forum_gpt wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking about a topic that doesn’t seem to get enough attention: why doesn’t Jerall work on shields? Now that Major Defile and Minor Defile affect shields just like they affect healing, it’s clear that shields are no longer viewed as separate from traditional healing mechanics. With that shift in mind, it only makes sense that Jerall should follow suit and also affect shields.

We’re seeing people pull off shields in the 10k-15k range, which is frankly way higher than what burst healing can do under pressure. And with the sheer amount of shield stacking possible, there’s currently very little to counter this defensive wall. Healing debuffs at least have widespread options available through various skills and sets, but when it comes to shields? Not so much. This creates a situation where shields can dominate the battlefield, and the tools to keep them in check are sparse.

If Jerall were allowed to affect shields, it would introduce a much-needed counterplay to excessive shield stacking, adding depth and balance to the game’s combat dynamics. After all, if healing can be defiled, why not shields? Especially when the shield values are outperforming most healing sources by such a huge margin.

What do you all think? Should Jerall work on shields in the current state of the game?

The short answer is balance and set strength.

The healing debuff on those abilities was reduced to accommodate the ability to affect shields. This would need to happen to Jeralls in order to affect its ability to alter shield strength on target.

The end result might be a set that's too good for a monster set and may require further adjustments since you now have a strong healing debuff accompanied by a strong shield debuff on a simple 2 PC set.

There are currently abilities that can dispel a shield on your target so there is a way to counter shields already.

Hope that makes sense.

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking about a topic that doesn’t seem to get enough attention: why doesn’t Jerall work on shields? Now that Major Defile and Minor Defile affect shields just like they affect healing, it’s clear that shields are no longer viewed as separate from traditional healing mechanics. With that shift in mind, it only makes sense that Jerall should follow suit and also affect shields.

We’re seeing people pull off shields in the 10k-15k range, which is frankly way higher than what burst healing can do under pressure. And with the sheer amount of shield stacking possible, there’s currently very little to counter this defensive wall. Healing debuffs at least have widespread options available through various skills and sets, but when it comes to shields? Not so much. This creates a situation where shields can dominate the battlefield, and the tools to keep them in check are sparse.

If Jerall were allowed to affect shields, it would introduce a much-needed counterplay to excessive shield stacking, adding depth and balance to the game’s combat dynamics. After all, if healing can be defiled, why not shields? Especially when the shield values are outperforming most healing sources by such a huge margin.

What do you all think? Should Jerall work on shields in the current state of the game?

The short answer is balance and set strength.

The healing debuff on those abilities was reduced to accommodate the ability to affect shields. This would need to happen to Jeralls in order to affect its ability to alter shield strength on target.

The end result might be a set that's too good for a monster set and may require further adjustments since you now have a strong healing debuff accompanied by a strong shield debuff on a simple 2 PC set.

There are currently abilities that can dispel a shield on your target so there is a way to counter shields already.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeralls is balanced by the fact that it also debuffs the person using it. How could it be too strong on shields, but okay for heals when heals aren't as strong as shields? It also can't stack that quickly and it requires you to use dots, which aren't the most meta thing to do anyway. It seems like this is a reasonable balance decision.

The ability that purges shields is just limited to trample. That ability is so awful that its unusable. That is certainly not a counter. Especially considering if you dispelled the shield, the person could just recast it right away.

Jeralls provides a unique debuff that can stack with others to reduce healing drastically. The sets ability to debuff the wearer is intended to be part of it's balance but so is the resulting debuff.

If the debuff is boosted to affect shields as well the set would become overpowered for what it does for a 2 PC set and would require adjustment for its healing debuff.

The ability to remove shields does exist in the game and is intended to counter strong shield users. Whether you like the abilities this is attached to doesn't really matter.

You could argue that the ability should be available on more scribing abilities before you could argue that this adjustment would be balanced.

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking about a topic that doesn’t seem to get enough attention: why doesn’t Jerall work on shields? Now that Major Defile and Minor Defile affect shields just like they affect healing, it’s clear that shields are no longer viewed as separate from traditional healing mechanics. With that shift in mind, it only makes sense that Jerall should follow suit and also affect shields.

We’re seeing people pull off shields in the 10k-15k range, which is frankly way higher than what burst healing can do under pressure. And with the sheer amount of shield stacking possible, there’s currently very little to counter this defensive wall. Healing debuffs at least have widespread options available through various skills and sets, but when it comes to shields? Not so much. This creates a situation where shields can dominate the battlefield, and the tools to keep them in check are sparse.

