Teach me your ways, master

BelmontDrakul · November 8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQDVHjTveI

TEACH ME YOUR WAYS, MASTER

Nightblade mage player, here. I am not good at PvP and it hurts me a lot. I was never a good PvP player to begin with per se but; I want to be better. What do you recommend me? My equipment consist of mixture of Wizard's Riposte, Soulcleaver and Maw of the Infernal sets and all of them provides complete bonus. I have transmuted some of them so, all of them except rings gives me Infused bonus. Also; I have changed couple of their enchantments to Truly Superb Glyph of Prismatic Defense. My all pieces are light armor. Also; I am using ice and flame staves as weapons.

I was thinking about playing DPS but; Tanking and Healing is also ok for me. I am familiar with Tanking mechanics from SWTOR, my mentality lies parallel with a tank's actually so; maybe it is the true way for me. [I can change all of my set but not Maw of the Infernal, I love my Daedroth. If I have to change it, it should be another beast set which grants me a temporary pet or at least an effect like meteor shower.]

The problem I encounter is, I always get killed in Imperial City, Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds at the moment they see me. It is infuriating. Stealth does not work. Especially, if a sorcerer sees me, he/she just runs through me like Flash (it is a skill I guess) and disables my cloak. A Nightblade instant-kills me from my back. We have same skill lines but; for some reason he/she beats me easily.

MY EQUIPMENT AND STATS

BelmontDrakul · November 9

Can somebody help me, please?

fred4 · November 10

Soulcleaver can work in PvP. I am using the set, though I do not believe it's meta.

Wizard's Riposte looks like it may work in a group, but Rallying Cry is a better set in the same vein.

I haven't seen the Daedroth set in PvP in some time. I wouldn't use it, certainly not on a nightblade. You can't bring role-playing requirements to PvP and not expect to be steamrolled. Balorgh is typical for an offensive nightblade. Zoal is one of the best defensive options. However you may choose a mythic instead of a monster set, or both a mythic and a monster set, depending on your other set choices and build layout. Good mythics include Wild Hunt, Esoteric Greaves, Oakensoul, Pale Order, Sea Serpent's Coil, Saint and Seducer, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Torc of the Last Ayleid King.

Infused is almost never a good trait. Traits used in PvP include Impenetrable and Well-Fitted. Sometimes Divines or Sturdy, depending on the build. That said, it's not super critical you adjust this. It's not the first thing I would do, unless you're sure of your build and flush with gold and transmutes.

Sharpened weapon is OK on the front bar, e.g. it's meta, but should be gold quality (whereas the armor need not be gold). However most nightblade damage is direct damage, therefore the weapon should be a lightning staff. Ice staff on back bar can be good, but should be Defending or Powered and do not take the Tri Focus passive in the destro staff skill line.

Jewelry ... leaving it Arcane is certainly viable on a magblade, but Infused is probably the most-used trait in PvP. Both Infused and Bloodthirsty can yield the most damage, but Infused is the most flexible, e.g. it lets you adjust your build the most via enchants. That said, I strongly recommend all Swift on a cloaking magblade.

Your mundus stone might be Atronach, Steed, Shadow or ... something else.

Having said all that, it's clear from your post that your main problem is lack of playtime and experience. You can change everything I've outlined above, but you would still feel the exact same, if you did only that. If you had the Torc of the Last Ayleid King, I'd possibly wear that. The dual regen is very good. The damage is good. The mitigation is good. Wearing it would allow you to forget about builds for a while, so you can focus on your skills.

In order of difficulty, from lowest to highest:

Duelling against someone of your own experience level or slightly better than you.
BGs
Cyrodiil
Imperial City

I always recommend duelling. While you should eventually duel different players, duelling lets you focus on one opponent at a time, doing so repeatedly, figuring out how they play, how their class plays, and how you may play yourself. And, yes, sorcs are a magblade's worst enemies.

