PTS Update 44 - Feedback Thread for Intro Quest and Tutorial Updates

ZOS_Kevin · September 16

This is the official feedback thread for the Intro Base Game Quest and Tutorial Updates. Specifically, the focus is on the tutorial changes throughout the intro quest. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?
What are your feelings abut the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
Skipping should provide you with 2 skill points (quest completion) plus 1 partial skill point (the skyshard that is present in there), plus the skill points you would get for performing the two level-ups you get.
Did you feel you exited the tutorial understanding the very basics of what is needed to play the game? What do you think needs more elaboration?
Do you have any other general feedback?

DoofusMax · September 16

I just posted some, but this thread wasn't up when I started writing. Feel free to move that in here where it belongs.

Galagladi Dragonblood · September 16

I Just played the tutorial and im not amused about it. Because right now you destroy new player experience as you wanted 4 years ago. The Theme "Play how you like" does not really reflect anymore. Sure for the Playstyle may fit this theme but not for the experience right now. My Suggestion...

Let the Quest “Gates of Adamant” exist as side quest after the Tutorial and let the player deside if they want to do it or not. Remove the Tutorials from this quest or those clips but let this available for the new player.

This is an experience for like 40% or 50% of the player right now which will be just gone. So pls reconsider your take on this.

Besides...

- If you encouter the Questgiver for the same quest a the new/old Tutorial, You play the tutorial a second time.
- If you enter a Tutorial Scene after you stand between Lyris and the enemy, you can get stuck in the scene and your character is Basically useless.

ESO_Nightingale · September 17

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?

Yes! Firstly, i want to thank you for bringing back the original tutorial. i got really nostalgic playing it and its by far the best tutorial experience you've ever done. i love it and i am so glad its back, however, now that the game has evolved over time its time to update one key portion of it. the combat tutorial.

i think that when you unlock a skill, you should be given a clear tutorial on how to weave like how it shows you to interrupt, block and heavy attack on those daedric enemies near the start when lyris breaks you out of the cell. there should be a clear message like

"attack between skill casts to deal more damage!"

the game should give you soul trap first to do the tutorial (instead of as a reward at the end of the tutorial) and then teach you how to weave next. an issue with finishing the tutorial segment of the game is that the game says you unlock soul magic and gives you soul trap for free, yet i don't see new players utilising the skill at all because its not obvious enough that they have it. making the player interract with soul trap in the combat tutorial would solve both problems with the tutorial. and teach people how to equip skills at the same time

having weaving only taught by the game via a loading screen is not effective enough. it should be told to the player from the very beginning when learning combat. whether or not they want to utilise it after that is up to them, but it should be taught to you nearly immediately.

I actually think you should get soul trap and the level up right before the boss enemy after the tutorial so you have 2 skills and light attacks to weave and practice on the boss.

Aliyavana · September 17

In terms of chronology, it makes sense to start in coldharbour. However, its a loss to not be able to access balfiera anymore. The ayleids despite not inhabiting high rock until much later have too many ayleid ruins in the province, with the direnni not really having anything any presence via ruins in comparison. with balfiera gone, we get less direnni content now. I hope we revisit the island once again in the future.

RaddlemanNumber7 · September 17

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?
Balfiera was a better tutorial for combat basics. All in one sequence, coherent. Norianwe's commentary and verbal prompts were very helpful.
The coldharbour combat basics tutorials are clunky, fragmented and feel quite unclear with only the text prompts. No one actually tells you they're tutorials. The player just gets locked inside that blue swirl with one, and only one, control they can/must press.

What are your feelings abut the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
I used a Sorc. Lightning staff and twin daggers are ideal.

Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
Yes.

Skipping should provide you with 2 skill points (quest completion) plus 1 partial skill point (the skyshard that is present in there), plus the skill points you would get for performing the two level-ups you get.
That's what I got.