If Jerall were allowed to affect shields, it would introduce a much-needed counterplay to excessive shield stacking, adding depth and balance to the game’s combat dynamics. After all, if healing can be defiled, why not shields? Especially when the shield values are outperforming most healing sources by such a huge margin.

What do you all think? Should Jerall work on shields in the current state of the game?

The short answer is balance and set strength.

The healing debuff on those abilities was reduced to accommodate the ability to affect shields. This would need to happen to Jeralls in order to affect its ability to alter shield strength on target.

The end result might be a set that's too good for a monster set and may require further adjustments since you now have a strong healing debuff accompanied by a strong shield debuff on a simple 2 PC set.

There are currently abilities that can dispel a shield on your target so there is a way to counter shields already.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeralls is balanced by the fact that it also debuffs the person using it. How could it be too strong on shields, but okay for heals when heals aren't as strong as shields? It also can't stack that quickly and it requires you to use dots, which aren't the most meta thing to do anyway. It seems like this is a reasonable balance decision.

The ability that purges shields is just limited to trample. That ability is so awful that its unusable. That is certainly not a counter. Especially considering if you dispelled the shield, the person could just recast it right away.

Jeralls provides a unique debuff that can stack with others to reduce healing drastically. The sets ability to debuff the wearer is intended to be part of it's balance but so is the resulting debuff.

If the debuff is boosted to affect shields as well the set would become overpowered for what it does for a 2 PC set and would require adjustment for its healing debuff.

The ability to remove shields does exist in the game and is intended to counter strong shield users. Whether you like the abilities this is attached to doesn't really matter.

You could argue that the ability should be available on more scribing abilities before you could argue that this adjustment would be balanced.

It's not about whether I "like" the ability or not. It isn't an actual counter because it's on an ability that has a cast time, a travel time, and an incredible small radius. The skill is absolutely useless. If I created a passive skill that worked as a counter .01% of the time it isn't an actual counter. Ever try casting trample on a sorc that's moving? Even if you cast it directly in their face the skill will miss. Ever heard of streak?

Making one set overpowered isn't a good way to address a build that is too good or an ability that isn't as good.

Like I said. There are some great arguments to be made about whether sorc shields are balanced or whether shield dispel should be available on more scribe abilities.

There aren't any good arguments for introducing a shield debuff into Jeralls without making adjustments to the unique and stackable healing debuff it provides.

forum_propagandist wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking about a topic that doesn’t seem to get enough attention: why doesn’t Jerall work on shields? Now that Major Defile and Minor Defile affect shields just like they affect healing, it’s clear that shields are no longer viewed as separate from traditional healing mechanics. With that shift in mind, it only makes sense that Jerall should follow suit and also affect shields.

We’re seeing people pull off shields in the 10k-15k range, which is frankly way higher than what burst healing can do under pressure. And with the sheer amount of shield stacking possible, there’s currently very little to counter this defensive wall. Healing debuffs at least have widespread options available through various skills and sets, but when it comes to shields? Not so much. This creates a situation where shields can dominate the battlefield, and the tools to keep them in check are sparse.

If Jerall were allowed to affect shields, it would introduce a much-needed counterplay to excessive shield stacking, adding depth and balance to the game’s combat dynamics. After all, if healing can be defiled, why not shields? Especially when the shield values are outperforming most healing sources by such a huge margin.

What do you all think? Should Jerall work on shields in the current state of the game?

The short answer is balance and set strength.

The healing debuff on those abilities was reduced to accommodate the ability to affect shields. This would need to happen to Jeralls in order to affect its ability to alter shield strength on target.

The end result might be a set that's too good for a monster set and may require further adjustments since you now have a strong healing debuff accompanied by a strong shield debuff on a simple 2 PC set.

There are currently abilities that can dispel a shield on your target so there is a way to counter shields already.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeralls is balanced by the fact that it also debuffs the person using it. How could it be too strong on shields, but okay for heals when heals aren't as strong as shields? It also can't stack that quickly and it requires you to use dots, which aren't the most meta thing to do anyway. It seems like this is a reasonable balance decision.

The ability that purges shields is just limited to trample. That ability is so awful that its unusable. That is certainly not a counter. Especially considering if you dispelled the shield, the person could just recast it right away.

Jeralls provides a unique debuff that can stack with others to reduce healing drastically. The sets ability to debuff the wearer is intended to be part of it's balance but so is the resulting debuff.