Cloak, e.g. Shadowy Disguise, does nothing by itself. Yes, it makes you invisible. Sometimes that's enough against a bad opponent or for a brief respite. Generally, however, cloaking only works if you are very fast or if you also use Shadow Image. I recommend speed. Swift jewelry. Celerity CP. Steed's Blessing. Concealed Weapon, even only passively for the speed. Possibly Wild Hunt. Possibly the Steed mundus. Race Against Time. You absolutely, positively need root/snare removal and immunity on a cloaking speed build. The more speed you have, the better Shadowy Disguise works, except against sorcs with a detection potion and other fast nightblades, which may remain a problem.

That said, speed is just one playstyle choice. If you always play from a distance, e.g. you're a bow ganker, you may not need much speed. Indeed, as a ganker or bomber, you want the most damage. You can't afford compromising that too much by going for a lot of speed. On the other hand, if you play a tankier character, especially if you use Dark Cloak instead of Shadowy Disguise, or if you use Shadow Image, you may choose not to build into speed at all.

I play a Breton and take advantage of the (Cloak) cost reduction, thus I don't like Vampire. However Vampire is a strong consideration for the passives:

Quicker crouching and negates the movement speed penalty of Crouch. Thus you can mix Cloak and Crouch more easily, as needed.
Extra damage when you attack from stealth.
Extra mitigation at low health.

Stamina sustain is one of the most effective defensive measures in PvP. Even on a magicka character, dodge rolling is hard to beat once you figure out when to do it and you don't overdo it. You also need stamina to break free, to sprint, to block, and to bash. This is why the two Torc mythic items, mentioned above, are good. This is why many people run dual-regen + health food in PvP, such as Jewels of Misrule. This is why back-barring Wretched Vitality is a good option in PvP. This is why you'll probably slot Siphoning Attacks, even though it costs health and must be used carefully.

Health in PvP should typically be ~30K. If you're experienced or a ganker, you can get away with less as a PvP nightblade. If you are a tanky brawler, you may want more. Higher health makes it harder to be successfully ganked / insta-killed. That said, the all out best gank protection comes from the Esoteric Greaves. They do work well on magblade. Only be aware they have a large impact on how you play. You will need to reserve stamina for the Greaves that you might otherwise spend on blocking or dodge rolling. This may suit a beginner, but while they are powerful, the Greaves are also finnicky in terms of when and for how long they work, and they may leave you with a distorted impression of how you'd normally play.

Finally, line-of-sighting is bread-and-butter in PvP, even on a nightblade and even if you cloak. If you see a sorc, try to anticipate where they may be going and do not stand right in their path, but to the side or behind a pillar, tree, or corner. You want to engage them first, if that's what you choose. If you engage, that ought to always be your choice on a cloaking nightblade. You don't want to be caught with your pants down by a random streaking sorc accidentally exposing you.

BelmontDrakul · November 10

fred4 wrote: »

Soulcleaver can work in PvP. I am using the set, though I do not believe it's meta.

Wizard's Riposte looks like it may work in a group, but Rallying Cry is a better set in the same vein.

I haven't seen the Daedroth set in PvP in some time. I wouldn't use it, certainly not on a nightblade. You can't bring role-playing requirements to PvP and not expect to be steamrolled. Balorgh is typical for an offensive nightblade. Zoal is one of the best defensive options. However you may choose a mythic instead of a monster set, or both a mythic and a monster set, depending on your other set choices and build layout. Good mythics include Wild Hunt, Esoteric Greaves, Oakensoul, Pale Order, Sea Serpent's Coil, Saint and Seducer, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Torc of the Last Ayleid King.

Infused is almost never a good trait. Traits used in PvP include Impenetrable and Well-Fitted. Sometimes Divines or Sturdy, depending on the build. That said, it's not super critical you adjust this. It's not the first thing I would do, unless you're sure of your build and flush with gold and transmutes.

Sharpened weapon is OK on the front bar, e.g. it's meta, but should be gold quality (whereas the armor need not be gold). However most nightblade damage is direct damage, therefore the weapon should be a lightning staff. Ice staff on back bar can be good, but should be Defending or Powered and do not take the Tri Focus passive in the destro staff skill line.

