Highlighting PvP might not be a good idea

StarOfElyon · November 20

Over the years YouTube and Twitch content creators have expressed their complaints about combat in ESO, especially when proc sets began dominating, and making the game less about skill and more about set combinations.

Those complaints were never addressed and led to ESO losing what I see as a great treasure in these content creators. I feel like they were treated as replaceable and the value that they brought to the game was under valued.

Now ESO is having an event with streamers and expecting that them playing the game that ignored their complaints is going to make for some positive exposure. I don't believe it will have that effect. I believe it will be the opposite. Maybe I'm alone in that opinion.

Necrotech_Master · November 20

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

Bammlschwamml · November 20

I will try to ask questions avout pve and housing and see if i get banned/silenced for it. Like all the times i tried to ask questions about pvp and Cyrodiil in any of their other streams

I think it's good to have pvp streams with devs, because maybe now "the team" will notice why players have been crying and begging for years.

StarOfElyon · November 20

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I will try to ask questions avout pve and housing and see if i get banned/silenced for it. Like all the times i tried to ask questions about pvp and Cyrodiil in any of their other streams

I think it's good to have pvp streams with devs, because maybe now "the team" will notice why players have been crying and begging for years.

Yeah as bad as it has the potential to be, maybe good will come out of it.

I hope sypherPK is prepared because those tarnished nightmare crits upside the dome about to go crazy.

Bammlschwamml · November 20

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Yeah as bad as it has the potential to be, maybe good will come out of it.

I hope sypherPK is prepared because those tarnished nightmare crits upside the dome about to go crazy.

I wish they would make more streams with more devs (like rich and matt) and maybe some engineers and go to Gray Host Cyrodiil.

tsaescishoeshiner · November 20

It was a fun stream today! The devs even directly responded to some people's hardball questions and gripes about PvP and stuff. (Not that it prevented some complainers from trying to bring everyone else down lol)

React · November 20

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It was a fun stream today! The devs even directly responded to some people's hardball questions and gripes about PvP and stuff. (Not that it prevented some complainers from trying to bring everyone else down lol)

Did we watch the same stream?

All I saw during that stream was multiple games not starting (wasting 30+ minutes of everyone's time), a 4 stack in 8v8 spawnkilling brian's team with multiple 40k+ wardens and a 60k HP healer, and then two games where brian stood on flags on a tank that by his own words "is just to annoy people in PVP".

The only question I heard brian respond to was arttea's question about the return of the 4v4v4 modes. As far as twitch chat goes, there was one single non-answer from jessica regarding cross healing in BGs - basically just saying they're aware of it.

Edit: Apologies, there was one other answer from jessica regarding why brian/the studio won't talk about the state or future of cyrodiil, and she said that it was to "manage expectations".

Joy_Division · November 20

React wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It was a fun stream today! The devs even directly responded to some people's hardball questions and gripes about PvP and stuff. (Not that it prevented some complainers from trying to bring everyone else down lol)

"two games where brian stood on flags on a tank that by his own words "is just to annoy people in PVP".

Well, at least we now know this sort of PvP is an intended feature that ZOS's devs actively play as opposed to an oversight in unanticipated balancing.

Now I won;t get my hopes up that they might try to make PvP something in which the object or a winning strategy might be something other than make annoying builds

StarOfElyon · November 20

I don't blame them for playing healers and tanks but it didn't make the stream fun to watch.

Edit: to be clear, they can play whatever is fun for them though, I cool with that.

The_Meathead · November 20

I have mixed feelings.

I'm grateful for anything that shines a light on PvP in ESO because it's my favorite part of gameplay here. The recent efforts on BGs are substantial if perhaps imperfect, and I am thankful for those as well.

That said, Cyrodiil should be the major selling point of ESO's PvP imo, and it really needs some love. It's what brought me to ESO in the beginning and still my favorite part, but I would much prefer it got the lion's share of the attention. If they spent a few sessions there, maybe the craziness of current Ball Group strength, in-combat bugs off things like Ele Sus (heck, that ability in general), NBs preloading Merciless, and some other stuff might get some much-needed correction over the next few months?

One of the builds used in the session really made me feel like the Devs are disconnected from PvP, though. That's a downer, but I won't nitpick or complain too much that direction.

Overall, EFFORT (very) APPRECIATED!! Please, please keep it up.

Stafford197 · November 20

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

It’s totally fine to not care about content creators or streamers, but to say they have no effect is definitely wrong.

These people bring TONS of new eyes to a game, and their enjoyment of said game plays a big role in whether or not those new eyes convert into new players or not. Back when PvP was at its prime I personally met a lot of players who followed Sypher, Fengrush, or Deltia who then purchased ESO because the gameplay looked fun.

I’m someone who rarely keeps up with streamers, yet I myself have purchased numerous different games so far that I had never heard of until I saw them played on stream.

Not only that…. these content creators boost up a game’s relevance through viewership. New players are hesitant to start playing a multiplayer game if it appears to be low population / dying. Many creator videos also cover essential information (quest guides, build guides, event guides, cool houses, new info, etc) many players enjoy watching and which ultimately serve to retain an existing player’s interest in a game.

Necrotech_Master · November 20

Stafford197 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

It’s totally fine to not care about content creators or streamers, but to say they have no effect is definitely wrong.