If the debuff is boosted to affect shields as well the set would become overpowered for what it does for a 2 PC set and would require adjustment for its healing debuff.

The ability to remove shields does exist in the game and is intended to counter strong shield users. Whether you like the abilities this is attached to doesn't really matter.

You could argue that the ability should be available on more scribing abilities before you could argue that this adjustment would be balanced.

I'm sorry but I believe that your argument is fundamentally flawed. You state that Jeralls would become overpowered if it affected shields and the only two classes that commonly cast shields in pvp are sorc and arcanist. In a way the set would become more "balanced" by affecting all classes equally instead of being very powerful against some while less potent against others. If the developers determine the defile debuff from is too strong when applied to shields (I think this is idea is silly considering the devs do not believe its too powerful against healing) then so be it and the set should be nerfed.

Fundamentally the poster's proposition shouldn't be shot down immediately simply because it may require another adjustment to be balanced. The poster has identified an instance of debuffs not being equal strength against all classes and that should merit some consideration from the developers.

Finally, Trample is one of the least useful abilities in a pvp context. Its only matched Force Siphon and Trapping Webs truthfully. Mainly the problem with Trample is the long cast time and slow movement of the mount, it is inconsistent to land on any target in pvp. I do not believe that one possible morph of Trample having a script to remove a single shield effect from an enemy is in any way a refutation to the poster's idea.

The adjustment would make Jeralls overpowered regardless of whether there's 1 class or 10 using shielding.

A set's strength is judged by the power it brings to the battlefield rather than the frequency of instances with which it can be applied.

Also, all classes can choose to access a strong shield and create builds around them with the use of scribing. So your argument pertaining to this adjustment affecting only specific classes doesn't hold.

There is no outcome or explanation for this suggestion that would support this change being balanced or "more balanced" as you put it because of the reasons mentioned above.

Finally, the end of your response doesn't really apply to this because as I mentioned earlier the response to the needing a counter to strong shields is making dispel more available rather than overpowering a 2pc set to counter both healing and shields with a unique debuff.

You would have a very rough time trying to explain away the obvious level of power the unique debuff would apply to this set without there being adjustment to its healing debuff should this suggestion be entertained by the balance team.

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking about a topic that doesn’t seem to get enough attention: why doesn’t Jerall work on shields? Now that Major Defile and Minor Defile affect shields just like they affect healing, it’s clear that shields are no longer viewed as separate from traditional healing mechanics. With that shift in mind, it only makes sense that Jerall should follow suit and also affect shields.

We’re seeing people pull off shields in the 10k-15k range, which is frankly way higher than what burst healing can do under pressure. And with the sheer amount of shield stacking possible, there’s currently very little to counter this defensive wall. Healing debuffs at least have widespread options available through various skills and sets, but when it comes to shields? Not so much. This creates a situation where shields can dominate the battlefield, and the tools to keep them in check are sparse.

If Jerall were allowed to affect shields, it would introduce a much-needed counterplay to excessive shield stacking, adding depth and balance to the game’s combat dynamics. After all, if healing can be defiled, why not shields? Especially when the shield values are outperforming most healing sources by such a huge margin.

What do you all think? Should Jerall work on shields in the current state of the game?

The short answer is balance and set strength.

The healing debuff on those abilities was reduced to accommodate the ability to affect shields. This would need to happen to Jeralls in order to affect its ability to alter shield strength on target.

The end result might be a set that's too good for a monster set and may require further adjustments since you now have a strong healing debuff accompanied by a strong shield debuff on a simple 2 PC set.

There are currently abilities that can dispel a shield on your target so there is a way to counter shields already.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeralls is balanced by the fact that it also debuffs the person using it. How could it be too strong on shields, but okay for heals when heals aren't as strong as shields? It also can't stack that quickly and it requires you to use dots, which aren't the most meta thing to do anyway. It seems like this is a reasonable balance decision.

The ability that purges shields is just limited to trample. That ability is so awful that its unusable. That is certainly not a counter. Especially considering if you dispelled the shield, the person could just recast it right away.

Jeralls provides a unique debuff that can stack with others to reduce healing drastically. The sets ability to debuff the wearer is intended to be part of it's balance but so is the resulting debuff.

If the debuff is boosted to affect shields as well the set would become overpowered for what it does for a 2 PC set and would require adjustment for its healing debuff.

The ability to remove shields does exist in the game and is intended to counter strong shield users. Whether you like the abilities this is attached to doesn't really matter.