Jewelry ... leaving it Arcane is certainly viable on a magblade, but Infused is probably the most-used trait in PvP. Both Infused and Bloodthirsty can yield the most damage, but Infused is the most flexible, e.g. it lets you adjust your build the most via enchants. That said, I strongly recommend all Swift on a cloaking magblade.

Your mundus stone might be Atronach, Steed, Shadow or ... something else.

Having said all that, it's clear from your post that your main problem is lack of playtime and experience. You can change everything I've outlined above, but you would still feel the exact same, if you did only that. If you had the Torc of the Last Ayleid King, I'd possibly wear that. The dual regen is very good. The damage is good. The mitigation is good. Wearing it would allow you to forget about builds for a while, so you can focus on your skills.

In order of difficulty, from lowest to highest:
Duelling against someone of your own experience level or slightly better than you.

BGs

Cyrodiil

Imperial City

I always recommend duelling. While you should eventually duel different players, duelling lets you focus on one opponent at a time, doing so repeatedly, figuring out how they play, how their class plays, and how you may play yourself. And, yes, sorcs are a magblade's worst enemies.

Cloak, e.g. Shadowy Disguise, does nothing by itself. Yes, it makes you invisible. Sometimes that's enough against a bad opponent or for a brief respite. Generally, however, cloaking only works if you are very fast or if you also use Shadow Image. I recommend speed. Swift jewelry. Celerity CP. Steed's Blessing. Concealed Weapon, even only passively for the speed. Possibly Wild Hunt. Possibly the Steed mundus. Race Against Time. You absolutely, positively need root/snare removal and immunity on a cloaking speed build. The more speed you have, the better Shadowy Disguise works, except against sorcs with a detection potion and other fast nightblades, which may remain a problem.

That said, speed is just one playstyle choice. If you always play from a distance, e.g. you're a bow ganker, you may not need much speed. Indeed, as a ganker or bomber, you want the most damage. You can't afford compromising that too much by going for a lot of speed. On the other hand, if you play a tankier character, especially if you use Dark Cloak instead of Shadowy Disguise, or if you use Shadow Image, you may choose not to build into speed at all.

I play a Breton and take advantage of the (Cloak) cost reduction, thus I don't like Vampire. However Vampire is a strong consideration for the passives:
Quicker crouching and negates the movement speed penalty of Crouch. Thus you can mix Cloak and Crouch more easily, as needed.

Extra damage when you attack from stealth.

Extra mitigation at low health.

Stamina sustain is one of the most effective defensive measures in PvP. Even on a magicka character, dodge rolling is hard to beat once you figure out when to do it and you don't overdo it. You also need stamina to break free, to sprint, to block, and to bash. This is why the two Torc mythic items, mentioned above, are good. This is why many people run dual-regen + health food in PvP, such as Jewels of Misrule. This is why back-barring Wretched Vitality is a good option in PvP. This is why you'll probably slot Siphoning Attacks, even though it costs health and must be used carefully.

Health in PvP should typically be ~30K. If you're experienced or a ganker, you can get away with less as a PvP nightblade. If you are a tanky brawler, you may want more. Higher health makes it harder to be successfully ganked / insta-killed. That said, the all out best gank protection comes from the Esoteric Greaves. They do work well on magblade. Only be aware they have a large impact on how you play. You will need to reserve stamina for the Greaves that you might otherwise spend on blocking or dodge rolling. This may suit a beginner, but while they are powerful, the Greaves are also finnicky in terms of when and for how long they work, and they may leave you with a distorted impression of how you'd normally play.

Finally, line-of-sighting is bread-and-butter in PvP, even on a nightblade and even if you cloak. If you see a sorc, try to anticipate where they may be going and do not stand right in their path, but to the side or behind a pillar, tree, or corner. You want to engage them first, if that's what you choose. If you engage, that ought to always be your choice on a cloaking nightblade. You don't want to be caught with your pants down by a random streaking sorc accidentally exposing you.

