The difference between AMD 5000 series X vs X3D

Ahk1lleez · October 2024

I am currently running a 5800x with a 3070 and 64gigs of 3600mhz ram. If there is anyone who has had experience with swapping from a 5000 series X cpu to a 5700x3d or 5800x3d I would like to know how it has been. Particularly in terms of performance in large scale pvp battles.

I don't have the budget to upgrade the motherboard, ram and cpu at the moment. Ideally, I would like to skip AM5 altogether and upgrade the GPU when Nvidia drops the 50 series.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

fred4 · October 2024

Well, I run a 5800X3D + 3070 + 32GB. I have no experience upgrading from a non-X3D part. That said, I have zero performance issues in ESO.

For reference: I have almost all graphical settings cranked. Framerate is typically ~100Hz with DLSS Quality at 4K and VRR. Been in few large Cyro battles lately, maybe 1 recently in a full campaign and everyone at the same keep on the map. Even the 3rd faction had at least one ball group running around. I did not notice any performance change, but I couldn't tell 100Hz from 60Hz unless I looked, tbh. It's VRR and will fluctuate is all I'm saying. Always looks smooth to me.

I main a cloaking light armor NB, by the way. My playstyle is very sensitive to lag. I've historically played in IC, partly for this reason, but these days Cyro and IC feel much the same from a lag standpoint. Since ZOS' server upgrade and my PC upgrade from a really old one.

I run with disabled hyper-threading, because the CPU runs about 20W and 10C cooler that way, when stress-testing. I also limited the GPU to 70C and power limit to 70% for low noise. This incurs a 20% framerate loss in Furmark, but in ESO you hardly notice the difference. ESO doesn't stress the GPU as hard in the first place; the framerate stays almost the same.

In other words this machine is overkill other than the fact that 4K is nice to avoid stair-stepping effects and you can zoom in on screenshots. I would say yours is too. 16GB would be enough, btw. I played ESO on an 8GB machine in the past (now that was tight). I very much doubt you need the X3D (any flavor) for this game, at least not with the pop cap and the servers being as limited as they are.

I hang on to PCs for a really long time, e.g. 10 years+ if I can, with maybe just a GPU upgrade down the line. In that case getting the top CPU for your socket makes sense, perhaps. Otherwise I wouldn't do it. Also, in terms of single-player games, the GPU should be the limiting factor in our systems.

fred4 · October 2024

Something to add: The X3D runs hot, which you probably know. I have a Noctua NH-U14S on it, which I'm honestly not that impressed by. I guess it's an older design. Sure it's fine, but probably bad value. In retrospect maybe get a Thermalright for much less. It's not like you'll spin a 14/15cm fan as fast as a 12cm one, cause it gets rather loud when you do. The pitch of this Noctua fan is lower, but smaller fans spin faster quieter, so the size of fans seems a bit of a wash to me when it comes to noise. The 8cm fans on the GPU can go up to 2K RPM, before they start to make annoying noise, but you don't want to run the big CPU fan beyond 1.1K for the same subjective noise levels.

Single cores will boost to 4.55GHz from time to time. All core it's 4.15-4.2GHz with a power virus. If I turned hyper-threading on during Prime95, you'd bump into the 90C limit in a 20C room easily, even with an undervolt. The cooler can only handle maybe 110W with this CPU (at 1.1K RPM), but the processor wants to go to ~130W on some power virus loads, though gaming is more like 80W. My Cinebench scores aren't quite where the reviews say they should be. It's an Asus B550 Gaming F motherboard, btw, e.g. a decent mid-range board.

In order to get the temps under control / for longevity, I undervolted by 0.05V in addition to turning hyper-threading off. Temps are ~85C with Prime95 now. Stability is fine regardless of undervolt. You can even undervolt by 0.1V, but the thing starts clock-stretching or something. You think the frequencies look fine, but the Cinebench score drops more.

SkaraMinoc · October 2024

You'll get more FPS and more consistent frame time with an X3D chip, especially in places like Cyrodiil which are CPU bound.

I upgraded from a 5900x to a 7950X3D and the FPS increase was substantial. Now I'm waiting for the 9950X3D to launch.

You might want to wait for the 9800X3D which is rumored to launch soon.

Ahk1lleez · October 2024

fred4 wrote: »

Something to add: The X3D runs hot, which you probably know. I have a Noctua NH-U14S on it, which I'm honestly not that impressed by. I guess it's an older design. Sure it's fine, but probably bad value. In retrospect maybe get a Thermalright for much less. It's not like you'll spin a 14/15cm fan as fast as a 12cm one, cause it gets rather loud when you do. The pitch of this Noctua fan is lower, but smaller fans spin faster quieter, so the size of fans seems a bit of a wash to me when it comes to noise. The 8cm fans on the GPU can go up to 2K RPM, before they start to make annoying noise, but you don't want to run the big CPU fan beyond 1.1K for the same subjective noise levels.

Single cores will boost to 4.55GHz from time to time. All core it's 4.15-4.2GHz with a power virus. If I turned hyper-threading on during Prime95, you'd bump into the 90C limit in a 20C room easily, even with an undervolt. The cooler can only handle maybe 110W with this CPU (at 1.1K RPM), but the processor wants to go to ~130W on some power virus loads, though gaming is more like 80W. My Cinebench scores aren't quite where the reviews say they should be. It's an Asus B550 Gaming F motherboard, btw, e.g. a decent mid-range board.

In order to get the temps under control / for longevity, I undervolted by 0.05V in addition to turning hyper-threading off. Temps are ~85C with Prime95 now. Stability is fine regardless of undervolt. You can even undervolt by 0.1V, but the thing starts clock-stretching or something. You think the frequencies look fine, but the Cinebench score drops more.

I appreciate the insight. The 5800x runs even hotter than the x3d chips, which is part of the reason I was even considering moving to one. On a 1.25265 locked undervolt at 4100mhz I'm still getting temps consistently right around 70 with peaks of around 78c. It was even worse when I was using curve optimizer at -25 all core. This 240mm cooler (H100l) is only a little over a year old so it's not likely the thermal paste... and all fans (radiator and case fans) are controlled by icue with a custom curve in a high airflow case with the fans set to hit 100% at 70c. Even with hyperthreading turned off it's just getting too hot.

In larger scale battles like the scroll temple fight I was just in... I'm seeing my frames drop into the mid 20's at 2560x1440. I have the GPU undervolted as well to keep it from thermal throttling, max temp gets to around 65-68c...so I don't think that's what's going on. I'm typically getting around 100-115 fps standing at the gate. I noticed the x3d chips have better 1% lows which is why I thought it might be worth it. I can live with dips into the 40's or 50's, but into the 20's is just too much.

I'm the same way when it comes to running pc's. I'm trying to stretch this one out as long as possible. I'm hoping to get another 6-7 years out of this rig. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and grab one.

Ahk1lleez · October 2024

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

You'll get more FPS and more consistent frame time with an X3D chip, especially in places like Cyrodiil which are CPU bound.

I upgraded from a 5900x to a 7950X3D and the FPS increase was substantial. Now I'm waiting for the 9950X3D to launch.

You might want to wait for the 9800X3D which is rumored to launch soon.

As much as I would like to upgrade my motherboard and ram as well, that's just a little out of my budget at the moment. It's nice to hear that you got a significant improvement though. I'm torn between getting one now or holding off til the 9000 series drops in hopes that the price of the 5000 chips might come down a bit.