Maintenance for the week of January 6:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Urgent check on "grouping" for SOLO BG needed
AnduinTryggva
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
Sorry the story that it is just one team filled with experts by pure random luck and the other teams with newbies in SOLO BG, I don't buy it any more given the number of imbalanced matches.
95% of matches are outragiously imbalanced in team performance. This is statistically impossible if the teams were really randomly assembled.
That one team dominates the other, I can accept because one or two more experienced players can make that difference. But having consistently matches where ONE team acts as a coordinated ball group and consistently the other being completely cannon fodder and scores with an difference of 350+ is a sign that something is NOT working properly with Solo BG and group composition.
I ask ZOS to survey this. I am certain they will find a similar statistic as me.
As a remedy I re-suggest to have a two-step group formation:
First create the pool of either eight or 16 players depending on queue (4v4 or 8v8) and only THEN distribute them randomly and ideally by some metrics indicating expert status of the player to have a similar expert group level.
95% of matches are outragiously imbalanced in team performance. This is statistically impossible if the teams were really randomly assembled.
That one team dominates the other, I can accept because one or two more experienced players can make that difference. But having consistently matches where ONE team acts as a coordinated ball group and consistently the other being completely cannon fodder and scores with an difference of 350+ is a sign that something is NOT working properly with Solo BG and group composition.
I ask ZOS to survey this. I am certain they will find a similar statistic as me.
As a remedy I re-suggest to have a two-step group formation:
First create the pool of either eight or 16 players depending on queue (4v4 or 8v8) and only THEN distribute them randomly and ideally by some metrics indicating expert status of the player to have a similar expert group level.
3
-
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭All it really takes is linking your sets/build before the match starts and if you have good players they will play off what you're bringing to the table. For instance if I'm on my sorcerer in 4 v 4 I always slot negate and let my team know I have it, so my teammates won't walk out of it thinking it's the enemies and will drop their ultimates inside it.
Or if I'm on my healer I let the group know and sometimes my teammates will even swap to builds that do more dps/play more aggressively.
Another thing is knowing who the good "sweaty" players/veterans are. If I see certain people on the opponent team I will let my group know what to look out for, and usually put an icon above their head. I will also look for the squishiest person on the enemy team and mark them as well so they can be focused down first, even with a dedicated healer that guy with 25k HP isn't going to survive burst.
Just because you solo queued doesn't mean you shouldn't try and coordinate as a group, which is what you're playing with. You have a couple minutes before the match starts, talk to your team
5 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »All it really takes is linking your sets/build before the match starts and if you have good players they will play off what you're bringing to the table. For instance if I'm on my sorcerer in 4 v 4 I always slot negate and let my team know I have it, so my teammates won't walk out of it thinking it's the enemies and will drop their ultimates inside it.
Or if I'm on my healer I let the group know and sometimes my teammates will even swap to builds that do more dps/play more aggressively.
Another thing is knowing who the good "sweaty" players/veterans are. If I see certain people on the opponent team I will let my group know what to look out for, and usually put an icon above their head. I will also look for the squishiest person on the enemy team and mark them as well so they can be focused down first, even with a dedicated healer that guy with 25k HP isn't going to survive burst.
Just because you solo queued doesn't mean you shouldn't try and coordinate as a group, which is what you're playing with. You have a couple minutes before the match starts, talk to your team
For dm with rounds you should be able to make adjustments between rounds but we are locked in combat. I have a thread open asking if this eas by design. I hope not because it removes a layer of the already thin strategy aspect of 4v4 dm.0 -
AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please consider that talking to the team does not make it a good team.
The problem starts with what you set as condition for your advice: "if you have good players"
Fact is that those "good players" are apparantly NOT randomly distributed over both teams.
Your second condition for your advice is also too often not met on one team. It starts with members on one group not listening to chat and continues to them going solo despite advicing to stay together.
It ALL boils down to the fact that teams in 95% of cases are NOT evenly matched and this should be statistically impossible if actually this all were really random.