Did you feel you exited the tutorial understanding the very basics of what is needed to play the game? What do you think needs more elaboration?
Include roll dodge in the tutorials. The double tap trigger is less than obvious. When using mouse and keyboard the Roll Dodge command is not bound to any control. I was being prompted to roll dodge in combat. A bit confusing for a new player I should think.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Not happy about being locked into the Vestige persona and the base game start. Balfiera was ideal for making our own choices.
What happened to players being able to start in the new Chapter they just bought? There are going to more Chapters, right?

chessalavakia_ESO · September 17

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?

Vaekar the Forgemaster didn't seem to instruct the player on how to roll dodge.

The Watcher in the stealth portion may be able to kill players that are totally new to games.

The tutorial sections make Lyris look unimpressive as to force the player to act she's stuck being put out of the action multiple times.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I prefer the Gates of Adamant to the current starter.

GeneralEU · September 18

Do you have any other general feedback?

In my opinion, this refreshed tutorial does the job, but in my opinion, when I make a second character, it would be possible, after using SKIP, to move the player to the Gates of Adamant, so that the starting location could be chosen.

Pevey · September 18

I love the focus on improving the experience for new players.

What are your feelings abut the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
Axes and ice staves are bad choices, IMO. This steers players in the wrong direction from the outset. It would be wonderful if these weapons were actually on par with others for any class, but they are not.

Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
Will characters created before this change who skipped the tutorial ever be able to get those missing skill points?

Do you have any other general feedback?

1. I personally don't love the aesthetics of Coldharbour and the main quest, and that turned me off ESO for a long while. I think some of the newer zones and their tutorial quests make a much better first impression. HOWEVER, having recently watched my son go through the current tutorial quest, and seeing how utterly confused he was, I think picking a single starter quest for everyone is best.

2. In addition to the intro tutorial, I feel like a big factor in whether players stick around is movement speed. This might seem like a minor quibble, but it's not. It's a really big factor for a lot of people. Especially when you have end game players zooming around with CP bonuses and Ring of the Wild Hunt and fully maxed mounts. My son gets so frustrated playing with me because even when he's sprinting, I outpace him. And of course he can't sprint, because new players also have absolutely terrible sustain. I had forgotten how this feels as a new player. It's like you are swimming against the current while everyone else is zooming along. I definitely don't think other players should be slowed down, or everyone would feel terrible. The default movement speed in the game, both mounted and otherwise, feels punitive and unfun.

EDIT to add:
3. Mundus Stones. In the Skyrim intro quest, if you walk to Riverwood with the guy you choose to save, you walk by 3 mundus stones (Warrior, Thief, and Mage), and he explains a little about what they are. It would be great if ESO did something similar. Maybe have two stones, the Atronach and the Serpent, so that would help with the sustain issue. And the tutorial could explain that more of these can be found throughout Tamriel. I can't tell you how many players already in low CP levels I have seen in dungeons with no mundus boon. Do they not know they exist, or is it just a fluke with a new toon? Hard to tell.

yachoor · September 18

Steps were taken to ensure Skill Point parity for players who were in various states of completion for Gates of Adamant and/or Soul Shriven in Coldharbour. Specifically:

If you create a new character from scratch, since Gates of Adamant is no longer accessible, you will receive two skill points upon completing or skipping Soul Shriven in Coldharbour (plus the partial skill point you would get for claiming the skyshard in there).
If you have completed Gates of Adamant on a given character, but not Soul Shriven in Coldharbour, you will receive only one skill point for completing the latter when you get around to doing it (and will get the partial skill point from the skyshard as normal).
If you are still in Gates of Adamant when this change rolls out and complete it, the previous bullet point still applies (you won’t get “more” skill points by setting yourself up to be in this state).

What about characters that already completed Soul Shriven in Coldharbour, but never did Gates of Adamant or any other tutorial because there was none available yet at that point (pre-Morrowind)? My main character is missing that skill point...

Olav_the_Stout · September 18

During the Lyris conversation (continue through the bleeding forge) where she talks about the Prophet, it would have a nicer flow if you could go from "Who is this Prophet?" to "How can we rescue the Prophet?" without having to go back through all of the dialogue choices a second time.