Thank you for your information. Can you recommend an alternative to mythic sets because; I do not have access to antiquities system?

fred4 · November 10

I don't play the kind of tanky brawler you're probably looking for, so you'll have to take this with a pinch of salt:

If you're looking for a monster set that produces a pet or effect, you might go for Engine Guardian. It's an annoying set to play against, because it acts as a decoy. Attackers will frequently target the Engine Guardian instead of you.

The prototypical brawler setup is arguably Rallying Cry front bar, Wretched Vitality back bar, using a mixture of light, medium and heavy pieces. Light belt and gloves, heavy chest, possibly Reinforced (chest only), the rest a mixture of Impenetrable and Well-Fitted. Probably 3 light (for the mag sustain), 3 medium, 1 heavy.

Front-barring Rallying Cry only, and back-barring Wretched Vitality, plus a monster set, leaves you with 2 extra slots. Those should be 1x Trainee and 1x Druid's Braid, which will bring up your health.

If you wanted to keep Soulcleaver, you might do that and it would probably suit you to double-bar that set. Typically you'll have Swallow Soul and Sap Essence on the lightning staff front bar in this case, while you'll have Shrewd or Healthy Offering and Siphoning Attacks on the back bar on such a build. In this case you could have Rallying Cry on the back bar and an arena weapon on the front bar, for example a Vateshran lightning staff on the front bar and use Elemental Susceptibility on that bar. Or just double-bar Rallying Cry also.

fred4 · November 10

Come to think of it, if you go for Engine Guardian, then also wearing Wretched Vitality is probably overkill in the sustain department. I'm unsure what to recommend. Pariah is an outright tanking set, but I'm not sure it's still meta. The set I personally use on the back bar is Wyrd Tree's Blessing. It cleanses off sorc curses, Elemental Susceptibility, siege weapon damage and so on. If you use Shadowy Disguise, this can help you to cloak away and stay hidden.

BelmontDrakul · November 10

I have obtained Rallying Cry equipment and changed them with Wizard's Riposte variants. Also I changed their traits with impenetrable ones with Transmutation. Sad thing is, I cannot obtain Balorgh because of DLC barrier.

fred4 · November 10

Balorgh is the offensive option. You could wear 1x Valkyn Skoria + 1x something else instead, something that also gives you penetration, weapon damage or mag+stam regen (Magma Incarnate, Baron Thirsk). Also, like I said, full Engine Guardian or full Zoal would work for defense.

Rallying Cry is a better set than Wizard's Riposte, but don't expect much from this change alone. Learning to play / duel is the most important thing. ESO has a large skill component. If you group up with other players, or you are in a BG, you will have some success regardless, but nothing beats combat experience.

SkaraMinoc · November 10

RonFSwanson wrote: »

MY EQUIPMENT AND STATS

FYI you can install the Superstar addon to see your build on a single screen.

seventyfive · November 11

Tempting thread start, it's always fun to give advice, as clearly apparent by the response so far.

A couple short things I might add before I get into other things: Maw of the Infernal is actually a strong monster set in pvp. I believe decimus ranks it pretty high in his tier list as well, if I remember correctly. So you don't necessarily need to swap it out.

One mythic I strongly suggest is Gaze of Sithis. It's allowed by the devs to be very dense in raw stats because it also disables blocking. That's a very good trade off for most people, because 80% of the playerbase either do not block, ever, or end up sabotaging themselves whenever they do block because they run out of stamina and then can't dodge or break.

(With gaze of sithis, you however can't run a full monster set, since the gaze is a helmet piece.)

Here's what I consider a very good balance between easy and effective (and therefore very strong for a significant majority of the playerbase) on any class, with a magicka focus:

1x Heavy - Gaze of Sithis (Helmet)
1x Medium - Magma Incarnate (Shoulder)
5x Light - Buffer of the Swift (Body Pieces)
5x Jewellry/Weapon - Rattlecage

7x Well Fitted on armor pieces
3x Swift-trait on jewellry
7x Tri-Stat glyphs on armor.
Any damage glyph on weapons: poison, flame, shock.

