2

Be okay with dying a lot. A LOT. To the point you begin to wonder why you ever wanted to PVP.

As to builds, I would go tankier to start out so you at least have a chance to see how PVP is done... by the player killing you. I would recommend doing BGs or non-CP Cyrodiil (Ravenwatch) to start so you can see how the sets and combat work without the boost of CP.

Just to add to the others, Impen and Reinforced are the traits you want with the higher HP others have said.

Last, hate to tell you this, but its a rough world for a stam sorc in PVP, especially a 1 bar build. I run a 2 bar and its fun, but I'm also just not starting out. You'd be better off going in as an Oakensorc HA build. While they are not as good as they once were, they are still universally hated by others because they are harder to kill than other offensive builds and can kill other players.

MincMincMinc · January 2

sltrs1 wrote: »

Hello.
I'm pretty much casual player, which means I probably won't go further than daily bg and monthly Cyrodil, but I' don't want to miss big chunk of content offered by PvP.
So, because if that, I'm looking for pretty specific build. I need Oakensoul stamina sorc build. PvP is too dynamic to keep track on both bars, so that I decided I'd better go Oakensoul.
I haven't managed to find much info on PvP, but summing up all I found, following sets are used on PvP: Daedric Trickery, Tarnished Nightmare, Balorgh monster set, Trainee, New Moon Acolyte, Plaguebreak, Heartland Conqueror and 5pc Shattered Fate. So, which two should I pick?
Also have no idea, which weapon should pick: bow or 2hand? And which poison should I pick?

Being new to pvp the question is do you want to learn or just BS your way through it? If you truly want to learn stamsorc, from someone who played for 9 years I suggest doing a basic dizzy swing build. The reason being that everything has one sole purpose and you wont be confused on what to do next.

Here is a link to a build that I run as the numerically best option. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=654685

Do not try to play a one bar pvp build.....it does not work. If you have well thought out bars, there should be no confusion as to what skills to use and when. For example below I put my two hand and frost staff bar. You keep hurricane and crit surge up at all times. Either heal gets used when pressured depending if you have mag or stam. Reverse slice only gets used in execute range. Ele sus is a free debuff used before going aggressive. Streak can be used whenever for movement. Darkdeal is for sustain or to prebuff a combo. Crystal is purely for a burst combo if an enemy is a good enough player or be traded for a passive buff skill like bound armaments.

In a way pvp can be simpler as you only need to practice or think of a single burst combo. In this case Darkdeal....Ele....swap....Crystal.....Dizzy....MediumAtk(stun+crystal hit)......Dbos.......Reverse spam

Pvp can be hard for some PvE players because you cannot just setup a go to macro rotation. You must actively think of which skill is needed and when. So long as you keep hurricane up and vigor rolling you are safe to run around streaking

Right now stamsorc is one of the worst pvp classes next to templar or necro. However at the learning level what matters most is your player skill

Feel free to pm me by clicking on my profile and we can work through a build on discord or in game that is easy to setup in a day. It is literally all I do for people while bored at work.