Lock picking Force Lock(#) missing % sign, not sure if that was always like that.

Considering most of the combat tutorial steps are in threes, the environmental trap of being frozen only happens once to break free. Maybe have an additional time the character gets frozen?

OtarTheMad · September 19

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?
Feels fine, pretty much like the old Coldharbour tutorial.

What are your feelings about the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
I feel like these choices worked against the "play as you want" model and may confuse new players into thinking that they are stuck with those weapons. It would be better if while escaping we ran into some armory and equipped whatever weapon we wanted.

Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
I didn't skip, but I will next time to see.

Skipping should provide you with 2 skill points (quest completion) plus 1 partial skill point (the skyshard that is present in there), plus the skill points you would get for performing the two level-ups you get.
See above.

Did you feel you exited the tutorial understanding the very basics of what is needed to play the game? What do you think needs more elaboration?
Yes

Do you have any other general feedback?
This should have always been the tutorial with the chapters coming with an introductory quest so that we didn't lose access to areas or content when a new chapter dropped. I know we can visit Firemoth Island of Vvardenfell and The Mind and Eldbur Ruins of Summerset but what about Elsweyr and Western Skyrim tutorial areas? Western Skyrim's tutorial area is a huge Nordic Ruin that was also in the Skyrim game and I can only guess players would love to go back... plus like I mentioned it's absolutely huge... basically the size of a city and it's gone now. I feel like those were wastes and should have just been an introductory quest... similar to how you had the Hooded Figure quest but instead it's for the chapters. That's how it should have been all along. Coldharbour Tutorial and then if you enter the chapter zone for the first time you get a message and are asked to visit some place.. boom... knocked on the head and you go to a cut scene that begins the chapter story, you have to reclaim your stuff and get out.

I get changing the tutorial each year so new players felt welcome to try the new stuff but so many players, from what I noticed, didn't have the slightest clue about the main story of the whole game. Broken record time but it should have been reverse where the chapter had the message and hooded figure and cut scene and the Coldharbour tutorial was just updated based on combat changes and feedback.

TheRimOfTheSky · September 19

Please bring back Michael Gambon's narration as the Prophet

robertlabrie · September 20

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?
Less tedious than the ones from the previous tutorial but I'm an experienced player so I can't say for certain that they teach all mechanics. I still can't parse 120k on the trial dummy so maybe needs more work

What are your feelings abut the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
Warden got ice staff and dual axes. Seems fine. You don't have enough XP or skill points to unlock any abilities anyway. You should still place a "rack of everything" early on I think like the old tutorial but don't have Lyris force it.

Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
NA
Skipping should provide you with 2 skill points (quest completion) plus 1 partial skill point (the skyshard that is present in there), plus the skill points you would get for performing the two level-ups you get.
NA
Did you feel you exited the tutorial understanding the very basics of what is needed to play the game? What do you think needs more elaboration?
Yes. The on screen prompts without an NPC nagging feel appropriate and there are many more combat opportunities in the wailing prison to practice.
Do you have any other general feedback?
This should always have been the tutorial it will be far less confusing for new players. Next you need to add a progression tracker to the character screen so players have a rough idea of where they should go next - both in their base game progression and for the additional chapters. ESO has payoffs in Necrom going all the way back to Vvardenfell - IF you play the game in order. Players who want an open world still get it as soon as they're done with their starter zone. Overall this is a necessary improvement to make this gigantic game more approachable.

Of course, I do wish I could go back to Firemoth Island on more time.

The new dialog for the prophet felt a bit off was all of the dialog re-recorded or just the new bits? The patch notes don't say

robertlabrie · September 20

Ideally players would get to choose their starting quest from a menu either to experience the content, to jump into the new chapter they purchased, or to play the game chronologically.

James-Wayne · September 20

The tutorial was the very first thing I checked out on PTS, I was that keen to see what the changes were for new players.