Sharpened Lightning staff,
Powered Two-Handed Sword

Atronach mundus.
Clockwork Citrus Filet.
Balance between Damage and Recovery glyphs on jewellry based on how you experience your sustain,
and whether your Race has built in sustain or not.

Frontbar:
- 1 Ranged (!) Spammable (Wield Soul is strong on all classes, configure it with Anchorite's Cruelty and Major Defile)
- 1 Specific ability: Elemental Susceptibility. Completely free (!) Multi-Debuff & DOT combined.
- 1 offensive ability that also has Utility built in, usually in the form of Stun / Immobilize / Slow
- 2 other offensive abilities of your choosing. Prioritize reliability and magicka cost!

Backbar:
- 1 Mobility (Race Against Time)
- 1 Burst Heal
- 1 Heal over Time
- 1 Armor ability that gives Major Resolve and something else
- 1 other defensive or buff ability of your choosing. Once again, prioritize reliability and magicka cost!

What makes this build easy to play?
- Rattlecage removes the need to waste 1 ability slot on what usually is a subpar ability overall, which gives you more freedom to build to your own playstyle. It also removes the strain of having to keep track of an important buff.

- Solid stamina sustain for being a magicka build, which creates breathing room for mistakes.
You can usually afford to dodge roll multiple times in a row and still have stamina left to Break Free.
Remember to dodge roll. Cost is around 2000 with 5x light, 1x medium, 1x heavy and 7x Well Fitted.
Cost increase of 33% only increases it by 700 each time you do it in rapid succession.
And Break Free cost is down to 4000 instead of the base 5400.

- Very good magicka sustain. In general, light armor bonuses are stronger than heavy armor bonuses. We make light armor easy to play by choosing Buffer Of The Swift as the light set.
...

Did I forget something? Probably did. Ask me.

fred4 · November 11

seventyfive wrote: »

Tempting thread start, it's always fun to give advice, as clearly apparent by the response so far.

Well. It's also fun to argue. I'm going to "have to" pretty heavily critique your post. I'm afraid this will confuse the hell out of the OP. To them I can only reemphasize how important skill and experience is in ESO PvP. It makes, by far, the biggest difference. I would stick with what you've got for a while and just play.

A couple short things I might add before I get into other things: Maw of the Infernal is actually a strong monster set in pvp. I believe decimus ranks it pretty high in his tier list as well, if I remember correctly. So you don't necessarily need to swap it out.

Bear in mind the OP is a nightblade, undecided on playstyle. They tried cloaking, only it didn't work for them yet. I don't see Maw fitting in with a cloaking playstyle. Also Maw works on a pet sorc, because it gets buffed by Daedric Prey, a skill nightblade doesn't have.

One mythic I strongly suggest is Gaze of Sithis. It's allowed by the devs to be very dense in raw stats because it also disables blocking. That's a very good trade off for most people, because 80% of the playerbase either do not block, ever, or end up sabotaging themselves whenever they do block because they run out of stamina and then can't dodge or break.

In my experience Gaze of Sithis is ultimately a waste. Blocking is too powerful to ignore. At the very least it didn't fit with my established habits. What you gain from Gaze at one time is offset by not being able to block at another. I can see how your nightblade may be dodge rolling a lot instead, and cloaking. Rolling is par for the course on a (stamina) nightblade, but then again you kept your skill selection general, e.g. your advice is for every class. That's fine if you really like to play that way, but I would encourage the OP learn core combat to the full. That includes blocking.

The OP has already been running an ice staff on the back bar. That is key. Yes, inexperience will cause you to run out of stamina, but block-casting Shrewd/Healthy Offering, even spamming it a few times, is a strategy that works well on magblade with a blocking weapon.

