Do the devs play the game/read the feedback

Syiccal · September 23

I really don't understand, someone please help me..
Feedback is given in various forms for various classes etc and every pts there is bug fixes, not proper balance changes that everyone is asking for or discussing but bug fixes for small visual things that no one really noticed to start with
Was really hoping to see more than bug fixes this week, I just don't understand the thinking at thier end

Kaysha · September 23

I don´t think they have the resources anymore to react that fast. If we are lucky, the feedback will be considered for the next patch cycle

Theist_VII · September 23

Kaysha wrote: »

I don´t think they have the resources anymore to react that fast. If we are lucky, the feedback will be considered for the next patch cycle

Look at Azureblight and Pyrebrand.

Both had an active thread complaining about them leading up the PTS cycle, and both were absolutely destroyed. I wonder what other sets are hitting the chopping block next week.

ZOS_Kevin · September 23

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

Jerdeh · September 23

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

Sometimes taking baby steps is a better choice than going in like a wrecking ball and destroying whole sets, people spend a lot of time farming for. These changes made to these 2 sets as they are now, are completely unnecessary. Maybe devs should actually spend more time thinking about these changes through, before making them and also value the time, people spend on their game.

acastanza_ESO · September 23

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

The nerf to Azureblight really shows that the devs in fact don't PVP in Cyrodiil in any meaningful way. If they did they would have seen that the set is currently the only reasonable counter to ballgroups and wouldn't have deleted the scaling against players. There is a legitimate argument to be made that it was too strong against small groups, but deleting the only counter for the most abusive PVP groups in the game is outright disgusting and unacceptable.
Damage scaling against players for Azureblight must be reenabled, or the farcical amount of shield and heal stacking that ballgroups have been enabled to have with scribing is the certian death of Cyrodiil once and for all.

Syiccal · September 23

Well yea it's like the 56% nerf to arcanist impervious rune ward, when all they have is defense, DMG in PVP is terrible, could have started small and gone like 10-15% but no .56%.
Sorc wards should been the one taking 50% nerf if anything, they are ridiculous and they have the best range offense and mobility in the game by far but hey keep your 15k shield with burst heal on top.

deadpool3431 · September 23

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

None of you pvp in any meaningful way. If you did you wouldn't nerf cloak to be completely useless or remove the only only counterplay to the ballgroup mess you created. The reason ballgroups exist is directly because you don't use battlespirit to separate pvp from pve. Heal stacking shouldn't exist. I've had over 40 echoing Vigor on me at one time just standing near a ballgroup. Yall refuse to actually listen to the experienced pvpers in the community. There are only a handful of core playstyles in this game. You could talk to players from those core playstyles before making such drastic sweeping nerfs to them.

ioResult · September 23

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

No one believes you.

If the devs play in Cyrodiil then they're all in ball groups, the only playstyle in Cyrodiil that has NEVER had a single nerf in the entire history of the game.

We have been giving feedback on this abusive PvP playstyle for a decade and they have done NOTHING to curb it.

The devs could very easily limit the stacks of heals in a group if Battle Spirit is active. It's a ridiculously simple fix to code and test. But have they done it? NOPE

The devs could re-implement the "AoE heals only affect group members if Battle Spirit is active" rule, but do they? NOPE

Every single time we find a way to do even a little bit of counterplay to the abusive playstyle of ball groups, THE DEVS NERF IT.

Azureblight is just the latest example of when the Devs' ball group buddies complain in their ball group's Discord about something that actually kills them, the Devs nerf the set into the ground so they and their ball group buddies can continue to just abuse everyone else in Cyrodiil and run the map at will.

It's just like every single time that people who play Nightblades come up with a new way to gank or bomb the people in ball groups or sweaty Xv1 Ulti-dump groups, THEY NERF INTO THE GROUND THE SETS AND/OR THE ABILITIES USED FOR THOSE PLAYSTYLES.

The Devs even tried to sneak in 100 meter detect pots with no announcement at all in any patch note, thinking we wouldn't notice. And then when we complained, there was absolutely no acknowledgement that they even tried to do it. They just silently dropped the range back before the change went live.

The Devs are the ones who invented sets like Sentry that have no other purpose than to thwart Nightblade PvP playstyles that the Devs don't play and definitely can't master even though they write the code for the game.

Where's the new set to specifically thwart Streak or Leap or Northern Storm? I don't see any of those in the game.

The Devs added silent nerfs like a player's own DoTs pull them instantly out of stealth even if they're crouching and hiding.

Now the Devs are nerfing cloak into the ground, nerfing Tarnished to make it sure it's useless against anyone using the Miat's PvP Alerts addon (e.g. their sweaty try hard and ball group buddies), and nerfing the only set still effective against ball groups - ALL IN THE SAME PATCH.

At who's behest?

