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Why does ESO have such a bad PVP experience?
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The_Meathead✭✭✭✭Short list of issues that I think would go a long way to improving the ESO PvP experience if addressed:- Poor class balance. Yeah balance will never be perfect, but it's rare to see such prolonged gaps in performance levels between classes in an active game. A class shouldn't be the best or worst performing for years in your game, and if over half of your PvP population is playing 2 out of your 7 classes then something is wrong.
- Glaring flaws in their combat system around healing. Most games have a dedicated stat for healing to guide players into building for it, but ESO could use the already existing penalties from the armor passives to mimic this. They could reduce healing you do on yourself and allies by 30% while wearing more than 1 piece of medium armor, and healing while wearing more than 1 piece of heavy armor only affects yourself at full strength while healing others at a 70% reduction. So you will have to wear 5 light armor pieces to build into being an effective healer. The other more glaring issue around healing is HoT stacking and cross healing. Heal stacking pretty much is like turning on god mode in PvP it eliminates the competitive aspect and removes all risk from the game. Limit heals to 1 unique instance per player with additional casts just refreshing the duration.
- Very slow responses to any imbalances if they are addressed at all. Remember Tarnished Nightmare with 60k damage procs for a month? That set should've been disabled in PvP until the bug was fixed soon as they became aware of it. Faster responses will make players feel like that area of the game is important and not an afterthought.
- While it has greatly improved from what it was 3 years it server performance can still crap the bed sometimes mainly when ball groups are around which also strips away the experience of open world PvP in general.
- Also if they want to get that +500 rapport boost with PvPers addressing bugs that require you feed yourself to the Slaughterfish or give Uncle Sheo a visit to remove would go a long way.
Excellent post.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.1 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Also, there are troll tanks that can absolutely take damage from 4 sweaties and not die. The answer isn't to nerf these tanks and heal bots, it's to not reward them with medal score. Reward those actually doing damage. I think zos' philosophy on this is flawed and needs to be revisited for the health of bgs.
Its funny you should say that because I actually play one of those troll tanks sometimes in BG's (and in Cyrodil). The last match I played, we lost, but the only two relics we captured were from me. I don't think they're getting rewards for not being killed, they're getting rewards for playing the objective - which I think is legitimate. The character is purpose built to capture points and run relics. That's what needs to be done, so I don't see this as a problem. It is not as if it is a guaranteed win, you can still do a lot of things to counter it, like negating and constantly bashing/crowd controlling the relic so that person can't get their hands on the relic. That is pretty much why I only scored twice, even though I was running unstoppable potions
.
Honestly, I just think it is part of the game and people need to learn how to address the issue. Lots of good/experienced players know how to deal with this situation and some are still figuring it out. It doesn't mean its an illegitimate playstyle in an objectives based gamemode.
Agree. If the player is built for the objective then they should be rewarded for both obtaining the objective, like the relic, AND preventing the other team from doing the same. Holding l2 and spamming heals in a dm is not how a dm should be won. But here we are.
To your point on relic, the scoring for this mode is absolutely broken. I usually play defense on relic and it took me five bgs to get the 1000 medal score quest completed and I xd about 10 people trying to take my relic in each. O points for that.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it telling that none of these responses ever include that golding or having purple can be the difference between about 8% of your damage from the 200 or so WP/SP DM. (Gold or Purple Weapon)Edited by Avran_Sylt on 14 December 2024 10:550 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭Why does ESO have such a bad PVP experience?
Because Battlegrounds is the gateway to PVP.
And we will never have balanced matches until this is done: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670165/battlegrounds-cycle-of-self-destruction/p1
And so the gate remains closed.
0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why does ESO have such a bad PVP experience?
Because Battlegrounds is the gateway to PVP.
And we will never have balanced matches until this is done: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670165/battlegrounds-cycle-of-self-destruction/p1
And so the gate remains closed.
TL:DR? I Assume you're serious, if you have one,0 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭Lack of support from the company. PvP in ESO used to be the best PvP ever created. Now, not so much. The pop cap is just way too low, for starters.4
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Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 14 December 2024 22:270 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
Yeah I get that but if that's the bare minimum to start to begin to have a decent gearing for PvP that's locked behind DLC and serves to create a higher barrier of entry to PvP.
Not a great experience IMO.
I've already got my PvP setup that I like and have well-upgraded, but this is more of a general opinion on why not many newcomers, especially if they're just popping over from PvE, will have a good experience.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
It could be interesting if they eventually have a BG's event where the gear and skills are curated by the system. See how many new players that would attract, and what the sentimentality of entrenched players would be.3 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
Yeah I get that but if that's the bare minimum to start to begin to have a decent gearing for PvP that's locked behind DLC and serves to create a higher barrier of entry to PvP.
