People will tell you they suck because of their damage. Smart people who use the skill beyond a slight damage buff know better. Shades don't put the player into combat, which means you can send your shades into a group of mobs and all the mobs will agro them, then you can pick out single targets you didn't send the shades after with ranged/stealth attacks before moving onto the next. As well if the shades de-spawn while you're still dealing with the mob you pulled, the others will most of the time just go back to their places before the pull.

I swear I have to make a video or something to show people what they are missing when it comes to shades. There has never been a better pet. At least the shades don't die by getting attacked or disappear when switching if they aren't on both bars.

I was going to take the Bow Shade then thought about it some more and decided since I have a tank build it was more important to make sure that 15% damage decrease is always up so having two shades would go a longer way to making that possible. Being that it's a Shadow ability I don't mind refreshing it either when they get stupid since that's just another 6 seconds of 30% more Stamina growth and having them slotted is 3% more Health. But I think in your case the bow shade is the problem, they need to get away from you so that you don't draw agro, and only the melee ones move to the target.

And 15% damage reduction is nothing to sneer at as far as utility goes. Most NB's complain about always dieing to groups in VR content and that's mostly due to them taking up to zero defensive abilities. I've soloed the Gargoyles in the Lost City VR dungeon with Shades, Haste, Strife, and Leeching Strikes while DW, and when I let the shades drop, the damage was harder to keep up with, with the self heals.

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

Just sayin, I'm leveling a nightblade tank and do face tank things in light and medium armor. Mages do tank. AoE build's should be good for burning down packs, single target builds should be able to hold their own, every class should have to use skills but shouldn't be forced into using specific skills to be decent, fighting with bare hands should be a viable option for players if they so choose, all classes should be equally viable , certain classes should have their specialties but if I build my nightblade to be a great AoE'r then you're damn right I should be doing just as well at burning down packs as a DK. Just as if you build your Templar to be a great single target assassin he should be able to do that just as well as my nightblade(Except single target assassin builds for nightblades aren't viable so your templar would actually be better at that.)

I think you are confusing single player RPGs with MMOs...

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

Just sayin, I'm leveling a nightblade tank and do face tank things in light and medium armor. Mages do tank. AoE build's should be good for burning down packs, single target builds should be able to hold their own, every class should have to use skills but shouldn't be forced into using specific skills to be decent, fighting with bare hands should be a viable option for players if they so choose, all classes should be equally viable , certain classes should have their specialties but if I build my nightblade to be a great AoE'r then you're damn right I should be doing just as well at burning down packs as a DK. Just as if you build your Templar to be a great single target assassin he should be able to do that just as well as my nightblade(Except single target assassin builds for nightblades aren't viable so your templar would actually be better at that.)

I think you are confusing single player RPGs with MMOs...

Nope, still thinking bare handed combat should be a legitimate alternative to using a weapon, I could see it done by using your glove slot as a weapon, for sacrificing armor and better enchants, you could enchant them to do damage. I see nothing wrong with that. And are you really going to argue with me all classes should be equal and that while a player who prefers aoe builds over single target builds should just be innately better at soloing? I would argue AoE builds should be more vulnerable in exchange for their massive aoe damage, they should be the glass cannons who deal massive damage but take massive damage while those single target builds should have survivability for sacrificing their ability to burn down packs of mobs at a time.

Yeah thats pretty much how MMOs are, and how are you going to have survivability if you said that you dont like to being forced to use the survavility skills/staretegys whatever, you said you dont like shades, shades are a viable survavility strategy, if you dont like it and you die because of that, well thats your choice but you have the option to survive...

If you want more selfhealing you can be a vampire, you dont like vampires or isnt fun for you and then you die because of that? its your choice, you have the option to be a vampire and have more selfhealing...

There are 2 types of playstyles in every game/life/whatever, the funny thing and actualy doing what you like or the most efective way, it can be boring, you may dislike it but its a secure win, this is the different between competitive and fun, if you are a competitive player, you will use whatever you need to use to win (just dont cheat).

For me I like both playstyles but I like more the competitive playstyle. I want to be a NB because its the class that I like but I also want to win, so what can I do? Use the most efective tactical available for NB, until Devs patch and I will try to figure out the ''best'' build again, thats why I not show my builds, thats how I play most of the games.

But all of this is a choice, you can chose it too, but if you prefer play for fun with funy builds then dont come to the forums whining that the next guy have a better ''build/character/strategy/whatever'' because he is actualy playing for that, to have the best possible...

