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Team vs Team BGs are great... but there's some issues

Decimus
Decimus
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Now that the BG rework has made it to the Live server and we've had a chance to try them out, I believe it's time for feedback.

First of all, the team vs team format definitely feels like a step in the right direction - there's been some really fun matches already, particularly (and maybe somewhat surprisingly) in 8v8!

8v8 kind of feels closer to a Cyrodiil fight, but more balanced and with some surprises that allow for fun, memorable moments like bombing stacked players with the Damage Sigil active.

4v4 also feels more balanced than the previous 3-way deathmatches, but perhaps suffers slightly more from bad matchmaking (more on that later) than the 8v8 format.

The new maps are great in both 4v4 and 8v8, I don't find many points of criticism there (yet)... maybe in the medieval town 8v8 map there could be fences or terrain instead of invisible walls to prevent movement to unintended areas.


The issues:
  1. Leaderboard based on time spent (medal score farmed), rather than average performance. We shouldn't be competing over who can spend the most time doing the content (on one character only, as the score is character based as well), we should be competing over who has the best performance.
  2. Matchmaking. See above - there's been statements about win/loss ratio affecting MMR, but remains to be seen if this is actually functional or not. Last patch this system was not functional, so unless it was changed we'll run into the same issues where playing enough = you're in "max MMR".
  3. The meta. Some games can become incredibly grindy and slow, usually as a result of there being a lot of healers and crosshealing in the battleground.
  4. "Ball group tactics" in 8v8 - people stacking in one spot (usually below opponent team's spawn) and no one dying because of the amount of heals and crossheals.

The solutions:
  1. We need a rework of the medal score system, or having something else for leaderboards. There already is an actual competitive leaderboard in the game: Tales of Tribute leaderboard. When playing ToT, you lose rating when you lose - based on your opponents rating. BGs could use a similar system, where rating is determined by a combination of KDR, Healing Done, Damage Done and Damage Taken (this last part is not currently visible on the scoreboard) and you gain/lose rating based on opponents' average rating.
  2. A properly functioning MMR system would already improve a lot of the one sided matchmaking issues where you either stomp the opponent team or can't do anything. Another thing that could help is considering a "shuffle" system in the 4v4 solo queue deathmatches, where players in the lobby get shuffled between teams between rounds. This gives more individual agency to do well and have fun for the solo queuer, where the amount of fun to be had isn't determined by the lobby before the game even begins.
  3. A lot of the issues with no one dying in 4v4 because of the amount of defense and heals can be solved with something a lot of other MMOs use to combat this problem: a heal dampening effect that gets stronger the longer a match is going on.
  4. The heal/crossheal issue in 8v8 deathmatch could be alleviated by having damage sigils spawn in their usual spots during this game mode. Damage sigils should allow for people to get through all the healing and have fun in the match even if one team is dominant and camping the spawn of the other.


I hope over the coming updates these new battlegrounds keep being supported with positive changes - I understand not everything can be perfect straight away, but since we're moving in the right direction let's keep doing so and BGs will be fun and thriving!
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on 7 November 2024 12:37
PC/EU @ DECMVS
  • buzzclops
    buzzclops
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    Good points overall, but

    This has been said and asked for countless times on the pts. They seem to not want a real competitive PvP experience for this game. This is what we have to believe because zos has never answered any of these posts. I think we have to accept at this point that it will never be a competitive game. It’s not in the plans and will never be.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Decimus wrote: »

    A lot of the issues with no one dying in 4v4 because of the amount of defense and heals can be solved with something a lot of other MMOs use to combat this problem: a heal dampening effect that gets stronger the longer a match is going on.

    I agree with your feedback except this point. This is a byproduct of ZOS's pandering to feedback regarding anything offensively, while giving us basically everything we want to prevent dying (speed, burst heals, shields, sets that allow infinite resources, etc.).

    Reverting many of the unnecessary nerfs to our offensive abilities will make it such that the entire match would be enjoyable to play, rather than waiting for an artificial system to enable us to do what needs to happen in PvP: kill other players.
  • Major_Mangle
    Major_Mangle
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    Decimus wrote: »

    A lot of the issues with no one dying in 4v4 because of the amount of defense and heals can be solved with something a lot of other MMOs use to combat this problem: a heal dampening effect that gets stronger the longer a match is going on.

    I agree with your feedback except this point. This is a byproduct of ZOS's pandering to feedback regarding anything offensively, while giving us basically everything we want to prevent dying (speed, burst heals, shields, sets that allow infinite resources, etc.).

    Reverting many of the unnecessary nerfs to our offensive abilities will make it such that the entire match would be enjoyable to play, rather than waiting for an artificial system to enable us to do what needs to happen in PvP: kill other players.

    ZOS also nuking one of the best sets to counter all of this (Azureblight) doesn´t help either. Right now there is very little counterplay to "blobbing" in the new BG formats. And it´s only going to get worse as people learn that you don´t really need to build for that much damage in nocp to kill players.
    Ps4 EU 2016-2020
    PC/EU: 2020 -
  • Decimus
    Decimus
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    Going to add this to the original post, but after more time spent in the new battlegrounds I'll add a 4th issue: 8v8 Deathmatch devolving into "ball group gameplay" when there are too many heals and crossheals.

    I feel like the other game modes encourage people to spread out to different flags, chaosballs etc, or to defend the relic/attack opponent relic - in deathmatch however most of the matches have devolved into this 8-man stacking and healing which is simply not fun to play against and usually winds up with the stronger team just sitting below the spawn of the weaker team.

    There is a solution to this problem however: adding damage sigils to the Deathmatch game mode as well.

    Having 3 damage sigils spawn in their usual spots at the middle of the map during 8v8 deathmatch could allow for counterplay by providing enough damage to get through the healing.


    Other game modes are working just fine in 8v8 and are fun and enjoyable most of the time, but ironically deathmatch now seems to be the most problematic one.
    PC/EU @ DECMVS
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