Not a great experience IMO.
I've already got my PvP setup that I like and have well-upgraded, but this is more of a general opinion on why not many newcomers, especially if they're just popping over from PvE, will have a good experience.
Infinite Archive is not dlc0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
It could be interesting if they eventually have a BG's event where the gear and skills are curated by the system. See how many new players that would attract, and what the sentimentality of entrenched players would be.
It might help create an atmosphere where there is more theory crafting and, thus, build diversity.0 -
fizzylu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd say ESO used to have the best PvP experience out of the swords and magicks themed MMOs, but a series of questionable decisions and never switching up the formula for new content updates over the years has changed that.2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
Yeah I get that but if that's the bare minimum to start to begin to have a decent gearing for PvP that's locked behind DLC and serves to create a higher barrier of entry to PvP.
Not a great experience IMO.
I've already got my PvP setup that I like and have well-upgraded, but this is more of a general opinion on why not many newcomers, especially if they're just popping over from PvE, will have a good experience.
Infinite Archive is not dlc
Oh interesting, didn't know. Though IA is a bit more heavy on the pre-existing knowledge kinda thing. (that being said it is a good environment to start to appreciate various forms of defense and offensive trade-offs).Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
It could be interesting if they eventually have a BG's event where the gear and skills are curated by the system. See how many new players that would attract, and what the sentimentality of entrenched players would be.
It might help create an atmosphere where there is more theory crafting and, thus, build diversity.
On a mechanical level the curated sets/skills would mean there's less theorycrafting needed from the player, but it would be introducing the player to different setups they might've not otherwise considered/encountered (especially as a fresh face, in PvP or in general if it also ignores level/unlock requirements). Not entirely certain on what to make of your response though.Edited by Avran_Sylt on 16 December 2024 14:590 -
From a PvP mechanics, goals I rather liked it but the constant zergs/ball groups and sometimes toxic behaviors have mostly driven me away from PvP.0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
Yeah I get that but if that's the bare minimum to start to begin to have a decent gearing for PvP that's locked behind DLC and serves to create a higher barrier of entry to PvP.
Not a great experience IMO.
I've already got my PvP setup that I like and have well-upgraded, but this is more of a general opinion on why not many newcomers, especially if they're just popping over from PvE, will have a good experience.
Infinite Archive is not dlc
Oh interesting, didn't know. Though IA is a bit more heavy on the pre-existing knowledge kinda thing. (that being said it is a good environment to start to appreciate various forms of defense and offensive trade-offs).Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, I think the largest issue might be that gearing for PvP can be prohibitive coupled with the drop-in gameplay and daily reward incentives that Battlegrounds offers.
Wonder if they’d ever consider making optional preset armory loadouts freely available for BGs, skills and all. (Not Cyrodiil).
Kinda like a starter loadout most other games provide given they’re making BG’s in a more arcade style.
Honestly I'd motion for them to remove the crafting requirements of trait learning for crafted gear. Waiting months to be able to use the most friendly gear for new players is an archaic system.
Crafted gear should be easy to get and intuitive for new players to use.
Makes you double think, since one tamriel, why didnt they remove the different crafting mats for different levels..... if new players could farm endgame mats and make gear from the get go there may be way better player retention.
Mmm. Being able to craft the gear you want I think is an okay MMO kinda luxury in PvP. Might let you try niche builds and stuff.
But it'd be nice if there were some kinda basic setup that a player could wear that offers decent stats that would let players dive right into PvP without needing to gold weapons and stuff as a near mandate prior, and a decent recommended skill setup for faster onboarding.
It's more than a bit of a grind but I would highly recommend torc of the last ayleid king. It's not broken op or anything, but gives you one pretty good setup setup for all your toons to test out cyro, ic, bgs.
You would likely need gold weapons but could survive with blue or purple jewelry and armor.
It could be interesting if they eventually have a BG's event where the gear and skills are curated by the system. See how many new players that would attract, and what the sentimentality of entrenched players would be.
It might help create an atmosphere where there is more theory crafting and, thus, build diversity.
On a mechanical level the curated sets/skills would mean there's less theorycrafting needed from the player, but it would be introducing the player to different setups they might've not otherwise considered/encountered (especially as a fresh face, in PvP or in general if it also ignores level/unlock requirements). Not entirely certain on what to make of your response though.
You made the right thing out of my response. Being exposed to new and different sets through gameplay, without requiring heavy investment in mats, is a good way to foster theorycrafting and build diversity1