Do you have any feedback on the combat tutorial sequences?
Combat was fine and everything a new player would need is there except weaving. You have consistently left weaving in the game for years now and even promoted it yet its not included in the combat tutorial. Personally I like weaving because it doesnt happen in AUS because of the ping rate but you need to decide if this is part of the game or not. If it, provide new players a way to engage with it starting with the tutorial.

What are your feelings about the first and second weapon sets given to your class?
I only ever saw one weapon, 2H for Templar. Personally I like the idea of laying all the different weapons out at the start so you can pick up what you want. I dont like being forced into a playstyle. I like choices. If I was a new player I would be thinking lets play Templar because I like that Paladin feel. I get in the game, looking for a sword and board and get a 2H. I dont want to be Conan the Barbarian thats more for a DK. Please dont restrict the options as this new player experience is ultimately setting someone up for potentially the rest of the game and if they are playing something they just dont like they will stop playing. Perhaps put the other weapons on dead bodies/skeletons in other jail cells to find in that first room.

Does skipping the tutorial provide you with all the rewards you would expect it to (e.g. skill points, quest completion states, etc.)?
I did not try skipping.

Did you feel you exited the tutorial understanding the very basics of what is needed to play the game? What do you think needs more elaboration?
Everything was covered (aside from weaving above) and also except using different weapon types and understanding melee vs ranged combat.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I thought you were going to rebuild this first tutorial and make it a new experience but sadly that isnt the case. Sure the zone was changed in terms of content and environment, evening adding chests to try your locking picking out but I was expecting a full redone tutorial but in the same daedric theme. I still like the other tutorial with the portals because it gives you that choose your own adventure style.

If your set on the first tutorial can we maybe take the player to the tower where you can still choose what portal you want? I loved that tutorial, was so cool being able to see the different biomes and think maybe I will start my journey here.

tomofhyrule · October 2

I'm very happy with the tutorial as it is now.

While the Balfiera one was good, it did tend to break the story by leaving it all feel a bit too open, so the idea that brand new players would be encouraged to know at the very least the first part of the main quest does fix those lore issues. I understand that this makes it more difficult to go to whichever Chapter zone you want on demand (you have to know you can find a wayshrine to port there), but then again the fact that that you don't feel railroaded into the latest Chapter is an improvement... and the fact that if it's going to feel railroady that at least it railroads into the main quest is good.

I do wish we could choose our weapon instead of it being dictated by class though. Maybe if the array of weapons were left on the floor of the room right outside of the cell so we could start by choosing whichever weapon we wanted would be better. I did enjoy the fact that the Balfiera tutorial let us choose a weapon to use instead of forcing us into a specific one like the previous tutorials did.

I was also pleasantly surprised at the new sneak tutorial including the hidey barrels. That made it much more interesting. I also think the starting in 3rd person is very important as well, as I have a feeling that people who resolutely play in 1st are not getting as good of an experience because they're missing things and other visuals are then much harder to see (and see around).

The major feedback I have with this though is: it'd be great if seasoned players would have a reason to do it again...
For many players, we've got a full roster and we're not likely to delete a character to just make a new one. I do love the new character process though, and I'd love an excuse to do it again. Especially since I have a great idea that I'd love to get down.

Please, by the love of every Divine, I am begging that we have a new Class coming up. I don't even care what it is at this point, I just want a reason to make another character to experience this again. It felt so great to be able to replay the old tutorial again and brought me quite a bit of nostalgia. And I know that nothing will make me preorder the next Chapter faster than an announcement of "We're adding another new class!"
Besides, the 7 classes on the Creation screen feels a bit lopsided and odd. Wouldn't eight be so much more balanced?

Ajaxandriel · November 9

The Balfiera zone should be the default Starter zone for people who have already leveled a character while the current old Coldharbor tuto could be for new players - or players without an owned chapter.

Actually each Starter zone should be choseable by veteran players, including Morrowind's, Summerset's and Greymoor's.