Also take into consideration that chat is in 98% silent (apart from me). If it were only communication that makes one team so much better than the other, statistically I should have met a group where one player exactly behaves as you say. Fact is: I have never met such a team. Even in cases where my team completely smashed the other team which does happen from time to time.
I know that you are trying to help so please don't take offence of my post. It is just that I don't see how this really responds to the issue...Edited by AnduinTryggva on 27 December 2024 18:071 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭AnduinTryggva wrote: »Please consider that talking to the team does not make it a good team.
The problem starts with what you set as condition for your advice: "if you have good players"
Fact is that those "good players" are apparantly NOT randomly distributed over both teams.
Your second condition for your advice is also too often not met on one team. It starts with members on one group not listening to chat and continues to them going solo despite advicing to stay together.
It ALL boils down to the fact that teams in 95% of cases are NOT evenly matched and this should be statistically impossible if actually this all were really random.
Also take into consideration that chat is in 98% silent (apart from me). If it were only communication that makes one team so much better than the other, statistically I should have met a group where one player exactly behaves as you say. Fact is: I have never met such a team. Even in cases where my team completely smashed the other team which does happen from time to time.
I know that you are trying to help so please don't take offence of my post. It is just that I don't see how this really responds to the issue...
Which platform do you play on? In high mmr my team is willing to communicate in group chat the majority of my battlegrounds. Even if it's just to let me know they're on a pve build
You're saying you think premades are somehow able to get into solo queue. I don't agree with that, I've been playing both solo and group bgs for years and never once did I think in my solo queue battleground, "hey this must be a premade group". Sometimes you just get really bad matchmaking rng and it puts all the sweaty battleground vets on the same team, while you get the 16k hp quester who just wants their daily reward.
Edited by IncultaWolf on 27 December 2024 19:461 -
sshogrin✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »AnduinTryggva wrote: »Please consider that talking to the team does not make it a good team.
The problem starts with what you set as condition for your advice: "if you have good players"
Fact is that those "good players" are apparantly NOT randomly distributed over both teams.
Your second condition for your advice is also too often not met on one team. It starts with members on one group not listening to chat and continues to them going solo despite advicing to stay together.
It ALL boils down to the fact that teams in 95% of cases are NOT evenly matched and this should be statistically impossible if actually this all were really random.
Also take into consideration that chat is in 98% silent (apart from me). If it were only communication that makes one team so much better than the other, statistically I should have met a group where one player exactly behaves as you say. Fact is: I have never met such a team. Even in cases where my team completely smashed the other team which does happen from time to time.
I know that you are trying to help so please don't take offence of my post. It is just that I don't see how this really responds to the issue...
Which platform do you play on? In high mmr my team is willing to communicate in group chat the majority of my battlegrounds. Even if it's just to let me know they're on a pve build
You're saying you think premades are somehow able to get into solo queue. I don't agree with that, I've been playing both solo and group bgs for years and never once did I think in my solo queue battleground, "hey this must be a premade group". Sometimes you just get really bad matchmaking rng and it puts all the sweaty battleground vets on the same team, while you get the 16k hp quester who just wants their daily reward.
The really bad matchmaking shouldn't be 95% of the time though, that's the problem. Lately I haven't been able to get into a battleground queued as a group with less than 4 players grouped before queue either queueing for 4v4 or 8v8...we'll never get in that way and have to queue solo. This leads people to believe that premade groups are getting into 4v4 and 8v8 solo queue BGs, especially with the fact that there are less people queueing for BGs now.0 -
Alaztor91✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think it is the game placing premades and solos in the same match, but rather the MMR system that ZOS is using. Afaik Medal Score/Played Matches has a higher relevance than Winning/Losing or ''Performance'' in a match, also iirc MMR is character based (instead of account based) and doesn't decay (I think ZOS did reset it when they introduced the 2 teams BGs though)
I'm barely playing a few matches a week right now since the only thing that I want is the purple daily medal so I can't really comment on how the system behaves in high MMR matches, but I did notice the ''Stomp or be stomped'' matches when I farmed the new weapon/armor style pages (roughly 2 weeks after the new BGs were released on PC NA, 8v8 soloQ)0 -
chessalavakia_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭What makes you think matches with uneven scores aren't the most likely outcome?
