Yeah, the cheese tanks make things miserable. Upside is they really are only effective in Capture the Relic. Other modes render them useless, even Domination as they can only cover one flag

gariondavey wrote: »

There are multiple sets in the game that are specifically designed to deal with builds like that. Check them out sometime

Shouldnt have to build to counter one broken playstyle. Instead of putting sets out there aimed at countering the Frankenstein zos has created zos should address, idk, The Frankenstein zos has created. But they don't, they keep failing forward with a little stitch here and a little stitch there. It's disheartening that this is the way it is.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

There are multiple sets in the game that are specifically designed to deal with builds like that. Check them out sometime

Shouldnt have to build to counter one broken playstyle. Instead of putting sets out there aimed at countering the Frankenstein zos has created zos should address, idk, The Frankenstein zos has created. But they don't, they keep failing forward with a little stitch here and a little stitch there. It's disheartening that this is the way it is.

Yes, you should. If a player solely builds to survive against 8 players while sacrificing all other playstyles I think its fine. The player is literally useless otherwise, get over it and ignore them.

Not everyone is required to play a well rounded build. People enjoy glass 1shot cannons, god healers, and frankenstein tanks. Just because you choose to be well rounded and cannot deal with an extreme does not mean the extremes shouldnt exist. Learn to build more efficiently and maybe you wont have such a problem.

Disagree. One person shouldnt be able to kill 8 and one shouldnt be able to survive 8 in any scenario outside of maybe seige weapons and people standing in stupid.

Take care.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

There are multiple sets in the game that are specifically designed to deal with builds like that. Check them out sometime

Shouldnt have to build to counter one broken playstyle. Instead of putting sets out there aimed at countering the Frankenstein zos has created zos should address, idk, The Frankenstein zos has created. But they don't, they keep failing forward with a little stitch here and a little stitch there. It's disheartening that this is the way it is.

Yes, you should. If a player solely builds to survive against 8 players while sacrificing all other playstyles I think its fine. The player is literally useless otherwise, get over it and ignore them.

Not everyone is required to play a well rounded build. People enjoy glass 1shot cannons, god healers, and frankenstein tanks. Just because you choose to be well rounded and cannot deal with an extreme does not mean the extremes shouldnt exist. Learn to build more efficiently and maybe you wont have such a problem.

Disagree. One person shouldnt be able to kill 8 and one shouldnt be able to survive 8 in any scenario outside of maybe seige weapons and people standing in stupid.

Take care.

This isn't counterstrike go, not everyone is built equally or should perform equally. If you want that type of game, generic fighting games are more of that style.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

There are multiple sets in the game that are specifically designed to deal with builds like that. Check them out sometime

Shouldnt have to build to counter one broken playstyle. Instead of putting sets out there aimed at countering the Frankenstein zos has created zos should address, idk, The Frankenstein zos has created. But they don't, they keep failing forward with a little stitch here and a little stitch there. It's disheartening that this is the way it is.

Yes, you should. If a player solely builds to survive against 8 players while sacrificing all other playstyles I think its fine. The player is literally useless otherwise, get over it and ignore them.

Not everyone is required to play a well rounded build. People enjoy glass 1shot cannons, god healers, and frankenstein tanks. Just because you choose to be well rounded and cannot deal with an extreme does not mean the extremes shouldnt exist. Learn to build more efficiently and maybe you wont have such a problem.

Disagree. One person shouldnt be able to kill 8 and one shouldnt be able to survive 8 in any scenario outside of maybe seige weapons and people standing in stupid.

Take care.

This isn't counterstrike go, not everyone is built equally or should perform equally. If you want that type of game, generic fighting games are more of that style.

I disagree here wholeheartedly. And I consider your "counterstrike" argument more of the polemic sort to be honest.

Any decent PvP game has limitations with respect to how OP a build can be.

And no, a cheese tank like that person is unfortunately very useful in certain circumstances in ESO PvP. The present case I put forward was a relict hunt match.

