Shouldn't your weapon matter for 1-h & Shield?

CaptainVenom · September 29

Right now, it doesn't matter if you equip a sword, an axe, a mace or a dagger. For Dual Wield, we got Twin Blade and Blunt and for 2-H, we got Heavy Weapons.

It feels a little weird. I know 1-h & Shield is meant to be for tanks and damage should matter at first glance. But there are damage builds out there (even more so now since we got Scribing and there are new skills for area damage and 1-h & Shield ranged attacks). So here's a concept:

Deadly Bash:

Rank 1 - Improves your standard Bash attacks, causing them to deal 250 more damage and cost 25% less Stamina. Grants a bonus based on the type of weapon equipped: Axes increases your Critical Damage done by 3%. Maces increases your Offensive Penetration by 743. Swords increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 64. Daggers increases your Critical Chance rating by 328.
Rank 2 - Improves your standard Bash attacks, causing them to deal 500 more damage and cost 50% less Stamina. Grants a bonus based on the type of weapon equipped: Axes increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Maces increases your Offensive Penetration by 1487. Swords increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 129. Daggers increases your Critical Chance rating by 657.

Long story short, it's the Twin Blade and Blunt effect added to a passive 1-H & Shield skill, which gives half the bonus (since there's just one weapon and the shield). This would add some spice to damage builds and make 1-h a little viable and fun to play with in a damage build, with also being in line with other weapon skill lines in terms of weapon type.

Thoughts?

SkaraMinoc · September 29

Yes and..

Increase Deadly Bash Rank 1 from 250 -> 500 bash damage.
Increase Deadly Bash Rank 2 from 500 -> 1000 bash damage.

Vaqual · September 29

Ok, then propose proportional buffs to 2H/DW and probably every other weapon and then we can think about it.
Need to buff stuff first so we have something to nerf, right?

Edit: I don't think it is wrong to make 1h+shield weapon choices meaningful, but a flat power injection is probably not the right way to do it.

mdjessup4906 · September 29

As long as my tanks can still use my one set of masters dagger+shield, because screw farming dsa any more than absolutely necessary.

Stafford197 · September 29

I think a good solution to this would be to update these two passives in the 1H/Shield skill line:

• Sword and Board (Current)
Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5% and the amount of damage you can block by 20%.
• Deflect Bolts (Current)
Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.

Here’s the idea:

• Sword and Board (New)
Grants an additional bonus based on the type of weapon equipped:
Axes increase your Critical Damage done by 6%.
Maces increase your Offensive Penetration by 1487.
Swords increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 129.
Daggers increase your Critical Chance rating by 657.
Shields increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5%
• Deflective Bulwark (New)
Increases the amount of damage you can block by 20%. This bonus increased by an additional 14% for projectiles and ranged attacks.

These updated passives reduce repetition since block mitigation was split between passives, and standardizes the “bonus per weapon type” passive found across other skills lines. The point here is to not nerf the current 1H/S though.

With that said…. If we’re ok with an small damage nerf, it would be best to only update Sword and Board passive to the following:

• Sword and Board (New)
Grants an additional bonus based on the type of weapon equipped:
Axes increase your Critical Damage done by 6%.
Maces increase your Offensive Penetration by 1487.
Swords increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 129.
Daggers increase your Critical Chance rating by 657.
Shields increase the amount of damage you can block by 20%.

Aces-High-82 · September 30

Squeeze even more damage into a single GCD....No thanks

Thumbless_Bot · October 1

100% agree that it should count but why not just count the same as each half of dual wield?

Oblivion_Protocol · October 1

Honestly, I don’t care if the weapon matters or not. But, if the weapon doesn’t matter, stop giving me the same 1h + shield set multiple times with different weapons as arena loot. If I didn’t want it with a Sword, what makes you think I want it with a Mace? Just give us one set and make it do for all. Or give us all the shield-bound weapons at once.

AllenaNightWood · October 1

id like to see sword and shield viable for dps builds

Onomog · October 1

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

id like to see sword and shield viable for dps builds

I cobbled together an oakensoul bash build with my DK that does pretty well. Certainly not topping any charts, but fun in the archive and soloing dungeons/world bosses.

Would be thrilled to see 1h & shield get some love, but there's no way I'm holding my breath.

(edit for spelling)

Cheveyo · October 3

Onomog wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

id like to see sword and shield viable for dps builds

I cobbled together an oakensoul bash build with my DK that does pretty well. Certainly not topping any charts, but fun in the archive and soloing dungeons/world bosses.

Would be thrilled to see 1h & shield get some love, but there's no way I'm holding my breath.