ESO has tons of healing, shielding, resource recovery, and much of the healing/shielding is AOE.
This makes it so that killings things is of far greater value than damaging things which means that once the dying starts it's harder for the game to get back to even than it is in many other games.
If you can't win the fight when it's 8 v 8, how are you going to win when you've got 7 and they've got 8?
Add in trickling, people getting tilted, and people giving up and much of the time it's going to be a blowout.
ESO also rewards players with Ultimate for getting kills and some sets will cause damage to everyone around the player that is killed which again favor the side getting kills.0 -
moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭Some players are coming back because of the recent changes and our ratings were purged. For 3 days I've been paired against people who don't even slot burst heal.
The problem is probably temporary like before. It happened from time to time whenever there are favorable changes in BG.Edited by moo_2021 on 27 December 2024 20:410 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It could definitely use some work. I've been playing enough competitive BGs that I am starting to run into the same couple of players now and despite facing off against the same players it could be anything from a crushing defeat, and easy win or a close match. If we are all at a similar MMR, you'd expect more close matches, but here is the issue:
I'm willing to bet that ZOS treats all players the same, no matter their playstyle. Sounds good, but what that means is that sometimes really good players end up in a team that's just healers, or is otherwise not compatible, or the enemies happen to run builds that are their exact counter. The amount of times my healing ult did not work as I intended it to, because one of my allies was using the vampire spammable/toggle at that exact moment can vouch for that - some teams just don't work well together. Then there is the issue of different builds performing differently in different modes.
Do I think that we should introduce roles to BG queue like in dungeons? No, probably not. But I also don't have a better idea. At the very least, I think the MMR system should look at win-loss ratios more than medal scores. Getting to the top of the leaderboard when all you do is circle-healing to farm points seems to be defeating the purpose of it all.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AnduinTryggva wrote: »95% of matches are outragiously imbalanced in team performance. This is statistically impossible if the teams were really randomly assembled.
I see how someone could think that, but I've totally been on teams of ungrouped strangers where we've just stomped, both in the 4v4v4 battlegrounds and the new 2-sided ones.
I think a small difference in player skill and gear is enough for one team to take the lead. And if a team has one dud, or one star palyer, or just one healer, that can make all the difference.
I'd like battleground matches to feel more balanced, but I do really think there's just another explanaton for why solo queue matches still feel one-sided.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner1 -
AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue is aggravated by the fact that we have so many players who either ignore or actively boycott the game objectives.
Their mind is just turned towards kill of other ppl and how many relict hunts or chaos balls are won by 500:0 because one team plays the objective and in the other team you have maybe one or two players actively trying to play it. These matches are just an utter waste of time.
If I did not get a deserter penalty I would just log off from such matches.
It is just an utter annoyance.
I really think relict hunt or chaos ball and maybe even crazy king should be commpletely removed from the daily for solo BG as this kind of game mode is simply not understood by sufficient randoms that queue. (This might be different for grouped BG where these game modes have their place).
This just leads to frustration by those players who actually want and know to play these game modes. Remove it from solo BG, keep it for grouped and it already helps.0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭AnduinTryggva wrote: »The issue is aggravated by the fact that we have so many players who either ignore or actively boycott the game objectives.
Their mind is just turned towards kill of other ppl and how many relict hunts or chaos balls are won by 500:0 because one team plays the objective and in the other team you have maybe one or two players actively trying to play it. These matches are just an utter waste of time.
If I did not get a deserter penalty I would just log off from such matches.
It is just an utter annoyance.
I really think relict hunt or chaos ball and maybe even crazy king should be commpletely removed from the daily for solo BG as this kind of game mode is simply not understood by sufficient randoms that queue. (This might be different for grouped BG where these game modes have their place).