These people bring TONS of new eyes to a game, and their enjoyment of said game plays a big role in whether or not those new eyes convert into new players or not. Back when PvP was at its prime I personally met a lot of players who followed Sypher, Fengrush, or Deltia who then purchased ESO because the gameplay looked fun.

I’m someone who rarely keeps up with streamers, yet I myself have purchased numerous different games so far that I had never heard of until I saw them played on stream.

Not only that…. these content creators boost up a game’s relevance through viewership. New players are hesitant to start playing a multiplayer game if it appears to be low population / dying. Many creator videos also cover essential information (quest guides, build guides, event guides, cool houses, new info, etc) many players enjoy watching and which ultimately serve to retain an existing player’s interest in a game.

sure for some people, not at all for me though

never looked at guides made by streamers, followed or watched streamers, or purchased a game because a streamer was playing it lol

im sure theres also a portion of people like me as well who dont pay attention to them whatsoever, and might choose to play a game on a friends recommendation

if they had a notable effect, it would be much more noticeable in the game like with what players are talking about (such as a streamer saying a certain set is a new meta and thus being a higher demand in game for the content the set comes from)

gariondavey · November 20

People specifically came back from extended breaks from eso for a few hours to play against the devs to show them how disconnected their decisions are and how they aren't even playing their game on the same complexity level as a lot of players are.

StarOfElyon · November 21

Stafford197 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

It’s totally fine to not care about content creators or streamers, but to say they have no effect is definitely wrong.

These people bring TONS of new eyes to a game, and their enjoyment of said game plays a big role in whether or not those new eyes convert into new players or not. Back when PvP was at its prime I personally met a lot of players who followed Sypher, Fengrush, or Deltia who then purchased ESO because the gameplay looked fun.

I’m someone who rarely keeps up with streamers, yet I myself have purchased numerous different games so far that I had never heard of until I saw them played on stream.

Not only that…. these content creators boost up a game’s relevance through viewership. New players are hesitant to start playing a multiplayer game if it appears to be low population / dying. Many creator videos also cover essential information (quest guides, build guides, event guides, cool houses, new info, etc) many players enjoy watching and which ultimately serve to retain an existing player’s interest in a game.

Yeah "user generated content" is extremely valuable. It's something companies should actually be trying to capitalize on.

fluffybunny · November 22

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

Just because you don’t doesn’t mean other people don’t either. Most of the younger people in my family watch streamers and YouTubers. Hell, a lot of my friends in their 20s still watch content creators. Something like this will absolutely affect whether or not a potentially new or returning player chooses to play ESO.

Navaac223 · November 24

Ehhh everyone already knows pvp is in a terrible state right now so it's impossible for it to make things worse.

The thing it did show, however, is the level of zos developpers : I know I'm a basement dweller who spends too much time pvping but I still expect the people who create the update to at least have my level because I know that otherwise it's going to be random tweaks. The thing is that this stream reveals the devs aren't even average at the game : just look at the dang stream ! The lead combat designer is on a troll tank build and he doesn't know you can heavy attack to regain ressources.

The random and universally hated updates that we've had for 2 years now have never made more sense : the devs suck at the game

Xirks · November 24

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i pay absolutely zero attention to streamers/content creators so i dont think it will have any effect if someone chooses to or not to play this game

i think overall having a public event with actual devs participating is a positive thing

Totally disagree, streamers know what is balanced more than the devs. With all due respect and without bashing anyone with ill intent, Brian Wheelers performance during the BG event showed how little he knew about how the combat actually functioned especially in pvp. This again is not trying to be rude, only trying to shed light on a MAJOR issue. ESO is losing players at an alarming rate, many are complaining about how the combat system is nowadays.

MincMincMinc · November 25

Is anyone else concerned that the lead combat dev barely knows how combat functions? Don't you think they could fit in a 3-4 hour training session with a known pvp streamer? We have seen it multiple times where pvp is brought up and they just laugh it off going "oh well im terrible at fighting haha" Maybe spend one day to actually learn the game and show the community you are doing so.

Back in the day I used to teach people and get them emperorship within a week. One week I had gotten 7 different people emp with a small guild back in the more competitive years. Simple crash courses do not take that long to bring people up to speed.

StarOfElyon · November 25

I was thinking about them getting some PvP training too. I recommend Grimsforge Gaming and/or Unified Gaming. They have experience in teaching and training in their personal lives, and they've made YouTube videos for training people for ESO PvP. The devs should link up with them 💯.

StarOfElyon · December 19

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Over the years YouTube and Twitch content creators have expressed their complaints about combat in ESO, especially when proc sets began dominating, and making the game less about skill and more about set combinations.

Those complaints were never addressed and led to ESO losing what I see as a great treasure in these content creators. I feel like they were treated as replaceable and the value that they brought to the game was under valued.

Now ESO is having an event with streamers and expecting that them playing the game that ignored their complaints is going to make for some positive exposure. I don't believe it will have that effect. I believe it will be the opposite. Maybe I'm alone in that opinion.

This video by No1 (Isth3rno1else) really hammers home what I said above.

https://youtu.be/PuQe6ID_dBY?si=xI6bnLzhUAETwIEu

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin Please pass this along.