AB nerf lowers accessibility
Mastercris91
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The nerf to Azureblight in PVE is pretty much a damage nerf across the board for most hard content. When we look at fights like Reef Guardian, Bahsei, Lylanal and Turlassil, all fights in Lucent Citadel, the damage nerf will severely increase the difficulty of these fights for mid tier groups, while the high end with better uptimes and better rotations will find a way around it.
What you basically do is you lower the clear rates for these fights.
Realistically speaking you have rarely more than 4 targets in PVE for a longer period, so the top damage is rarely ever hit. So here is what I suggest. We have too many sets that nobody ever uses.
Make Azureblight PVP only.
Buff Azureblight for PvP and let it have the scaling it currently has for PVE so it’s effective against Ball groups, I’d go even further and made the set hit 12 people and scale up to 12 people, but I know this might take a huge toll on server performance.
Change one of the many dead sets this game has to a mini Azureblight, that only works on monsters, scales up to 4 targets and reaches a lower cap sooner, comparable to what live Azureblight would reach on 4 targets. I’d also make it scale really slow for 1 and 2 targets, to prevent it from being overused.
What you basically do is you lower the clear rates for these fights.
Realistically speaking you have rarely more than 4 targets in PVE for a longer period, so the top damage is rarely ever hit. So here is what I suggest. We have too many sets that nobody ever uses.
Make Azureblight PVP only.
Buff Azureblight for PvP and let it have the scaling it currently has for PVE so it’s effective against Ball groups, I’d go even further and made the set hit 12 people and scale up to 12 people, but I know this might take a huge toll on server performance.
Change one of the many dead sets this game has to a mini Azureblight, that only works on monsters, scales up to 4 targets and reaches a lower cap sooner, comparable to what live Azureblight would reach on 4 targets. I’d also make it scale really slow for 1 and 2 targets, to prevent it from being overused.
Hail Sithis
6
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Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a nerf for trash packs too. Quite a few adds in trash pulls have low health so when they die it's less damage for Azureblight. Sure, the set was pretty damn strong, but the nerf is way too much. It just needed a ~15% reduction in base damage and only work on monsters only. Or some other slight change to keep it as a ball group counter.
God only knows why the nerf was this weird.Edited by Blackbird_V on 24 September 2024 12:57Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.2 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭Accessibility and challenge are antithetical. Either you make the content difficult enough to be a challenge or you make it easy enough for everyone to clear it. It is fair to argue the change of the set, but a decreased clear rate of trial content is not a legitimate argument. If it were so, you could justify any degree of overpoweredness by setting the worst imaginable players as standard. There were many discussions on the topic during the first iterations of Oakensoul. If the devs find that a set trivializes content too much, and the redesign clearly implies PvE was considered in this, then content difficulty is consciously adjusted. So I'd recommend sticking to the theoretical and practical evaluation of the set, rather than saying "we will no longer be able to punch above our weight".4
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sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
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Set change fatigue kills the game. Removing sets that make the early stages of endgame accessible kills the game.
There's a lot of groups now on a 4 week timer to get their clears...6 -
alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭Accessibility and challenge are antithetical. Either you make the content difficult enough to be a challenge or you make it easy enough for everyone to clear it. It is fair to argue the change of the set, but a decreased clear rate of trial content is not a legitimate argument. If it were so, you could justify any degree of overpoweredness by setting the worst imaginable players as standard. There were many discussions on the topic during the first iterations of Oakensoul. If the devs find that a set trivializes content too much, and the redesign clearly implies PvE was considered in this, then content difficulty is consciously adjusted. So I'd recommend sticking to the theoretical and practical evaluation of the set, rather than saying "we will no longer be able to punch above our weight".
While I agree with the general sentiment, the current OPness of Azure is purely ZOS made. They buffed the set out of the blue and by enabling it to be efficiently used by multiple players in the group they drive it's popularity. And now they're nerfing it, also out of the blue. This going back and forth is completely pointless...5 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭
Why can't the chosen hero be OP? Sounds like ZOS hates AOE anythingMaking a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.2 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.3 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.3 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.