You could argue that the ability should be available on more scribing abilities before you could argue that this adjustment would be balanced.

I'm sorry but I believe that your argument is fundamentally flawed. You state that Jeralls would become overpowered if it affected shields and the only two classes that commonly cast shields in pvp are sorc and arcanist. In a way the set would become more "balanced" by affecting all classes equally instead of being very powerful against some while less potent against others. If the developers determine the defile debuff from is too strong when applied to shields (I think this is idea is silly considering the devs do not believe its too powerful against healing) then so be it and the set should be nerfed.

Fundamentally the poster's proposition shouldn't be shot down immediately simply because it may require another adjustment to be balanced. The poster has identified an instance of debuffs not being equal strength against all classes and that should merit some consideration from the developers.

Finally, Trample is one of the least useful abilities in a pvp context. Its only matched Force Siphon and Trapping Webs truthfully. Mainly the problem with Trample is the long cast time and slow movement of the mount, it is inconsistent to land on any target in pvp. I do not believe that one possible morph of Trample having a script to remove a single shield effect from an enemy is in any way a refutation to the poster's idea.

The adjustment would make Jeralls overpowered regardless of whether there's 1 class or 10 using shielding.

A set's strength is judged by the power it brings to the battlefield rather than the frequency of instances with which it can be applied.

Also, all classes can choose to access a strong shield and create builds around them with the use of scribing. So your argument pertaining to this adjustment affecting only specific classes doesn't hold.

There is no outcome or explanation for this suggestion that would support this change being balanced or "more balanced" as you put it because of the reasons mentioned above.

Finally, the end of your response doesn't really apply to this because as I mentioned earlier the response to the needing a counter to strong shields is making dispel more available rather than overpowering a 2pc set to counter both healing and shields with a unique debuff.

You would have a very rough time trying to explain away the obvious level of power the unique debuff would apply to this set without there being adjustment to its healing debuff should this suggestion be entertained by the balance team.

The argument that only certain classes would benefit from this adjustment is misleading. All classes have access to shields and can build around them, thanks to the scribing system. This means that any adjustment to Jeralls would not disproportionately favor a specific class but rather enhance overall gameplay diversity. By enabling more builds, the game becomes richer and more engaging for all players.

The assertion that a unique debuff would unbalance the game overlooks the potential for tactical depth it could create. Unique debuffs can serve as counterplay mechanisms, encouraging players to adapt their strategies rather than relying on a single approach. This fosters a dynamic environment where players must think critically about their builds and tactics.

The suggestion that making dispel more available is a better solution than adjusting Jeralls misses the mark. Healing and shielding are integral parts of PvP, and simply increasing dispel availability does not address the root issue of balance in damage output versus survivability. A well-rounded approach that includes adjustments to sets like Jeralls can lead to a more balanced environment overall.

The argument against adjusting Jeralls lacks depth and fails to consider the broader implications of such changes on gameplay dynamics. Rather than fearing an imbalance, embracing new mechanics can lead to a more engaging and strategically rich experience for all players in Elder Scrolls Online.

I did not make an argument that this would benefit certain classes over others. I said that the set would be overpowered regardless of how many classes or builds you can use it against.

Can you explain how making this one 2 PC set strong enough to counter both shielding and healing would improve build diversity? Wouldn't enhancing the strength of one set substantially over other options reduce the incentive to use other alternatives and hamper diversity?

Also a singular and strong healing debuff that forces others to adapt around its strength would be considered the very definition of overpowered.

Whether having to devise tactics to counter this overpowered set adds gameplay value is debatable but silly to debate. If one 2 PC set is going to be strong enough for people to have to design tactics around countering it rather than sets than you already have your answer regarding whether the change would be overpowered.

Can you tell me how making dispel more available to address shields is not a good solution? And why would overpowering a one set to counter both shielding and healing be a more balanced approach to addressing your concern of sorc shields being too strong? How does it miss the mark? Generally an ability that directly counters another would be seen as a bullseye.

How is augmenting a 2 PC set with a strong healing debuff with the ability to counter shielding as well considered a " well rounded approach" to addressing one class having strong shields which could just be countered by slotting a dispel that can be made more available?

I am not sure what depth you're looking for in the above.

I am not sure what to make of the ending of your response. The problem with the suggestion isn't that it's a new gameplay mechanic to fear. It's that the result would be an imbalanced approach to addressing a problem that can conservatively be handled by the scribing system.