(edit for spelling)

I tried building something similar on my Templar, didn't work as well as I wanted. Been wanting to retry it on a different class. Sounds like DK might be it.

Dagoth_Rac · October 3

Isn't one of the biggest problems in PvP unkillable tanky sword-and-board builds that still do decent damage? I am not sure giving all those builds buffs to their offensive stats is going to be a popular move. Perhaps if there was some kind of disclaimer of, "while Battle Spirit is not active," or, "against monsters." But ZOS always seem really hesitant to do that, especially with core skills (they are a little more likely to do it with set bonuses). Or perhaps a new mythic that provides even more powerful bonuses for 1H+S but also adds a, "You take X% more damage from enemy players." That would let you opt into this more DPS-ish sword-and-board, but at a cost, rather than it being a core part of weapon passives.

Onomog · October 3

Cheveyo wrote: »

I tried building something similar on my Templar, didn't work as well as I wanted. Been wanting to retry it on a different class. Sounds like DK might be it.

Yeah, I didn't have much luck when I tried to replicate it with my Templar. I've found tanking with that class in any fashion to be far more work and frustration than it's worth, which is why it's mothballed at this point and I stick to my DK.

@Dagoth_Rac I don't PVP, but I could see where the increase in dmg output + tankiness would be frustrating. I think the point of the OP was not to buff 1h & shield to make it competitive with a pure dps build, but to offer some variety, consequence, & interesting choices in weapon choice when you are using 1h & shield.

Iriidius · October 3

Onomog wrote: »

Cheveyo wrote: »

I tried building something similar on my Templar, didn't work as well as I wanted. Been wanting to retry it on a different class. Sounds like DK might be it.

Yeah, I didn't have much luck when I tried to replicate it with my Templar. I've found tanking with that class in any fashion to be far more work and frustration than it's worth, which is why it's mothballed at this point and I stick to my DK.

@Dagoth_Rac I don't PVP, but I could see where the increase in dmg output + tankiness would be frustrating. I think the point of the OP was not to buff 1h & shield to make it competitive with a pure dps build, but to offer some variety, consequence, & interesting choices in weapon choice when you are using 1h & shield.

I also think this was OPs point but I would prefer not having variety, consequence, & interesting choices in weapon choice and just using whatever 1h weapon I have on 1h & shield.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · October 3

I would rather one handed with NO shield become viable DPS before one-handed and shield.

Shields are mostly battlefield weapons or are for self defense.

Want to go offense with a one-handed sword? Buckler at best, because mobility is king.

The_Isatope8 · October 19

I like the idea behind this change, but I think its implementation doesn't match what the sword and shield skill line is trying to accomplish. If weapon traits were to be added to this skill line then they should focus on debuffing the enemy rather than buffing the player using the sword and shield since that fits more in line with tanking.

Tanky sword and shield builds with decent damage are a problem in PvP, so these new passives will be using the same wording convention as the Empower buff where 'Monster' refers to any enemy that isn't another player.

Here's what I think would be the best way to implement traits for different weapons via passives:

Fortress
Reduces the Stamina cost of your One Hand and Shield abilities by 8/ 15%, reduces the cost of blocking by 18/ 36% and increases the amount of damage you can block by 10/ 20%.
Developer Comment:
Since the Sword and Board passive is receiving the weapon traits, the extra block mitigation was moved to this passive.
Sword and Board
Increase your weapon and spell damage by 5% and grants an effect when attacking monsters based on the type of weapon equipped.
- Axes increase the monsters critical damage taken by 2/ 3% for 6 seconds.
- Maces reduce the monsters armor by 594/ 1189 for 6 seconds.
- Swords increase the weapon and spell damage of damaging abilities against the monster by 60/120 for 6 seconds.
- Daggers increase the critical strike chance against the monster by 328/ 576 for 6 seconds.
Developer Comment:
The traits of each weapon still resemble the traits of their counterparts in the Dual Wield skill line, but better suited to debuffing the enemy, rather than empowering the player. I think this direction fits in much better with the skill line and tanking as a whole and gives the weapon choice unique effects instead of just importing the effects from the dual wield skill line.

Some of the values of the effects are also a little less than those of their counterparts in the Dual Wield skill line, but this is simply for the sake of balance since any player can take advantage of the debuffs. For the sake of convenience, any damage dealt to an enemy with the weapon equipped will apply the debuffs and can be applied once every 5 seconds per enemy.

All of these proposed changes are merely speculative and I can't gauge their efficacy and balance without actually testing it so there might be some balance issues with these new passives.