Here's what I consider a very good balance between easy and effective (and therefore very strong for a significant majority of the playerbase) on any class, with a magicka focus:

1x Heavy - Gaze of Sithis (Helmet)
1x Medium - Magma Incarnate (Shoulder)
5x Light - Buffer of the Swift (Body Pieces)
5x Jewellry/Weapon - Rattlecage

Rattlecage removes the need to waste 1 ability slot on what usually is a subpar ability overall, which gives you more freedom to build to your own playstyle. It also removes the strain of having to keep track of an important buff.

Again I'll say that you can glean how the OP has been playing from their original set choices. They've been using Soulcleaver. That means they've been using Sap Essence or Power Extraction pretty much by definition. This is a choice I agree with, e.g. to kill dodge rollers and for the PvPvE of IC. As long as they don't deviate too much from where they started, Rattlecage is redundant. If you're a magblade wearing Soulcleaver, you would stick with Sap Essence. If you're a Brawlerblade, Power Extraction is quite meta, due to the further weapon/spell damage it gives, regardless of what you're wearing. The "more freedom" argument doesn't really apply to the OP.

7x Well Fitted on armor pieces
3x Swift-trait on jewellry
7x Tri-Stat glyphs on armor.
Any damage glyph on weapons: poison, flame, shock.

Sharpened Lightning staff,

I'm not going to argue too much about Buffer of the Swft. It fits within your build. The 2 lines of armor build on the armor from Gaze of Sithis. In my experience, if you pay attention to armor, you want to get it up above the 25K mark at the very least. To the OP I will say: "You cannot pick and choose". Seventyfive's template is cohesive. Gaze of Sithis and Buffer of the Swift go together for a light armor build approach. This, however, is a build that is heavy on dodge rolling and light on crit resist. It seems to very much arise from Seventyfive's playstyle, which eschews blocking, but embraces dodge rolling. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not convinced his advice is as general as he says.

Powered Two-Handed Sword

That's an odd choice in the context of Rattlecage. I thought, for sure, you were leading into using Rally and Siphoning Attacks for perma-cloaking, but no. Without you mentioning Rally, it doesn't really do anything on your back bar. It's simply the most bang for your heal? Absent Gaze of Sithis or other requirements (perma-cloaking while moving), I would run a blocking weapon on the back bar (not even a resto staff). My second choice would probably be a bow for the automatic dodge roll speed gain and for activating the back bar enchant from range.

Frontbar:
- 1 Ranged (!) Spammable (Wield Soul is strong on all classes, configure it with Anchorite's Cruelty and Major Defile)

I agree that everything is stronger against players than Swallow Soul, including scribed, Crushing Shock and Imbue Weapon. However, the OP was wearing Soulcleaver. That set brings Swallow Soul up to par (just), and magblade doesn't have any other heal over time. If you play in Imperial City, Swallow Soul / Soulcleaver is well suited. I've seen 3K heal ticks from hitting NPCs. It's possible to standardise your build on using that skill, which is what I currently do for Cyro also.

Backbar:
- 1 Heal over Time

And what would that be on a nightblade with a greatsword? This is one of the reasons I run a (usually) weak skill (Swallow Soul) and Soulcleaver on my front bar. Not saying that set is the be all and end all, far from it, only the OP has already been running it also.

EDIT: Yeah, OK, Vigor or Dark Cloak. My own bias against those skills is showing due to the specific way I build my magblade.

- Solid stamina sustain for being a magicka build, which creates breathing room for mistakes.

Where is that stamina sustain coming from? 1x Magma Incarnate is IMO not enough. A jewelry enchant? CP? All Well-Fitted? Your race? Maybe. I tend to run dual-regen food and need stamina regen at 1K at the very least, preferably a bit more. Nowadays there's also Siphoning Attacks, but it's dangerous to use that actively in combat. I tend to use that skill only in cloak or with line-of-sighting.

Veinblood1965 · November 11

My main PVP toon is a nightblade and not bragging but I'm very good at it. The class does take a while to master. My first PVP character was a sorc and compared to playing a nightblade, the sorc is easier when you are first starting as sorcs spell lines are very direct, you can heal, shield, port, nuke etc quite well with half the playtime involved to learn compared to a NB.