The only conclusion we can draw is that the Devs all run in ball groups and do nothing else in Cyrodiil when they actually set foot in the zone.

So no @ZOS_Kevin we don't believe you. At all.

LonePirate · September 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game.

Kevin, I believe some but not all of what you are saying is true here. The devs absolutely do play dungeons and trials. I have seen Finn, Rich and others participate in the old Thursday night runs with Stream Team members on Twitch. Finn also knows the mechanics and details of the various encounters as he should, with knowledge he has learned personally from both the player and dev aspect.

I also think the dev team spent time time playing the new 4x4 and 8x8 battlegrounds in advance of the code deployment to the PTS.

However, I think the dev team avoids Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds and Imperial City on the live servers as if those areas of the game were infected with the Knahaten Flu. Too many issues have been ignored for far too long in the PVP aspects of the game that it certainly suggests the dev team is oblivious to player feedback or worse, they simply don't care. This battlegrounds refresh is not likely to fix many or even any of them.

The battlegrounds MMR on the live server is atrocious. I entered two BG queues as a solo player tonight where all three of my teammates combined for less than 1000 total CP and their numerical PVP ranks combined were under 20. Both of those are indicators of BG and PVP experience even if BGs are technically no CP. In both BGs, we were rolled by the same four man team who reached 500 points before either of the other two teams (so four teams in total) reached 200 points. How is this a healthy matchmaking system?

The Cyrodiil problems have been mentioned time and time again with absolutely no response from ZOS, not even an apologetic "We hear you" statement. There are other threads in the PTS and PVP sections of the forums with plenty of player feedback and frustration and a whole lot of crickets from ZOS.

So, yes, I believe ZOS does play the PVE portions of the game and does listen to that feedback. Not so much for the PVP side of the house.

Stridig · September 24

I'm still looking for the PvP feedback they saw that said PvPers want more..... battlegrounds. It makes me wonder if I'm even playing the same game. I have been playing a long time and have been in many PvP guilds over the years. None of them were battleground guilds. They didn't even have battleground nights. Most of the PvP feedback I have seen is Cyrodiil related with some dueling, some battlegrounds, and some ToT mixed in.

kyle.wilson · September 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

The last dev I saw in PVP was @ZOS_Wrobel, A long, long time ago.
Does the current PVP lead play in Cyrodiil at all? We've had stuck in combat bugs for years.

kyle.wilson · September 24

copy

MidniteOwl1913 · September 24

I'm not a fan of PVP and but I think that they are entitled to a playstyle that they love. I just wish that PVP wasn't so often "balanced" on the back of PVE.

I use cloak, I use Azure Blight, and Tanished, in PVE. I haven't even farmed Pyre because I loathe IA so much and now I guess I won't bother. Why even create things to be useful if 10 minutes later they are such a problem you have make them useless?

ForumSavant · September 26

If the devs don't add a real MMR system to BGs, which everyone wants and nobody is even arguing about, then you will know for sure they don't read/care about the feedback, even though they make threads specifically for them.

Jaimeh · September 26

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the team does look at feedback and play the game. We also make sure to send things that are hot button issues to the teams. So they are aware and reading. Sometimes feedback is able to be reacted upon quickly, other times, we may need more info on top of what PTS provided. But that feedback does not go to waste. We keep that feedback and reference when we see how more players react and can make better calls on how we can better adjust.

And sometimes the changes asked take longer to implement than the PTS cycle. Feedback and reaction to it varies, but we are always looking at it and discussing changes.

As for the callout of Azureblight and Pyrebrand, we are escalating those again as we see that feedback. I read two other threads on Azureblight before coming into this thread.

@ZOS_Kevin there have also been countless posts about the NB shadowy disguise changes, so I hope these can get escalated too, and that the dev team can reconsider all the changes to the skill.

M1SHAAN · September 26

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Does the current PVP lead play in Cyrodiil at all? We've had stuck in combat bugs for years.

From what I understand they've been actively working on fixing that bug, it seems like it's surprisingly difficult to fix. From an Ask us Anyting on Reddit from a few months ago:

u/decairn wrote:

When will the always in combat bug be fixed? Please, and the entire game population thanks you.

u/ZOS_RichLambert wrote:

We actually just had a game jam session and one of the teams devoted their entire project to tackling this long standing bug...

kyle.wilson · September 27

M1SHAAN wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Does the current PVP lead play in Cyrodiil at all? We've had stuck in combat bugs for years.

From what I understand they've been actively working on fixing that bug, it seems like it's surprisingly difficult to fix. From an Ask us Anyting on Reddit from a few months ago:

u/decairn wrote:

When will the always in combat bug be fixed? Please, and the entire game population thanks you.

u/ZOS_RichLambert wrote:

We actually just had a game jam session and one of the teams devoted their entire project to tackling this long standing bug...

It's really annoying that more information is coming from devs on reddit than this forum.