Got obliterated because in strict optimised groups, DK's were getting like 200k DPS. vAS+2 speedrun is something like 1:30. The nerf probably kills the set for 99.99% of players though.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackbird_V wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.
Got obliterated because in strict optimised groups, DK's were getting like 200k DPS. vAS+2 speedrun is something like 1:30. The nerf probably kills the set for 99.99% of players though.
Shhhh1 -
BananaBender✭✭✭Blackbird_V wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.
Got obliterated because in strict optimised groups, DK's were getting like 200k DPS. vAS+2 speedrun is something like 1:30. The nerf probably kills the set for 99.99% of players though.
Pyrebrand did like a few thousand DPS more than Runecarver... which is an AoE set... It was by no means overpowered nor did it enable any significantly faster strats or cheeses. It was a really good set but it only functioned in single target and wasn't even much better than AoE counterparts.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackbird_V wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.
Got obliterated because in strict optimised groups, DK's were getting like 200k DPS. vAS+2 speedrun is something like 1:30. The nerf probably kills the set for 99.99% of players though.
Yep pyrebrand definitely got the world record in a comp with 1 dk, 2 arcs, and the rest templars.
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/70 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blackbird_V wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »This is a bit of a tangent that the Azureblight nerf has made me think of.
PvE is a place where having a bunch of powerful thematic set procs is awesome. And yet, the current most powerful sets are boring stat buffs or debuffs such as Perfected Coral Riptide, Martial Knowledge, Deadly Strike, etc.
Why not have sets which make DKs produce way more flames, give Sorcs chain lighting bolts, allow Nightblade to have shadow clones mimicking their attacks…? This should be the gear that provides us top tier damage. Azureblight at least looked cool.
PvP on the other hand is a place where player skill and combat mastery should be the primary focus. Set procs shouldn’t do the work for you. And yet, this is where stacking specific set procs is incredibly powerful. Rush of Agony, Vicious Death, Dark Convergence, multiple single target procs to gank, Tarnished Nightmare… there are so many options.
It just seems totally backwards.
We had a flamey dk set.
It got massacred this patch too because PvP.
Got obliterated because in strict optimised groups, DK's were getting like 200k DPS. vAS+2 speedrun is something like 1:30. The nerf probably kills the set for 99.99% of players though.
The bugfix to remove crit was a much bigger loss (at least in PvE) than the damage nerf of 18%.
The high damage in content may have drawn attention to the issue, but since it is a scaling set, it should not have been able to crit in the first place. It should not have gone live the way it was. It was overperforming by around 35-45% with optimized trial PvE builds due to this issue.
I wish they'd have fixed that first before deciding whether to nerf it. I don't understand how one can properly do a balance pass without first assessing its performance when working as intended.0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Accessibility and challenge are antithetical. Either you make the content difficult enough to be a challenge or you make it easy enough for everyone to clear it. It is fair to argue the change of the set, but a decreased clear rate of trial content is not a legitimate argument. If it were so, you could justify any degree of overpoweredness by setting the worst imaginable players as standard. There were many discussions on the topic during the first iterations of Oakensoul. If the devs find that a set trivializes content too much, and the redesign clearly implies PvE was considered in this, then content difficulty is consciously adjusted. So I'd recommend sticking to the theoretical and practical evaluation of the set, rather than saying "we will no longer be able to punch above our weight".
While I agree with the general sentiment, the current OPness of Azure is purely ZOS made. They buffed the set out of the blue and by enabling it to be efficiently used by multiple players in the group they drive it's popularity. And now they're nerfing it, also out of the blue. This going back and forth is completely pointless...
You either get it or you don't...0 -
necro_the_crafter✭✭✭✭Buff Plaguebreak then, or make PvP version of Azure as you have done with Macabre Vintage.0