If you can, get a set of tarnished nightmare, it helps a little in your damage, and add a set of viscous death. If you don't use a monster helm you can have BOTH of these sets active at the SAME time. VERY deadly in a group.

My recommendation is to start out with using a BOW for your NB, that way you are not right in the middle of battles and be be in a group as much as possible while learning all the NB skills, especially cloak. Also be a vampire and run stage four as you can use cloak to get away and once you get a few seconds running away you are invis without even using a skill. When you are a new NB in your face fighting is tough, you'll die all the time which is frustrating. Dying a lot for two months is NOT fun, get a bow!

Use the bow ultimate Toxic Barrage, use that along with Lethal Arrow and Poison Injection bow skills. VERY deadly to low health opponents. If you can at some point get a mythic Oakensoul ring you can run a one bar build that is very effective.

Be wary of anyone who has HIGH HEALTH that you simply cannot kill even if they just stand there in front of you and block and shield. Those people take a group to take down.

Get yourself some invisibility potions and some detection potions. There are invisibility potions that also give you like 10k health when you use them. Good to use when you are new. You can get away and heal at the same time.

Be aware of your surroundings, ALWAYS make a point to not fight out in the open until you are good. If someone is after you, run around trees, rocks, corners while you are cloaking enough to get away. If you are in a keep and someone is after you run around a corner, then wait a sec and run back out the same door as they run in and as they turn around to run back out after you do it again. It throws them off and just keep doing that, you'll be surprised at how easily it is to get away. Roll/Dodge as much as you can, it uses Stamina.

I currently run one jewellery piece with increase stamina regen and the other with two with weapon damage and stamina regen. I recommend starting with three stamina regen glyphs and the mundus stone stam reg and if you find yourself having extra resources switch one out to something else and one more later on. You do loose a bit of direct damage with this but it's worth it to not be dying all the time. Start out with stam regen mundus stone. Remember, you are picking on low health opponents when solo, the little bit of damage lost isn't much. When in a group as a bow player you are picking off those the group is after anyway. You are not going to be able to kill everything that moves anyway. At first change your build so you do not die all the time, you'll have more fun. Then adjust it to more and more damage be switching out glyphs and traits and mundus as you learn. Less stam reg, more weapon damage, more offensive stuff AFTER you get better. Right now with the exception of the one stam regen jewelry my entire build is to pump out all the damage I can without any defence. I'm using the other skills like dodge, sneak, line of site, etc to save me.

GET comfortable using the Shadow Image skill. It is your bread and butter combined with cloak your almost impossible to catch unless a large group is after you. I like it when someone is after me, I jump out of a keep, they jump out after me and I port back in. Things like that.

ONCE you get comfortable with these things you can then switch out to dual wield or other in your face weapons and go toe to toe with anyone. I am now running duel wield and hardly play the bow anymore. But the things I learned above makes me tough to kill and I hit hard. I still can't take anyone on above 40k health unless they are new solo but that's just the way it is. Usually anything above 40k health we both end up just walking off after trying to kill each other for a minute or two.

ONCE you get comfortable it almost does not matter (I said almost) which set you use, you could almost play naked and be hard to kill.

The thing is that once you get good with a NB you can play any class and use all of this to enhance your play with those. I was quite viscous with my sorc when I played him originally and now when I do adding in these other things he's even harder to kill.

Good luck. NB is my funnest class but definitely has a high learning curve.

Start out learning how to not be seen. Get in a group whenever possible. Get a bow.

seventyfive · November 11

fred4 wrote: »

<removed to save space>

Regarding dodging and blocking,
I think this is ultimately a matter of preference. They both cost stamina and are both used for survivability.
The more you use one of them, the less you can use the other one. I emphasize dodge, you may emphasize block.

My suggested build was written very generally, with neither specifically nightblade nor (evidently not) soulcleaver in mind.