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

Just sayin, I'm leveling a nightblade tank and do face tank things in light and medium armor. Mages do tank. AoE build's should be good for burning down packs, single target builds should be able to hold their own, every class should have to use skills but shouldn't be forced into using specific skills to be decent, fighting with bare hands should be a viable option for players if they so choose, all classes should be equally viable , certain classes should have their specialties but if I build my nightblade to be a great AoE'r then you're damn right I should be doing just as well at burning down packs as a DK. Just as if you build your Templar to be a great single target assassin he should be able to do that just as well as my nightblade(Except single target assassin builds for nightblades aren't viable so your templar would actually be better at that.)

I think you are confusing single player RPGs with MMOs...

Nope, still thinking bare handed combat should be a legitimate alternative to using a weapon, I could see it done by using your glove slot as a weapon, for sacrificing armor and better enchants, you could enchant them to do damage. I see nothing wrong with that. And are you really going to argue with me all classes should be equal and that while a player who prefers aoe builds over single target builds should just be innately better at soloing? I would argue AoE builds should be more vulnerable in exchange for their massive aoe damage, they should be the glass cannons who deal massive damage but take massive damage while those single target builds should have survivability for sacrificing their ability to burn down packs of mobs at a time.

Yeah thats pretty much how MMOs are, and how are you going to have survivability if you said that you dont like to being forced to use the survavility skills/staretegys whatever, you said you dont like shades, shades are a viable survavility strategy, if you dont like it and you die because of that, well thats your choice but you have the option to survive...

If you want more selfhealing you can be a vampire, you dont like vampires or isnt fun for you and then you die because of that? its your choice, you have the option to be a vampire and have more selfhealing...

There are 2 types of playstyles in every game/life/whatever, the funny thing and actualy doing what you like or the most efective way, it can be boring, you may dislike it but its a secure win, this is the different between competitive and fun, if you are a competitive player, you will use whatever you need to use to win (just dont cheat).

For me I like both playstyles but I like more the competitive playstyle. I want to be a NB because its the class that I like but I also want to win, so what can I do? Use the most efective tactical available for NB, until Devs patch and I will try to figure out the ''best'' build again, thats why I not show my builds, thats how I play most of the games.

But all of this is a choice, you can chose it too, but if you prefer play for fun with funy builds then dont come to the forums whining that the next guy have a better ''build/character/strategy/whatever'' because he is actualy playing for that, to have the best possible...

This isn't your standard MMO, this is ESO who put the lable of "Play how you want" on their game, yeah the tools are there to make the fights easier on you but they shouldn't be required, guess what, I'm a vampire, run swallow soul, argonian with all racials maxed, ritual stone and I'm a vampire and all self healing is [snip] compared to the vampires drain, that makes vampires a requirement for single target builds and that's not how it should be, if I'm stacking every self healing increase in the game it had better damn well work like no other, and it does, in the opposite direction you would expect self heals to go, they give you LESS survivability by taking up a massive amount of space on your 5 slot bar and sacrificing most of your damage and that's not, or it shouldn't be, okay. Good for you to make the most BIS build possible, but just because you try to stack the most powerful abilities in the game at the moment to suit your new FOTM build doesn't mean we all should, if I want to be a high damage single target assassin glass cannon I should be able to do that, but I've said this over and over again it doesn't work, too much glass, not enough cannon.

Well you can actualy play ''how you want'' but the thing is that ''how people want'' isnt necesary going to be as efective as someone that build for pure efectiveness. MMOs will always have min/max buillds/strategys and this isnt going to be the exception... No patch can ''fix'' this because there's nothing to fix, some type of players will always try to figure out the most efective build of every patch... This is how MMOs are...

Moderator Edit: Edited previously moderated quote to match.

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

Just sayin, I'm leveling a nightblade tank and do face tank things in light and medium armor. Mages do tank. AoE build's should be good for burning down packs, single target builds should be able to hold their own, every class should have to use skills but shouldn't be forced into using specific skills to be decent, fighting with bare hands should be a viable option for players if they so choose, all classes should be equally viable , certain classes should have their specialties but if I build my nightblade to be a great AoE'r then you're damn right I should be doing just as well at burning down packs as a DK. Just as if you build your Templar to be a great single target assassin he should be able to do that just as well as my nightblade(Except single target assassin builds for nightblades aren't viable so your templar would actually be better at that.)

I think you are confusing single player RPGs with MMOs...

