Bretons are the worst Knights - very Short Poll to answer

Al_Ex_Andre · October 2023

So Bretons by their racials in game, are the worst stam knights. Or are they, lore-wise? Well Bretons are well known for their knighthood attitude.

Yet their racials indeed, is all about magika. Ya, they are magical. But shouldn't they get then, the Dark Elf treatment? Be hybrid.

I only thought about 2 options to solve the problem because I am a simple man. No need to open a forum poll this is straigthforward:

1) racials are set in stone, this is over. Bretons are the worst knights.
or
2) don't change the racial of the bretons.
Add instead a sub racial to bretons (you need to do all achievements from High Isle to get it): this 2nd choice of a racial has like a good chunk of stamina bonus added, they lose full magika reduce cost and magika recovery, they keep their magika and magika resistance because it is in their geneseed; for addying a damage bonus, not sure

What is your choice? 1) Or 2) Or Other) ?

If 2), ZOS should add love to other races too, Bretons don't need all the favor......

chessalavakia_ESO · October 2023

I think the Bretons have a strong enough connection to magic that it makes sense that they would end up somewhat weaker than others when going without magic simply because it wasn't something they had to do that much.

I'd argue that a big part of the reason that Breons would make good Knights is because of their magic. If you can magically fortify your abilities and heal your wounds you will get better results. If you aren't using magic though that kinda goes away.

I suppose ZOS could add separate racials for people that are born of a certain race but, are raised in another area and thus only reflect the physical aspects of their race but draw from the culture of another area. But, that would be a ton of work and perhaps somewhat debatable which would count as which for very limited gain.

Al_Ex_Andre · October 2023

Ya, but Bretons are versed in magic, and lean toward Knighthood too.

Both.

When I create my character, I am only versed in magic, which is wrong.

Ya, wrong.

I don't want to change the racials because this would cause a major havoc.

The current racials are for Breton sorcerers yet.

Good that.

I'd like racials for knights too. Or better, like @Dark Elves (hybrid).

Currently Breton racials make Bretons the worst knights.

Wrong with the Lore.

If you can magically fortify your abilities

Nah, knights are about Stamina. There is none in the racials currently.

Al_Ex_Andre · October 2023

Wow! This section of the forums is desert! This is sad.

But the topic is in the Lore section, so right where it should be.

What to add?

What ressource do you use when using knight weapons? Knights weapons are the sword, the shield. You don't use Magicka for using a sword, you use.. Stamina. Someone should look at the skills in game, you use Stamina for a sword, shield, two handed....

So fortify what? The use of what, er...a staff? The staff is what is used for Bretons characters currently.

The current Breton racials even give bonuses for when you wear your LIGHT armor. What racials are these? It's for the super breton sorcerer or breton healer by accident. This is incomplete.

Current racials make Breton the worst knights. The Lore says this is wrong.

Try it. Try to create a Breton Knight at the character creation. Equip a sword, say a 2Handed, and try to get a viable Breton stamplar or stamDK with a Dragon Knight template or Templar template, which are the 2 knight classes in the game for us players. You are the worst knight ever created.

If this forum is desert, the only redeemed supposition is that it was reported to the staff. Arguably the title is eyes catching enough

, would it suffice?

kaushad · October 2023

First, I choose option 1.

Bretons are written as knights because ESO has ignored their original identity in TES, albeit not to the point of giving less representative racial passives. Perhaps this was intended to reflect Daggerfall, as its Redguards didn’t have almost the same distribution of knights, mages and witches. Sure there are knights in Breton society, but they excel at magic.

Rather than mechanically turning Bretons into Imperials, there should be more lore about Breton mages and more Bretons among sorcerers of note.

Note that Altmer were also known for their “chivalric high culture” and “martial traditions” in TESIII.

Al_Ex_Andre · October 2023

kaushad wrote: »

First, I choose option 1.

Bretons are written as knights because ESO has ignored their original identity in TES, albeit not to the point of giving less representative racial passives. Perhaps this was intended to reflect Daggerfall, as its Redguards didn’t have almost the same distribution of knights, mages and witches. Sure there are knights in Breton society, but they excel at magic.

Rather than mechanically turning Bretons into Imperials, there should be more lore about Breton mages and more Bretons among sorcerers of note.

Note that Altmer were also known for their “chivalric high culture” and “martial traditions” in TESIII.

I fully understand what you saying dude. What I see is High Isle and chivalry everywhere, House this, House that

But what if it has not always been like that? I fully support your vote!

As for Altmer, didn't know about their chivalric nature. It makes sense! That's precisely one race that would really(1) need help as well as Bretons *in my book*. Mag dps suck these days (I am looking at you magplars), and Altmers cannot completly compensate with as good healers as Bretons healers. Again, *my opinion*.

(1): everything is "really" these days, but it's a matter of perspective

Surragard · October 2023

Bretons in ESO are a lot different than how I pictured them in ESO Lore. I always thought of them more as Druids but ESO basically made them a medieval England sort of race. At one point early in development there was an interview where they discussed that the Daggerfall Covenant, and especially Emeric and the Bretons, was designed to give the player an Imperial style faction to support (this is pre-One Tamriel where you had could not immediately visit the other faction areas after character creation). There is some lore support though in that the Bretons basically were a bunch of mini kingdoms before the Warp in the West.

tsaescishoeshiner · October 2023

I don't think racial bonuses are meant to be taken so literally. I think they're there to hint at the nature and/or history of each race while providing some roleplay variety. Obviously not every khajiit is sneaky, for example, and some orcs must have a natural aptitude for magic.

Is there a reason why Bretons can't have innate magical prowess and a culture of chivalry and knighthood? You don't need physical gifts to develop a system of knightly orders.

Plus, even if you do interpret breton's racial stats as meaning they have an affinity for magic, that doesn't mean they have to use it, just that they can.

If they have a culture of knighthood, that doesn't mean that each individual breton would have more martial prowess than some other race—just that they maintain power through nobility and honor. In fact, in the lore, they seem to have gotten that culture from the Direnni—the same place they're said to get their natural affinity for magic. : P

Anyway, knights in Elder Scrolls do tend to use magic to augment their martial abilities, and the ones that do seem to be the most powerful. I haven't seen any lore that knights are exclusively martial, though some must be.

Of course, I'd be down for some hybrid racial bonuses across the board.

Prophet_of_Malacath · November 2023

Bretons are the worst knights because....
....you'd have to be noble to be a knight.

Plus Dunmer doing it better - they can actually tell each other apart as each Great House has its own armor, colors, customs, furnishings - and then you have the Bouyant Armigers who serve the Questing Knight trope on behalf of the faith (whereas High Rock mostly has lifeless statues in faux Cathedrals that don't do much else). It's not about stats, its about culture & writing, and Dunmer are simply more fleshed out in that area - Bretons are just easy intro race for folks new to lore & looking for a human.

Also note Bretons are name after Bretons - French people closest to Britain, it's a little part of the map. They're not Mediterranean or anything else, they have a specific niche. The Druid stuff was shunned (originally, to avoid D&D comparisons; later, because Reachfolk do it better; High Isle was an attempt to bandaid it).

Also, stats don't dictate class. Every race has mages, medics, thieves, warriors, etc. Other races don't have knights, not because of stats, but because it's not a culturally relevant job role. Nords might have something similar (medieval knights sort of evolved from horsemen, who in turn evolved from Jarls & Thanes & stuff) but it's not about stats, it's about culture.

dazee · October 29

I think the intent is Bretons are the best spellcasting knights like spellblades but that kind of build still doesn't work as well as it should in ESO, although last I recall it is a lot more viable now.