If the goal is to just minimize what actions are required to survive, I'd just try to get close to armor cap and put what's rest of the build capabilities into sustain.

I'd be happy to argue about meta builds, but I don't find much enjoyment in defending a build I mainly created with ease of playability in mind. If others don't find it easy to play, I would strongly recommend against it.
Because that's the main upside of it. It really doesn't excell at anything else.

fred4 · November 11

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Be aware of your surroundings, ALWAYS make a point to not fight out in the open until you are good.

To elaborate on where to play as a cloaking nightblade, in order of preference from best to worst:

Semi-open spaces, e.g. places with some trees, rocks, buildings, corners, ruins, with multiple ways to run.
Wide open spaces.
Cramped spaces, such as resource towers, albeit see below regarding types of nightblades.
Straight, narrow corridors. Example: Imperial City Elven Gardens, around the flag.

Semi-open spaces are ideal for everyone. There are line-of-sight opportunities, but there's also enough space to catch someone out.

I actually think magblade can thrive in wide open spaces, just so long as you are fast and you have ways of extending or sustaining your invisibility. You are most vulnerable to sorcs in those spaces, but other players are vulnerable to your speed and ranged attacks too. They don't have a place to run, whereas you can cloak. The reason this works well is that you have a full 360 degrees of direction change available, once you cloak. It makes you hard to predict.

Cramped spaces, on the other hand, are the domain of the tanky 1vXers. Rock crevices, resource towers and the like. A good player knows their limitations and will retreat to the infamous gaps between stairs and the wall in IC, even when they're tanky. Or especially so, when attacked by multiple opponents. As a typical, squishy nightblade you are vulnerable to the AOEs those classes tend to run. The Dawnbreakers, Shalks, warden ice ults, and so on. It's fine if you are a tanky brawlerblade yourself. It's probably fine if you use Shadow Image vertically in a resource tower. As a pure, cloaking, speed-based build, not so much.

Finally narrow corridors are the worst, because it's utterly predictable where you are when trying to disengage with cloak. This applies to some locations in IC. Only Shadow Image would allow you to teleport backwards. Aside from the sewers, an example is the flag in Elven Gardens. You have quite good leeway moving forward to the columns and two building entrances. To the sides, though, is quite deadly if you are being pursued. Elven Gardens lacks the underpass and nooks that are usually there. Only a straight walk with an uneven surface at the bottom level. A streaking sorc will hit you every time.

fred4 · November 11

seventyfive wrote: »

I'd be happy to argue about meta builds, but I don't find much enjoyment in defending a build I mainly created with ease of playability in mind.

That's fair and your build is probably easy to play. The main reason I hesitate is that blocking is typically a lot cheaper than rolling and doesn't incur a ramping cost. That said, you've done everything in your build to mitigate that.

tsaescishoeshiner · November 12

For battlegrounds, I'm using Soulcleaver frontbar + Rallying Cry backbar (which you can get at traders) for a tanky NB healer build. 38k health, 1400 magicka recovery. For monster helm, I really enjoy Ozezan the Inferno. I use Torc of Tonal Constancy Mythic, but you don't need it.

My frontbar is all Siphoning skills with Wield Soul (shielding, Major Vitality) instead of Crippling Grasp (which I don't think is good). Backbar is AoE heals, buffs, and a stun. I regularly get 1 mil healing with 300k damage, more in 8v8 or certain game modes. It's not a perfect build or one worth writing an article about, but it works and provides a couple of debuffs.

In my case, I can't 1v1 anyone but I can solo heal a group through a 4v4 encounter while debuffing enemies and providing some AoE. The hard part is not being caught out of position!

For IC and Cyrodiil, you want to be tanky (30k armor?) and fast, usually with Shield or Ice Staff to block. Obviously some people run gankers, too, but your experience might vary. I've enjoyed playing as a group healer. It might be a while before you can 1v1 or draw with those bursty sorcs--the short-term goal would be to last longer against them, which often requires doing enough damage to get them on the backfoot (which my healer build can't do).