Nope, still thinking bare handed combat should be a legitimate alternative to using a weapon, I could see it done by using your glove slot as a weapon, for sacrificing armor and better enchants, you could enchant them to do damage. I see nothing wrong with that. And are you really going to argue with me all classes should be equal and that while a player who prefers aoe builds over single target builds should just be innately better at soloing? I would argue AoE builds should be more vulnerable in exchange for their massive aoe damage, they should be the glass cannons who deal massive damage but take massive damage while those single target builds should have survivability for sacrificing their ability to burn down packs of mobs at a time.

Yeah thats pretty much how MMOs are, and how are you going to have survivability if you said that you dont like to being forced to use the survavility skills/staretegys whatever, you said you dont like shades, shades are a viable survavility strategy, if you dont like it and you die because of that, well thats your choice but you have the option to survive...

If you want more selfhealing you can be a vampire, you dont like vampires or isnt fun for you and then you die because of that? its your choice, you have the option to be a vampire and have more selfhealing...

There are 2 types of playstyles in every game/life/whatever, the funny thing and actualy doing what you like or the most efective way, it can be boring, you may dislike it but its a secure win, this is the different between competitive and fun, if you are a competitive player, you will use whatever you need to use to win (just dont cheat).

For me I like both playstyles but I like more the competitive playstyle. I want to be a NB because its the class that I like but I also want to win, so what can I do? Use the most efective tactical available for NB, until Devs patch and I will try to figure out the ''best'' build again, thats why I not show my builds, thats how I play most of the games.

But all of this is a choice, you can chose it too, but if you prefer play for fun with funy builds then dont come to the forums whining that the next guy have a better ''build/character/strategy/whatever'' because he is actualy playing for that, to have the best possible...

This isn't your standard MMO, this is ESO who put the lable of "Play how you want" on their game, yeah the tools are there to make the fights easier on you but they shouldn't be required, guess what, I'm a vampire, run swallow soul, argonian with all racials maxed, ritual stone and I'm a vampire and all self healing is sh*t compared to the vampires drain, that makes vampires a requirement for single target builds and that's not how it should be, if I'm stacking every self healing increase in the game it had better damn well work like no other, and it does, in the opposite direction you would expect self heals to go, they give you LESS survivability by taking up a massive amount of space on your 5 slot bar and sacrificing most of your damage and that's not, or it shouldn't be, okay. Good for you to make the most BIS build possible, but just because you try to stack the most powerful abilities in the game at the moment to suit your new FOTM build doesn't mean we all should, if I want to be a high damage single target assassin glass cannon I should be able to do that, but I've said this over and over again it doesn't work, too much glass, not enough cannon.

Well you can actualy play ''how you want'' but the thing is that ''how people want'' isnt necesary going to be as efective as someone that build for pure efectiveness. MMOs will always have min/max buillds/strategys and this isnt going to be the exception... No patch can ''fix'' this because there's nothing to fix, some type of players will always try to figure out the most efective build of every patch... This is how MMOs are...

Doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to make those more under performing builds and skills more effective.

I didnt said that, I said try to use what you have available now (and actualy works) until they release the next patch, then we will see...

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I just wanna come here and say, Nightblades shouldn't be forced into cookie cutter aoe builds or dark shade cheesing in order to be decent and viable, I have built many a single target dps build, I've respecced at least 5 times now, and no build works, more often then not I pop out of stealth, get a kill, and assuming I don't die by that time, I barely escape with even a quarter of my health left if not less, and if I had a video recording program and knew how to make a half decent video, I would show you how *** it is and how easily I'm dying to a group of 3 vet trash mobs, just 3 regular everyday imperials and they're crapping all over me.

Yeah NB shouldnt be forced to use weapons to actualy dmg enemies, I want to fight with my bare hands and do the same aoe as a DK Pyromancer!!!

Actualy I shouldnt be forced to use skills at all, I just want that everything die when I look at it!!!

And I should be able to face tank every mob in the game using light and medium armor!!! NB are broken, the game is unbalance just because an AoE build do more AoE Dmg than a Single Target Build!!! Mages should tank!!! I want my money back!!!

Just sayin, I'm leveling a nightblade tank and do face tank things in light and medium armor. Mages do tank. AoE build's should be good for burning down packs, single target builds should be able to hold their own, every class should have to use skills but shouldn't be forced into using specific skills to be decent, fighting with bare hands should be a viable option for players if they so choose, all classes should be equally viable , certain classes should have their specialties but if I build my nightblade to be a great AoE'r then you're damn right I should be doing just as well at burning down packs as a DK. Just as if you build your Templar to be a great single target assassin he should be able to do that just as well as my nightblade(Except single target assassin builds for nightblades aren't viable so your templar would actually be better at that.)

