Comments on 8v8 BG

BXR_Lonestar · November 19

Me and my guild are having fun with the new 8v8 BG format, but after playing it for a bit, it has become apparent to me that there is a major design issue that I wanted to point out. The choice to only allow you to que a 4 man team into 8v8 makes absolutely no sense in the context of an objective-based PVP match. I can coordinate with my own team of 4, but that is not enough if/when the other team's entire team is coordinating and playing together and we are getting outmanned and bullied on the flags. It would be helpful to be able to tell the other players to go try to capture the other objectives since the other team is focusing all on one objective, but since it is not a pre-made team, they are not in party chat with you, and you have no time while you are fighting to type instructions to them.

I get that you want to break up the sweaty teams for 8 v 8, but you are also limiting the ability for you to coordinate with your own team, which can lead to frustrating experiences if/when your own teammates can't figure what they should be doing. I'm speaking from my team's perspective, but I'm going to guess that the other people we are grouped up with are probably thinking the same thing too sometimes.

I think that this design choice may make some sense where you are playing death matches and the only objective is to kill the other team. You could get some super sweaty teams of 8 working together that would be a huge problem. But in objectives-based matches, you need to try to be able to coordinate movement and strategy with your other teammates, and the design choice actually discourages you from doing that. You could, in theory, invite the other players into your xbox party so you can coordinate better, but that also doesn't make any sense when you can't stick together with those players from match to match.

My suggestion here would be to allow a team of 8 to go into 8v8 objective-based matches, but only limit it to 4 man teams when quing in for death matches.

Aldoss · November 19

Won't solve the problem you're mentioning because humans.

100%, you'll end up with a legit 8-man ballgroup that won't care about the objectives, will wipe you, and then spawn camp you.

8v8 needs to remain the casual option and, in my opinion, be only 1 queue that merges both solos and duos. 4s should not be allowed in a casual mode because of how massive the potential for power differential can be.

The 4v4 should be a deathmatch arena, with a competitive MMR leaderboard, and have two queues - solo and group - with respective leaderboards.

BXR_Lonestar · November 20

Aldoss wrote: »

Won't solve the problem you're mentioning because humans.

100%, you'll end up with a legit 8-man ballgroup that won't care about the objectives, will wipe you, and then spawn camp you.

8v8 needs to remain the casual option and, in my opinion, be only 1 queue that merges both solos and duos. 4s should not be allowed in a casual mode because of how massive the potential for power differential can be.

The 4v4 should be a deathmatch arena, with a competitive MMR leaderboard, and have two queues - solo and group - with respective leaderboards.

Then just get rid of objectives-based matches in 8v8 because IMO it makes no sense to have objectives-based games that are going to require some coordination - only to have the matches structured so that you can't coordinate. Those kinds of matches are frustrating.

Aldoss · November 20

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Won't solve the problem you're mentioning because humans.

100%, you'll end up with a legit 8-man ballgroup that won't care about the objectives, will wipe you, and then spawn camp you.

8v8 needs to remain the casual option and, in my opinion, be only 1 queue that merges both solos and duos. 4s should not be allowed in a casual mode because of how massive the potential for power differential can be.

The 4v4 should be a deathmatch arena, with a competitive MMR leaderboard, and have two queues - solo and group - with respective leaderboards.

Then just get rid of objectives-based matches in 8v8 because IMO it makes no sense to have objectives-based games that are going to require some coordination - only to have the matches structured so that you can't coordinate. Those kinds of matches are frustrating.

"Coordination" implies some sort of competitive desire to win, but 8v8 BGs are specifically presented as a "casual" option. If you want an experience where your teammates are more likely to want to play to win, then I'd suggest you move to the 4v4 mode.

fizzylu · November 20

Aldoss wrote: »

"Coordination" implies some sort of competitive desire to win, but 8v8 BGs are specifically presented as a "casual" option. If you want an experience where your teammates are more likely to want to play to win, then I'd suggest you move to the 4v4 mode.

I see plenty of people coordinating to do objectives in 8v8, meanwhile in 4v4 I see plenty of people just giving up and running around aimlessly playing "how long can I make it take to kill me since I can't kill them" or just sitting in spawn.

Also OP is simply not happy that they can't 8 stack.... and I'm sorry, but if some players are struggling to play effectively with 4 teammates they're not grouped/in comms with.... then the problem isn't that it's not "competitive" or that the other players aren't taking it serious enough.

Shourrs · November 20

The new BGs make little sense to me.

The (probably) best: Group 4x4 you can deploy your strategy, coordinate your team and have a real challange. Not for me. I am too bad at BGs and have no time to learn it properly. But this is something that I understand. 4x4x4 with a good group was fun. This could be better for pros. Mediocre should suffer, noobs shouldn't go there.

The unknown for me Group 8x8. I thought it would be fun as a sort of Raid with 2 parties clashing. If I read now that it is a (4+4)x(4+4) at best, I'm not sure. If you want chaos, then a bigger team in voice chat is more fun, isn't it? If you want strategy, a coordinated team is better to play around with. Additional perk: In a team of 8 you can take a noob like me and teach them the ropes. 8x7 can still be okay.

Solo 4x4 needs a well-working ELO system or it won't work. I sometimes queque accidentally for that (as it unfortunately is the standard setting) and can follow my team with some luck. Often it ends up with death screens I don't understand. Frustrating for me and bad for my team.

Group 8x8 should be plain DM. No goals, no mechanics. Just let them clash. I tried for a while but had always to do at least 4 games to be on the winning side. Often more. The reason is that only 1-2 people are playing obectives, 3-4 let distract themselves by stupid fights and the rest is either ganking or afk or in another way useless for the group (exept for DM mode). An ELO-System could help.

I will give it a try during the next pvp-event and hope that ELO will work by then. For now, I abandonded this part of the game (again) as it feels like a waste of time with me going toxic in the end. No need for that.

Stafford197 · November 20

I find as a solo player that I am already struggling to find matches in solo 8v8 queue. Therefore I queue for both solo AND group 8v8 in hopes of finding matches.

Just combine these queues please.

Restricting group size in the group queue ruined the entire point.

Parasaurolophus · November 20

-Matches weren’t as one-sided as I expected, which significantly improved my overall experience. I thought this would happen in every match, but it turned out to be about a third of them. Still, that's a lot, and one team dominating remains the biggest issue with the new battlegrounds.

-Players are not playing the objectives. This is strange. On previous battlegrounds, players did focus on the objectives. I have no idea why this has changed now.

-Cross-healing is too strong. There's already been plenty said about this, so I won’t repeat it here.

-The new battlegrounds feel much less intense compared to the older ones, which genuinely surprised me. I don’t feel as tired or stressed while playing. I can’t quite explain why, though.

-I like the new maps. But the small maps... Just remove them, please.