The story went like this: This cheese tank just stood at our relict and as we could not kill that I tried to bash that everytime that tried to take the relict until my ressources drained for bashing. Meanwhile the 7 team members of that cheese tank just stood at their relict to defend it. The cheese tank team won expectantly by two to zero won relicts after 15 min.

What kind of game is this? Is this considered fun? Was this kind of game in the minds of the developers when they set it up?

I would rather call this abuse of the system in a very destructive but admittently effective way.

I strongly support any measures that limits abuses of the system.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

There are multiple sets in the game that are specifically designed to deal with builds like that. Check them out sometime

Shouldnt have to build to counter one broken playstyle. Instead of putting sets out there aimed at countering the Frankenstein zos has created zos should address, idk, The Frankenstein zos has created. But they don't, they keep failing forward with a little stitch here and a little stitch there. It's disheartening that this is the way it is.

Yes, you should. If a player solely builds to survive against 8 players while sacrificing all other playstyles I think its fine. The player is literally useless otherwise, get over it and ignore them.

Not everyone is required to play a well rounded build. People enjoy glass 1shot cannons, god healers, and frankenstein tanks. Just because you choose to be well rounded and cannot deal with an extreme does not mean the extremes shouldnt exist. Learn to build more efficiently and maybe you wont have such a problem.

And I used to play a CC frost mage with resource drain poisons, status chance, roots/snares/stuns, to drain the resources of players like that.

But apparently that playstyle “isn’t fun” and there have been continual efforts to grant CC immunity, root and snare immunity, and nerfing of resource drain tools. (Because my goodness I could keep a player in place if I wanted to before they introduced that whole basic Snare/Root immunity on breakout).

So apparently it is entirely possible to gut playstyles if players don’t like them.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I think the core issue has always been and still is that ESO went for a PvP system that was initially identical to PvE.

As I joined ESO later and not from the start I can only suspect that certain aspects (like damage taken and output modifier that you get when entering a PvP zone) were introduced AFTER release when they realized it does not work.

Since then they simply try to repair a thing that was broken and ill-conceived from the start.

Cyrodiil and also the BG are actually fine game modes (I would just recommend some adjustments to map design) as such. They could have a great potential for a PvP game.

What is really hindering ESO to take off in the PvP department is how damage/defence is handled with the builds of players.

I actually would recommend to let the current PvP die, take the game mode and make a new build system dedicated to PvP. It could take elements from the current system but should focus on skill builds rather than gear builds.

It should in terms of health and ressources buff limit it to three settings depending if you go for heal, tank or dps.

So the battlespirit was introduced to equalize the build numbers between pve and pvp. Part of the reasoning was to make it easier for players to understand whether their damage output was making sense compared to their pve numbers. People always ask why they didnt differentiate further using battle spirit, but zos had said a few times that the buff cant facilitate wild rule changes for pve and pvp.

The recent end of year summary pointed out that pve and pvp will now have different skills (only class skills?) They of course worded the statement poorly and left things up to interpretation. One of the major pvp To pve changes the game made was to remove the stack limit on dots and hots. My interpretation for the statement would be to not fundamentally change skills, but do rule changes like this that most players will not even notice in combat.

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Skill builds vs gear builds, probably your biggest gripe there should be with the prolific proc issue. Long ago gear was solely used to boost your stats which provided a boost to your skills. Now if you so choose, your skills can be essentially worthless and your damage output can be automatic procs which break the gcd system. The balance of base skill vs buffed skill vs proc sets is certainly heavily towards buffed and procs.

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The problem with the 45-50khp players now is due to the tension not existing in build choices. Max stam and mag DO NOT MATTER, they are the worst scaling and least useful stats. Even on magsorc some people are swapping to health now that hardened scales off of it. Zos has to rebalance enchants, food, glyphs, mundus, sustain, etc.

To separate the trinity so you cant do all three, the major change would be to make heals scale more with max stats instead of Damage. Currently damage skills per one line of wd gain 50% more damage than one line of max stam. For heal skills this should be inversed. Zos wanted to do this change before but was worried they may upset the meta too quickly...... kinda comical of a reason since every other patch they flop the meta around.