I think you are confusing single player RPGs with MMOs...

Nope, still thinking bare handed combat should be a legitimate alternative to using a weapon, I could see it done by using your glove slot as a weapon, for sacrificing armor and better enchants, you could enchant them to do damage. I see nothing wrong with that. And are you really going to argue with me all classes should be equal and that while a player who prefers aoe builds over single target builds should just be innately better at soloing? I would argue AoE builds should be more vulnerable in exchange for their massive aoe damage, they should be the glass cannons who deal massive damage but take massive damage while those single target builds should have survivability for sacrificing their ability to burn down packs of mobs at a time.

Yeah thats pretty much how MMOs are, and how are you going to have survivability if you said that you dont like to being forced to use the survavility skills/staretegys whatever, you said you dont like shades, shades are a viable survavility strategy, if you dont like it and you die because of that, well thats your choice but you have the option to survive...

If you want more selfhealing you can be a vampire, you dont like vampires or isnt fun for you and then you die because of that? its your choice, you have the option to be a vampire and have more selfhealing...

There are 2 types of playstyles in every game/life/whatever, the funny thing and actualy doing what you like or the most efective way, it can be boring, you may dislike it but its a secure win, this is the different between competitive and fun, if you are a competitive player, you will use whatever you need to use to win (just dont cheat).

For me I like both playstyles but I like more the competitive playstyle. I want to be a NB because its the class that I like but I also want to win, so what can I do? Use the most efective tactical available for NB, until Devs patch and I will try to figure out the ''best'' build again, thats why I not show my builds, thats how I play most of the games.

But all of this is a choice, you can chose it too, but if you prefer play for fun with funy builds then dont come to the forums whining that the next guy have a better ''build/character/strategy/whatever'' because he is actualy playing for that, to have the best possible...

This isn't your standard MMO, this is ESO who put the lable of "Play how you want" on their game, yeah the tools are there to make the fights easier on you but they shouldn't be required, guess what, I'm a vampire, run swallow soul, argonian with all racials maxed, ritual stone and I'm a vampire and all self healing is sh*t compared to the vampires drain, that makes vampires a requirement for single target builds and that's not how it should be, if I'm stacking every self healing increase in the game it had better damn well work like no other, and it does, in the opposite direction you would expect self heals to go, they give you LESS survivability by taking up a massive amount of space on your 5 slot bar and sacrificing most of your damage and that's not, or it shouldn't be, okay. Good for you to make the most BIS build possible, but just because you try to stack the most powerful abilities in the game at the moment to suit your new FOTM build doesn't mean we all should, if I want to be a high damage single target assassin glass cannon I should be able to do that, but I've said this over and over again it doesn't work, too much glass, not enough cannon.

Well you can actualy play ''how you want'' but the thing is that ''how people want'' isnt necesary going to be as efective as someone that build for pure efectiveness. MMOs will always have min/max buillds/strategys and this isnt going to be the exception... No patch can ''fix'' this because there's nothing to fix, some type of players will always try to figure out the most efective build of every patch... This is how MMOs are...

Doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to make those more under performing builds and skills more effective.

I didnt said that, I said try to use what you have available now (and actualy works) until they release the next patch, then we will see...

No but you are defending the use of cookie cutter builds and pigeon holing people into using skills they otherwise may or may not enjoy just because some skills are under performing, and I'd rather see those skills and builds be made effective rather than sellout and go pick up one your ready to go aoe cookie cutters, because that's not my playstyle, I want to see my playstyle be made viable, I want to be able to at least quest without dying 5 times. I'm going to take the opportunity now to end the conversation as I've things to go do, it's been a pleasure to have this discussion and hope to see you on the battlefields on Cyrodil.

Well then keep whining on the forums and dying in the game XD I can see just 2 possible options, 1. Use what works, doesnt matter if you like it or not until the next patch and then we will see or 2. Unsub until the next patch and then we will see XD

The 3rd option is keep dying XD

They are getting buffed. Read and search for dev interviews for all NB changes. Too many posts here complaining and asking for things that are already being addressed.

Post patch dark shade will actualy deal damage and pretty good one at that however they will be untargetable wich means they will no longuer be usable as a distraction

When you morph it it allows you to teleport to the location you placed the shade. Pretty cool if you ask me.

wretch200 wrote: »

When you morph it it allows you to teleport to the location you placed the shade. Pretty cool if you ask me.

Yeah people tend to forget this. I think it's a pretty fun skill overall.