This just leads to frustration by those players who actually want and know to play these game modes. Remove it from solo BG, keep it for grouped and it already helps.
Can you switch toons to avoid the deserter penalty like you can with dungeons?0 -
Solantris✭✭✭yall ever hear about how apple's shuffle isn't actually random and how that came to be? Correlation does not equal causation, and cognitive bias is very much a thing.
We notice when we get slammed more than when we don't because negative experiences stick more than positive ones. You have chosen to rationalize that slamming as being attacked by premade groups because you correctly recognize the coordination in it, but what you don't realize is that general coordination in ESO does not require communication. Play this game enough, you will recognize playstyles. Play it even more, and you will recognize names.
If I load in to a BG and notice that someone on my team is rush of agony pulling into dawnbreaker, it doesn't take more than one pull before I'm ulting on top of it. And that's in the unusual case I'm not already aware of who is pulling before the game even starts, because I've done 8 million and seven bgs in the past 5 years and likely know that particular player and how they like to play by name. Inculta has outlined other examples for you, and Thumblessbot has done the same in your other thread. There is a subset of the community that has spent the vast majority of their gametime in bgs, or pvp in general. They know the game and how to play it, and what's more, they can recognise the chessboard in front of them and make adjustments to synergize with each other on the fly.
People pvp for different reasons. Some people enjoy objective, some people don't. Some people want to fight to the death, others would rather actually die. Neither is correct, they just are. Even within the deathmatch only crowd, there are factions. There are those that believe 70+ kill games are a mark of skill, and those that think killing people who can't fight back is a waste of time. Neither are right, they just are. All of these things exist at the same time in bgs. They are a melting pot of ambition and motivations, and some of those inevitably conflict.
People queueing for their dailies don't remember being steamrolled this hard in 4v4v4 format because second place still got rewards, but those steamrollings still happened, just spread out across the two losing teams. But, now they're not, so people are actually being denied dailies which is creating this higher perception of the general imbalance. But inefficient matchmaking has always been inefficient, to be frank.
As the saying goes, two horses together can pull more than two horses, apart. Two good players can build an undeniable momentum, if their team flexs to them. It doesn't mean they queued in together.Edited by Solantris on 29 December 2024 10:133 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »AnduinTryggva wrote: »The issue is aggravated by the fact that we have so many players who either ignore or actively boycott the game objectives.
Their mind is just turned towards kill of other ppl and how many relict hunts or chaos balls are won by 500:0 because one team plays the objective and in the other team you have maybe one or two players actively trying to play it. These matches are just an utter waste of time.
If I did not get a deserter penalty I would just log off from such matches.
It is just an utter annoyance.
I really think relict hunt or chaos ball and maybe even crazy king should be commpletely removed from the daily for solo BG as this kind of game mode is simply not understood by sufficient randoms that queue. (This might be different for grouped BG where these game modes have their place).
This just leads to frustration by those players who actually want and know to play these game modes. Remove it from solo BG, keep it for grouped and it already helps.
Can you switch toons to avoid the deserter penalty like you can with dungeons?
Yes, deserter penalties are character based not account wide.PC/EU, StamSorc Main0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.
As the saying goes, two horses together can pull more than two horses, apart. Two good players can build an undeniable momentum, if their team flexs to them. It doesn't mean they queued in together.
Well, as a long time horsewoman, I can say with perfect truth that two horses which haven't ever been harnessed together regularly (if at all) WILL NOT pull smoothly at all, not to mention pulling more together than apart. In fact, they'll probably cause a kerfuffle, and if they (and you) don't wind up hurt, well, that's a major bonus.
But your point is well taken considering.
Edited by TaSheen on 30 December 2024 03:31______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭I have been doing 4v4 all weekend and the queues are popping right now. But, somehow, I just got queued with someone in their first ever 4v4. I know because I asked.
Mmr does not work, even when there are a considerable number of people queuing for bgs.
Mmr
Does
Not
Work
0
